The Bill megathread (HC at UNC, girlfriend, etc.)

[signbabybrady]

I agree with much of that, but you ignore the fact that the person who put all of those good players around Brady was Belichick. And just as he deserves the blame for the rosters he created post Brady, he deserves the credit for the rosters he created during their 20 year dynasty run. Absolutely no one would try to make the case that Brady wasn’t the most important player on the patriots during his time there, but he could not have won those Super Bowls on his own, just as he couldn’t have won the one in Tampa Bay on his own , even though he was also the most important player to their success.

I believe you know this and are capable of acknowledging this, but your feud with signbabybrady makes you unwilling to acknowledge what any intelligent Patriot fan knows, that it took Belichick, Brady, and a large number of very good to great players and coaches to have a 20 year Dynasty run. So do everyone, yourself included, a big favor and be the bigger man and put an end to this. Acknowledge what you certainly know is the truth, put signbabybrady on ignore, and give everyone else the mercy we all deserve. It would be a good way to start this season.

Good luck I hope you do better than me.

 

[h0c2000]

Matt Vautour: Unrecognizable Bill Belichick risking his legacy

Former Patriots coach Bill Belichick has become everything he used to preach against.

www.masslive.com

The more the real Belichick gets exposed to the light, the more he looks whiny, petty and more than a little sad.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Gotta give her credit - she's making $$ and her seeking the trademark on "Gold Digger" may indeed be profitable

Whether all of this helps or hurts Belichick's legacy remains to be seen

I'm not thinking the Vegas odds are favoring Belichick at this point on that one

 

[Bill Lee]

I don't think B vs B should be an either/or argument. That's been the problem. They were both important, just as Brady said.

I don't really like going into the wayback machine, but for you I will make an exception since I agree with what you wrote.

The fracture happened as Bill chose to stick with his "move on a year too early", "no one is above the team" mantras late in Brady's tenure here.

I could see a theoretical scenario where Bill chose to make an exception to those rules due to Brady's obvious greatness, but only in theory.

Bill already thought he had a path to move on from Brady earlier with Jimmy G, but Tommy outplayed his expectations in 2017 and 2018.

From that point on, it seems both guys no longer were very comfortable with each other, and both knew the end was not too far in the future.

Fans would have loved the outcome where both Bill and Brady faded into the sunset together, but IMO by the end neither guy was up for that.

To me it's bittersweet that it ended the way it did, because it's clear to me that Brady joining Tampa in 2020 was indeed a "no-brainer".

He knew he'd be joining a team with Godwin, Evans and Miller already waiting for him, then Gronk, AB and Lenny joining shortly thereafter.

How did he know? Well he did get caught on the Miami owner's yacht before he was a FA so we know he was being pro-active.

At the same time Tom would not have won anything with the 2020 Patriots WRs, namely Damiere Byrd, N'Keal Harry and Jakobi Meyers.

Tampa put their money where their mouth was by putting two years and $50M on the table when no one else was offering him that.

Tampa took their chance and made it a no-brainer, BB had the chance a year earlier to extend him on agreeable terms but didn't.

I don't really see why/how to assign blame, it feels to me more like things had just run their course.

If Bill had extended Tom late in his career neither would be happy and the team wouldn't have been good.

Tom was enough to put Tampa over the hump in 2020 but in 2021 he had lost his locker room and his wife, so another bittersweet ending.

Now what we have left is Bill and Robert more or less roasting each other with Tommy actually getting roasted live by some of the best comedians in the world.

Not a very glorious end, says I. No one is covering themselves in glory, IMO.

Appropriate to the spirit of this thread was Tom taking a huge shot at Bill at the roast:

“Everybody asks me which ring is my favorite. I used to say, ‘The next one.’ But now that I’m retired, my favorite ring is the camera that caught Coach Belichick slinking out of that poor girl’s house at 6 a.m. a few months ago.”

The funniest part to me is that she's not poor any more.

Ref: The MVP’s & Best Jokes From The Roast Of Tom Brady

And now the HC and owner are taking swipes at each other. WTF?!?

It NEVER should have come to this.

Both should have just let the past be the past, but it seems neither are disciplined enough to do so.

 

[signbabybrady]

I don't really like going into the wayback machine, but for you I will make an exception since I agree with what you wrote.

The fracture happened as Bill chose to stick with his "move on a year too early", "no one is above the team" mantras late in Brady's tenure here.

I could see a theoretical scenario where Bill chose to make an exception to those rules due to Brady's obvious greatness, but only in theory.

Bill already thought he had a path to move on from Brady earlier with Jimmy G, but Tommy outplayed his expectations in 2017 and 2018.

From that point on, it seems both guys no longer were very comfortable with each other, and both knew the end was not too far in the future.

Fans would have loved the outcome where both Bill and Brady faded into the sunset together, but IMO by the end neither guy was up for that.

To me it's bittersweet that it ended the way it did, because it's clear to me that Brady joining Tampa in 2020 was indeed a "no-brainer".

He knew he'd be joining a team with Godwin, Evans and Miller already waiting for him, then Gronk, AB and Lenny joining shortly thereafter.

How did he know? Well he did get caught on the Miami owner's yacht before he was a FA so we know he was being pro-active.

At the same time Tom would not have won anything with the 2020 Patriots WRs, namely Damiere Byrd, N'Keal Harry and Jakobi Meyers.

Tampa put their money where their mouth was by putting two years and $50M on the table when no one else was offering him that.

Tampa took their chance and made it a no-brainer, BB had the chance a year earlier to extend him on agreeable terms but didn't.

I don't really see why/how to assign blame, it feels to me more like things had just run their course.

If Bill had extended Tom late in his career neither would be happy and the team wouldn't have been good.

Tom was enough to put Tampa over the hump in 2020 but in 2021 he had lost his locker room and his wife, so another bittersweet ending.

Now what we have left is Bill and Robert more or less roasting each other with Tommy actually getting roasted live by some of the best comedians in the world.

Not a very glorious end, says I. No one is covering themselves in glory, IMO.

Appropriate to the spirit of this thread was Tom taking a huge shot at Bill at the roast:



The funniest part to me is that she's not poor any more.

Ref: The MVP’s & Best Jokes From The Roast Of Tom Brady



Both should have just let the past be the past, but it seems neither are disciplined enough to do so.

Now you decided to wake up this morning and put a reasonable take too.

I will say Bill never chose to cut him a year to early pretty much the opposite. Brady played out his whole deal and Bill likely would have used the franchise tag too if Kraft hadn't given it away. And Brady obviously thought Bill would use it otherwise he wouldn't have made it a demand.

Bill should have given him everything he wanted a year to early. The biggest mistake of Bill's whole career. Brady had just turned 42 and I think Bill just thought he'd be able to resign him in February and should have never called his bluff. But we also don't know all the details of those negotiations and Brady wanted to be locked up until 45 for years already and he may have already decided '19 was his last year.

 

[Bill Lee]

Bill should have given him everything he wanted a year to early. The biggest mistake of Bill's whole career. Brady had just turned 42 and I think Bill just thought he'd be able to resign him in February and should have never called his bluff. But we also don't know all the details of those negotiations and Brady wanted to be locked up until 45 for years already and he may have already decided '19 was his last year.

Unfortunately that is one big reason why things don't look great for late-period Bill.

Most fans feel that the team had over-achieved in 2018. Then the brain trust tried to keep most of the band together in 2019. As unlikely as it seems, if they had committed to Tommy by extending him at fair-market rates early in the infamous summer of 2018 then maybe 2019 would have turned out better, but we'll never know. If not, 2020 would have been the start of a rebuild but at least that happens with Tommy on board. That probably means 2020 is another bad season, probably 2021 as well. Maybe we still end up with Mac Jones and maybe that means he starts a year later so is more mature but perhaps Tommy gets benched just to see what the kid can do. Yet no we have consensus that Mac just isn't NFL starter material so we're probably gonna have another Jones vs Zappe type situation.

From the fan's point of view we probably don't get better results, but at least it's more watchable if we have Tommy instead of Cam Newton, and for those who are big Brady fans that time line is a huge improvement compared to watching him go to Tampa.

In this alternate time line we probably don't have so many Tom vs Bill arguments since both end up sucking together.

Funny enough, from the same roast, BB's biggest shot at Brady was:

It was hard to butt heads with Tom because he was so far up Alex Guerrero’s ass.

I know it's likely that a writer wrote that, but it's hard to not read too much into the selection of that joke nor its delivery. It is line with my feeling that in summer 2018, both guys were ready to move on.

 

[sb1]

I agree with much of that, but you ignore the fact that the person who put all of those good players around Brady was Belichick. And just as he deserves the blame for the rosters he created post Brady, he deserves the credit for the rosters he created during their 20 year dynasty run.

While that is true…Brady’s presence also let Bill get away with a margin for error that no other coach/GM had. That’s a massive advantage. As is Bill having the freedom to focus on what he did best on defense.

He was one of the all time great coaches before Brady left and that is what his legacy is built on. But even the coaching part cratered after he pushed Tom out the door. I said during the Covid season that the team was poorly coached that year and it only got worse.

And no way no how Tom allows Bill to put Matt Patricia in charge of offense. That’s when he lost me for good.

Absolutely no one would try to make the case that Brady wasn’t the most important player on the patriots during his time there, but he could not have won those Super Bowls on his own,

Brady would have won multiple titles here with Pete or any other great coach which Bill was. I question whether Bill would have won any. Only Brady was his guy at QB. Not just a QB…a savant.

just as he couldn’t have won the one in Tampa Bay on his own , even though he was also the most important player to their success.

Well football is a team sport but I don’t think it’s crazy to say he was the difference between them winning a championship and some other team doing so.

I believe you know this and are capable of acknowledging this, but your feud with signbabybrady makes you unwilling to acknowledge what any intelligent Patriot fan knows, that it took Belichick, Brady, and a large number of very good to great players and coaches to have a 20 year Dynasty run. So do everyone, yourself included, a big favor and be the bigger man and put an end to this. Acknowledge what you certainly know is the truth, put signbabybrady on ignore,

Did that a while ago. Invited him to do the same but he refused. Says it all. Any tiny bit of objectivity is “hating”… lmao. So easy to trigger. The dumb is strong in that one.

 

[signbabybrady]

Unfortunately that is one big reason why things don't look great for late-period Bill.

Most fans feel that the team had over-achieved in 2018. Then the brain trust tried to keep most of the band together in 2019. As unlikely as it seems, if they had committed to Tommy by extending him at fair-market rates early in the infamous summer of 2018 then maybe 2019 would have turned out better, but we'll never know. If not, 2020 would have been the start of a rebuild but at least that happens with Tommy on board. That probably means 2020 is another bad season, probably 2021 as well. Maybe we still end up with Mac Jones and maybe that means he starts a year later so is more mature but perhaps Tommy gets benched just to see what the kid can do. Yet no we have consensus that Mac just isn't NFL starter material so we're probably gonna have another Jones vs Zappe type situation.

From the fan's point of view we probably don't get better results, but at least it's more watchable if we have Tommy instead of Cam Newton, and for those who are big Brady fans that time line is a huge improvement compared to watching him go to Tampa.

In this alternate time line we probably don't have so many Tom vs Bill arguments since both end up sucking together.

Funny enough, from the same roast, BB's biggest shot at Brady was:



I know it's likely that a writer wrote that, but it's hard to not read too much into the selection of that joke nor its delivery. It is line with my feeling that in summer 2018, both guys were ready to move on.

That's the thing though in summer of 2018 he would have been locking up a 41 2 years early and through 45. At least that's what Tom wanted at the time. Not completely unjustified for the greatest QB but also a tough sell to any GM (& the franchise tag was still a possibility).

To me where Bill really screwed up was forcing him to play the lame duck year the summer of '19 he should have done whatever he could at that point. Especially when the no tag talk started.

 

[Triumph]

Several Sports Icons Expected To Attend Bill Belichick's College Coaching Debut

Michael Jordan is among the numerous sports stars who will reportedly attend Bill Belichick's first game as North Carolina's head coach.

nesn.com

Interest is high.

This is exactly what UNC was looking for.

Prime time exposure for their football program.

 

[mnpatfan]

Looking forward to the UNC game tonight because the opponent is not a total cupcake.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Gonna be weird seeing BB on a different sideline. Pulling for him. Pulling for UNC.

Bunny can go play with her Easy Bake Oven.

 

[1960Pats]

Gonna be weird seeing BB on a different sideline. Pulling for him. Pulling for UNC.

Bunny can go play with her Easy Bake Oven.

I don't get why a Pats fan would root against Bill. I didn't like the way it ended here but we had the best run in NYFL history.

I haven't recorded a college game for a long time but I'll record this one, unless it interferes with other shows I want to record. Then I'll watch it live.

 

[sb1]

I blame the owners son if UNC loses tonight

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't get why a Pats fan would root against Bill. I didn't like the way it ended here but we had the best run in NYFL history.

I haven't recorded a college game for a long time but I'll record this one, unless it interferes with other shows I want to record. Then I'll watch it live.

Bill did what most old coaches do in their last year or two on the job which is suck. The pro game passed him by. Maybe the college game breathes some life into his coaching career.

 

[sb1]

Bill did what most old coaches do in their last year or two on the job which is suck. The pro game passed him by. Maybe the college game breathes some life into his coaching career.

Careful. That gets called “hating” by some around here lmao. #soft

 

[Bill Lee]

That's the thing though in summer of 2018 he would have been locking up a 41 2 years early and through 45. At least that's what Tom wanted at the time. Not completely unjustified for the greatest QB but also a tough sell to any GM (& the franchise tag was still a possibility).

To me where Bill really screwed up was forcing him to play the lame duck year the summer of '19 he should have done whatever he could at that point. Especially when the no tag talk started.

I personally was OK with Bill making the call to move on from Tom. As above IMO I thought the team needed a major rebuild after 2018 and could see why the brain trust was thinking paying Tom franchise QB money during a rebuild that he probably would not see the end of didn't make a lot of sense.

I was surprised by the off-season before the 2019-2020 season. I was expecting Bill would find an under-valued QB that had some upside to his game. That's the kind of move a GOAT coach would be able to make work. I was not expecting we'd get a guy like Cam Newton who clearly had no upside left. We were waiting most of the off-season to see what rabbit Bill would pull out of his hat. Instead, Bill pulled a turd out of his butt.

In 2021 we can debate if the Krafts "meddled" with Bill, or if the Krafts felt Bill was losing his fastball and they needed to try to help him not make more dumb moves like Cam Newton and N'Keal Harry. Maybe they leaned on Bill to take Mac Jones, but maybe they felt they had to prevent Bill from taking a defensive player and trying to make another retread like Cam Newton work at QB while their franchise circled the drain.

2022 brought us the MP, JJ and Sons "era". That's where Bill's decision making process has broken down. It's clear he's really pulling stuff out of his butt by then. If he has decided he has to surround himself with loyalists to counter the Krafts, well, that's a dumb decision because he simply can't defeat the ownership. If he "wins" he gets fired anyway. The wise and honorable thing to do is to leave and find a job elsewhere. The foolish and dishonorable thing to do is take the money and watch Rome burn. If he wanted to create chaos to spite the Krafts, he clearly didn't realize how much of that would blow back on him. The bad judgement along with the creation of mistrust is IMO the primary reason why other owners wouldn't hire him once he did leave.

 

[Kdo5]

Actually interested in watching this game.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Actually interested in watching this game.

You and millions and millions of others - that is why the game is prime time on Monday night even though neither team will be talked about come the college playoffs.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Careful. That gets called “hating” by some around here lmao. #soft

I don't give a f--k. Bring it on. It's what happened.

 

[Betterthanmost]

LFG!!!. I am excited for tonight.