Injury Creates Starting Opportunity For Former Patriots Quarterback (Mac Jones)

[Wozzy]

I’ve wondered about Kirk Cousins as a ceiling for him, it is possible if he gets the right coaching and circumstances in the next few years.

Regarding the turnovers, it was so weird to see that from him esp. his second year (the one without the OC). At Alabama Saban coached him to not take risks and to avoid turnovers at ALL costs, and in Mac’s senior, Nat Champion year he passed for 41 TDs with only 4 INTs (!). It was so weird to see him go from that to throwing it up for grabs at NE, I used to wonder if he was being coached to take more risk by Patricia, maybe Patricia forgot turnovers weren’t the desired outcome on offense.

We should slow our roll on Mac… he might implode. If Geno Smith can figure it out after a decade there’s hope for anyone. Bad to average QB’s especially have long shelf lives. Other position groups aren’t so lucky.

 

[upstater1]

Yes, he cracked under pressure here, but don't forget that he had an absurd amount of pressure here that he would never have in San Fran or anywhere else. He had a head coach who refused to speak to him and helped to manufacture a QB controversy rather than to back him up. He had a defensive coordinator as an offensive coordinator and QB coach who knew less about the position than he did. He had no offensive line or receivers.

I don't think Jones is ever going to be a top QB, but in Shanahan's system he can be above average.

I think you have things flipped here.

Patriots fans have a habit of seeing 2019-2023 in reverse.

The coach no longer had as much control as we'd like to think, not over decision-making, not over who were his coaches, not even over his defense.

The coach made the determination that the QB was not very good, certainly not starter quality, and yet the owner was deeply invested.

The coach had the owner install a guy who overrode coaching decisions and corroded authority.

Eliot Wolf was given more power in personnel decisions.

We had defensive coaches who were promised the HC job early in the season effectively freeze out the head coach, in what was widely described as a mutiny.

The thing was built to fail.

Mac Jones has not done anything in the ensuing 2 years which would make you think he's a possible starter in the NFL.

 

[signbabybrady]

Thelonius, you are wasting your time trying to convince a cultist troll to interpret your words as you intend them to be interpreted.

As you see he takes any expression of criticism, no matter how correct it is, of his hoodie-wearing hero as hate.

His narcissism makes him think he's doing the world a service by publicly defending the honor of a man who shows he no longer cares about his public image.

EDIT: Nice to see that you caught on to the cultist troll after he told you he was listening to the voices in his stoner head instead of reading what you actually wrote.

This is rich coming from a guy who runs around a Patriots message board trashing the best parts of the dynasty and has zero room to accept any point of view other than Bill is the boogie man.

 

[signbabybrady]

Where there is zero such behavior, there will inevitably be "zero cause."

As for my being part of a "select group," I blush at the compliment.

Again you admit it. But next post you'll claim to have not said it. But you're clearly showing pride in being part of the haters club.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

IMO, Mac Jones is like a truth serum type of QB. He'll reveal how good your team is around the QB. He won't elevate anyone, but he won't kill it if you built it well. There's a glass ceiling on any team he quarterbacks because he simply can't make the plays needed from your QB to win at a high level, but I think he can keep the boat afloat on a good team. That profiles well as a backup role.

 

[signbabybrady]

Funny seeing the Bill cult moderating their opinions on Mac Jones. According to them not that long ago he was like the worst QB in the history of the NFL and Bill was forced by blackmail to draft him or something. They're not saying that anymore.

Now that he's in a good situation they must be getting nervous about the damage to their hoodied hero's legacy if he plays well. Or they're ready to give Bill all the credit for drafting him after all. Lmao.

Again you're the only one changing your stance on him the rest of us still think he sucks. You have been so dead set that no one other than Bill had anything to do with the pick so that you can blame him that you're preemptively trying to shift the conversation.

I hope things work out for him and based on his rookie year I wouldn't completely write him off (every players journeys vary and sometimes paths come in unexpected ways). But I'm going to need to see a lot more before I flip my opinion that he sucks. Right now my opinion would be if Shanahan even considers Mac over Purdy Mac will wind up getting him fired too.

 

[Rob0729]

He sucked after week 13 as a rookie, that’s who he was ever after. That’s reality.

He didn't suck after week 13 as a rookie. In fact, he had his best game of the year in week 16.

 

[Rob0729]

I think you have things flipped here.

Patriots fans have a habit of seeing 2019-2023 in reverse.

The coach no longer had as much control as we'd like to think, not over decision-making, not over who were his coaches, not even over his defense.

The coach made the determination that the QB was not very good, certainly not starter quality, and yet the owner was deeply invested.

The coach had the owner install a guy who overrode coaching decisions and corroded authority.

Eliot Wolf was given more power in personnel decisions.

We had defensive coaches who were promised the HC job early in the season effectively freeze out the head coach, in what was widely described as a mutiny.

The thing was built to fail.

Mac Jones has not done anything in the ensuing 2 years which would make you think he's a possible starter in the NFL.

LOL! You are seeing it in reverse. Kraft didn't force Belichick to make Matt Patricia offensive coordinator. In fact, Kraft was very vocal that he was against it, but gave Belichick the benefit of that decision because he was a Super Bowl winning coach. If Kraft was telling Belichick how to run the team, Patricia and Judge would never have been running the offense in 2022.

Also, Kraft sided with Belichick with Brady.

So let's say your accounts are right and Belichick didn't think Mac was starter quality, what he did was every worse and more damning. Belichick saw Mac wasn't starter worthy and decide that screw it! He was going to assemble the worst offense in he could possibly make to show the owner. If Mac is that bad, he was going to show Kraft by giving Mac no talent to work with, an offensive coordinator with no offensive experience and have him try to implement an offense that he nor anyone on the coaching staff had any experience running, gave Mac a QB coach who knew nothing about QB coaching, an o-line coach that ran a system that didn't mesh with the offensive system they were trying to run, helped to fuel the fire of a QB controversy when he should have either backed Mac or benched him, and then in the following year kept on starting and benching him game after game.

I don't think you are making the case you think. What Belichick did in 2022 is even more damning to him if he didn't think Mac was starter quality. His job as head coach was to build an offense to hide his QB's deficiencies if he doesn't think he is up to snuff. What Belichick did was exploit Mac's weaknesses and hid his strengths.

The Mayo thing was done the season after Belichick should have been fired. Any other coach would have been fired after the 2022 season. In fact, Kraft's biggest mistake other than making Mayo head coach was not firing Belichick after the 2022 season. But then again, without Belichick as head coach in 2023 would the Patriots have finished high enough to draft Drake Maye?

And BTW, if Mac succeeds in San Fran, Belichick is going to look even worse for thinking Mac wasn't a starting quality QB.

 

[sb1]

LOL! You are seeing it in reverse. Kraft didn't force Belichick to make Matt Patricia offensive coordinator. In fact, Kraft was very vocal that he was against it, but gave Belichick the benefit of that decision because he was a Super Bowl winning coach. If Kraft was telling Belichick how to run the team, Patricia and Judge would never have been running the offense in 2022.

Also, Kraft sided with Belichick with Brady.

So let's say your accounts are right and Belichick didn't think Mac was starter quality, what he did was every worse and more damning. Belichick saw Mac wasn't starter worthy and decide that screw it! He was going to assemble the worst offense in he could possibly make to show the owner. If Mac is that bad, he was going to show Kraft by giving Mac no talent to work with, an offensive coordinator with no offensive experience and have him try to implement an offense that he nor anyone on the coaching staff had any experience running, gave Mac a QB coach who knew nothing about QB coaching, an o-line coach that ran a system that didn't mesh with the offensive system they were trying to run, helped to fuel the fire of a QB controversy when he should have either backed Mac or benched him, and then in the following year kept on starting and benching him game after game.

I don't think you are making the case you think. What Belichick did in 2022 is even more damning to him if he didn't think Mac was starter quality. His job as head coach was to build an offense to hide his QB's deficiencies if he doesn't think he is up to snuff. What Belichick did was exploit Mac's weaknesses and hid his strengths.

The Mayo thing was done the season after Belichick should have been fired. Any other coach would have been fired after the 2022 season. In fact, Kraft's biggest mistake other than making Mayo head coach was not firing Belichick after the 2022 season. But then again, without Belichick as head coach in 2023 would the Patriots have finished high enough to draft Drake Maye?

And BTW, if Mac succeeds in San Fran, Belichick is going to look even worse for thinking Mac wasn't a starting quality QB.

Yes 100%. I believe Bill embraced Jones but changed his mind later and tried to bail on a QB who HE drafted. That's not how the NFL works coach.

The voters for the NFL HOF are no doubt aware of this and they're just shaking their heads...

 

[sb1]

He didn't suck after week 13 as a rookie. In fact, he had his best game of the year in week 16.

The Bills game in week 15 was the only really bad one that he had. He was adequate to very good in the other weeks. Meh in the playoff game but he gets 0% of the blame for that outcome for obvious reasons.

 

[vicspats]

Mac Magic!!!!

 

[TheRainMaker]

Mac had some good throws with one of them right before halftime for a TD. Shanahan will put him in positions to succeed, but the real test will be when things don't go according to the script. This was where he got exposed in NE when the defense couldn't keep things close. Also, Jennings, Pearsall, Bourne and MVS are a pretty limited group. Kittle is doing his usual and taking games off.

 

[Rob0729]

The Bills game in week 15 was the only really bad one that he had. He was adequate to very good in the other weeks. Meh in the playoff game but he gets 0% of the blame for that outcome for obvious reasons.

Against Indy, he was mediocre one half and awesome the other.

 

[patfanken]

Is the company that makes Tom's wearable AI publicly traded?

Seriously, that was brilliant and clear, and the sort of thing he should do. I know everybody hates when he calls games... but just watching that clip gave me a clue (and I wish it gave everyone a clue) about the 2 parts of this stupid Bill (et al.)/Tom debate that had to work to make a dynasty.

He as much as said the team has to coach a QB well to get the best out of him... but then the other side is, how much "best" is in him (in Brady's case, all of it.)

Great clip. (I mean, this one, if it's not clickable in the quote above)

This is as good a clip on what it takes to be a good QB as I've heard. It's also a great explanation of the differences in QB development that young QB's get.

Tom Brady did NOT come to the Pats even close to fully developed or a star. Remember he sat his entire first year except for a few plays. He threw IIRC about 167 yds in that Rams superbowl and about 50 of them came in the last drive. We used to laugh at Peyton for performances like that when they won the superbowl. My biggest memory of his 3rd year was that he dedicated his off season that 9-7 year to NOT fumbling as much as he did in 02. I remember that it wasn't until over 10 years in that gave us "I know all the answers to the test" comment.

There is so much more than physical ability that makes up what makes up a good QB as Brady pointed out and just how LUCKY he was to come to a team that actually developed him. Few people remember that was Tom's QB coach his 2nd and 3rd years was Bill like he pointed out.

I hate it that too many fans want to give Tom the sole reason for the Pats success while he was here. Thank God Tom ISN'T one of them. He understands how football works.

 

[Bill Lee]

I think you have things flipped here.
...
We had defensive coaches who were promised the HC job early in the season effectively freeze out the head coach, in what was widely described as a mutiny.

I think you have things flipped here.

You had the GOAT coach in his 70s who preached about team-first working with a guy he drafted, a guy he coached as a player, a guy he trained as a coach and a guy he promoted above others.

If he was more self-aware he'd realize that his decision making and results were going to **** in the post-Brady era and the right thing to do was practice what he preached, put the team first and do everything he could to help Mayo be successful so his coaching tree would look good and he could move on to the next chapter in his life.

Instead what we got was a clear view of how much of a small-minded, self-absorbed, Bill-first, petty **** he can be.

It was such a clear view that no NFL team hired that GOAT coach after a full year of him being on the market.

The only job he could get was from a stagnant mid-level CFB program desperately hoping it could convert cash into success.

He took advantage of their desperation to grab their cash, not just for him but for his extended entourage of grifters.

It's hard for me to see how his life story doesn't get written as him losing his fastball as he aged then undermining if not destroying his legacy.

 

[Bill Lee]

I’ve wondered about Kirk Cousins as a ceiling for him, it is possible if he gets the right coaching and circumstances in the next few years.

During the draft Mac was comp'd to Derek Carr. Definitely a career backup, probably a mid-level starter, probably not a franchise QB.

However, I don't think it was a mistake to draft him, because such projections are often inaccurate.

Hitting on a 1st round QB is a huge advantage for a team if he can achieve that mid-level starter status or better, and you don't know till you play him where he'll end up.

He was more or less on track till the MP/JJ year, then the train jumped the tracks.

I can picture an alternate reality where Bill found good coaches and found good OL talent to put in front of him, and Mac became the next Derek Carr.

However Bill in essence did the opposite of that, and it all went to ****.

 

[Wozzy]

He didn't suck after week 13 as a rookie. In fact, he had his best game of the year in week 16.

Week 14 bye
*Colts: 2 interceptions, 57% completions
*Bills: 2 interceptions, 43% completions
*Jaguars: No turnovers
*Dolphins: 1 interception, 1 fumble
*Bills: 2 interceptions, 63% completions

This ^ sucks.

And no, an errorless game against Jacksonville, the worst record in the entire NFL and worst defense in 2021, does not diminish the suck.

 

[zydecochris]

During the draft Mac was comp'd to Derek Carr. Definitely a career backup, probably a mid-level starter, probably not a franchise QB.

However, I don't think it was a mistake to draft him, because such projections are often inaccurate.

Hitting on a 1st round QB is a huge advantage for a team if he can achieve that mid-level starter status or better, and you don't know till you play him where he'll end up.

He was more or less on track till the MP/JJ year, then the train jumped the tracks.

I can picture an alternate reality where Bill found good coaches and found good OL talent to put in front of him, and Mac became the next Derek Carr.

However Bill in essence did the opposite of that, and it all went to ****.

Good point, Derek Carr is probably a better comparison, a solid mid level starter with the right team and support around him. That is probably Mac's 4th floor ceiling with a great QB coach and a solid team.

But....I'm really excited by Drake Maye, I think we may have hit on our next franchise QB. I was amazed he showed such promise under such trying conditions last year (and, it has be be noted, stayed strong under similarly difficult, if not identical, conditions to what destroyed Mac's confidence and tenure with the Pats).

If you think about it, the Pats have really had pretty good luck with their recent post-Brady QB selections, we have spent two 1st picks (Drake and Mac) with only one in the top 12, and one late second pick (Garoppolo) and walked away with what appears to be a long term solution (Drake), a Derek Carr lite type with a decent career, (Garoppolo, although not so much at NE who had some other guy in place at QB), and a player that looked pretty good as a rookie and now seems like possibly/maybe (?) a decent back-up with better coaching (Mac).

In contrast, think about a team like the Jets and the draft capital they have spent on QBs. In the same period they have spent 4 first round draft picks with three in the top 5, 2 overall (Wilson), 3rd overall (Darnold), 5th overall (Sanchez), 18th (Pennington) plus three second round picks (Geno Smith, Christian Hackenburg, Kellen Clemens). That is a WHALE of an amount of draft capital, and not only do they still not have a solution at QB, one could argue the most successful of that passel of high picks (at least with NY) was Pennington. Smith and Darnold have had somewhat solid careers after leaving NY, but that is kind of the point in that NY got no return on their draft investment.

 

[signbabybrady]

LOL! You are seeing it in reverse. Kraft didn't force Belichick to make Matt Patricia offensive coordinator. In fact, Kraft was very vocal that he was against it, but gave Belichick the benefit of that decision because he was a Super Bowl winning coach. If Kraft was telling Belichick how to run the team, Patricia and Judge would never have been running the offense in 2022.

Also, Kraft sided with Belichick with Brady.

So let's say your accounts are right and Belichick didn't think Mac was starter quality, what he did was every worse and more damning. Belichick saw Mac wasn't starter worthy and decide that screw it! He was going to assemble the worst offense in he could possibly make to show the owner. If Mac is that bad, he was going to show Kraft by giving Mac no talent to work with, an offensive coordinator with no offensive experience and have him try to implement an offense that he nor anyone on the coaching staff had any experience running, gave Mac a QB coach who knew nothing about QB coaching, an o-line coach that ran a system that didn't mesh with the offensive system they were trying to run, helped to fuel the fire of a QB controversy when he should have either backed Mac or benched him, and then in the following year kept on starting and benching him game after game.

I don't think you are making the case you think. What Belichick did in 2022 is even more damning to him if he didn't think Mac was starter quality. His job as head coach was to build an offense to hide his QB's deficiencies if he doesn't think he is up to snuff. What Belichick did was exploit Mac's weaknesses and hid his strengths.

The Mayo thing was done the season after Belichick should have been fired. Any other coach would have been fired after the 2022 season. In fact, Kraft's biggest mistake other than making Mayo head coach was not firing Belichick after the 2022 season. But then again, without Belichick as head coach in 2023 would the Patriots have finished high enough to draft Drake Maye?

And BTW, if Mac succeeds in San Fran, Belichick is going to look even worse for thinking Mac wasn't a starting quality QB.

Yes 100%. I believe Bill embraced Jones but changed his mind later and tried to bail on a QB who HE drafted. That's not how the NFL works coach.

The voters for the NFL HOF are no doubt aware of this and they're just shaking their heads...

I think you have things flipped here.

You had the GOAT coach in his 70s who preached about team-first working with a guy he drafted, a guy he coached as a player, a guy he trained as a coach and a guy he promoted above others.

If he was more self-aware he'd realize that his decision making and results were going to **** in the post-Brady era and the right thing to do was practice what he preached, put the team first and do everything he could to help Mayo be successful so his coaching tree would look good and he could move on to the next chapter in his life.

Instead what we got was a clear view of how much of a small-minded, self-absorbed, Bill-first, petty **** he can be.

It was such a clear view that no NFL team hired that GOAT coach after a full year of him being on the market.

The only job he could get was from a stagnant mid-level CFB program desperately hoping it could convert cash into success.

He took advantage of their desperation to grab their cash, not just for him but for his extended entourage of grifters.

It's hard for me to see how his life story doesn't get written as him losing his fastball as he aged then undermining if not destroying his legacy.

More exaggerating and fabrication.

The way you feel the need to fill in the blanks with your own spins on what happened never ceases to amaze me.

 

[Wozzy]

The Bills game in week 15 was the only really bad one that he had. He was adequate to very good in the other weeks. Meh in the playoff game but he gets 0% of the blame for that outcome for obvious reasons.

Yeah, take away the 3 win Jaguars and Mac gave up two turnovers in every game and completed less than 60% of his passes. You know less about offense than defense, I didn’t think that was possible.