The Bill megathread (HC at UNC, girlfriend, etc.)

[XLIX]

Wozzy literally thinks he's the only person on this sub who ever played the game at any level

Yeah, it is a very strange chest thumping. I would bet a lot of us, myself included, played at the high school level.

 

[signbabybrady]

Because the model stopped working. Bill was an anomaly and it was becoming obvious that the rest of the league had finally evolved past Bill's method of working the post free agency era and Bill had no interest in giving it up so that he could compete and having a sophisticated personnel department.

Also results in the NFL tend tolag

It worked from 2000-2013/14. The great drafting and free agencies from 09-14 set the table for the 14-18 run. But even by like 2018 people were saying "you know the Patriots aren't all that deep and a lot of their drafts recently had kinda flopped. It just kept compounding for years without a correction until it was unsustainable.

You don't watch someone be unable to competently draft and restock the team from 2015-2023 and say "yeah we should keep driving into this ditch".

Vrabel is a modern coach, he's never going to subscribe to that model because it's archaic and he understands what the teams he's competing with have in place.

You guys always play fast and lose with the causation vs correlation

 

[lancerman]

You guys always play fast and lose with the causation vs correlation

It's not that fast and loose when the sentiment has been widespread for nearly a decade man. This isn't just a Patriots fan observation.

 

[signbabybrady]

It's not that fast and loose when the sentiment has been widespread for nearly a decade man. This isn't just a Patriots fan observation.

You'll never know if you don't try it with someone else. Like I said I bet Vrabel wouldn't mind a similar set up. We win 6 SBs doing things one way and we're just tossing everything out to follow some generic status the NFL decided is best.

 

[Wozzy]

Wozzy literally thinks he's the only person on this sub who ever played the game at any level

No, just the fools propping this thread up… there’s like 2 or 3 of you.

 

[lancerman]

You'll never know if you don't try it with someone else. Like I said I bet Vrabel wouldn't mind a similar set up. We 6 SBs doing things one way and we're just tossing everything out to follow some generic status the NFL decided is best.

3 of those Super Bowls were over 20 years old. The other 3 were from drafts between 09-14 that set them up.

Since 2014, these were who the Pats drafted with their top draft pick with Belichick as the HC.
-Malcolm Brown
-Cyrus Jones
-Derek Rivers
-Isaiah Wynn
-N'Keal Harry
-Kyle Dugger
-Mac Jones
-Cole Strange
-Christian Gonzalez

That's 9 guys where only 2 aren't disappointments. Dugger and Gonzalez. Only one of them looks like he might be anything special.

 

[lancerman]

No, just the fools propping this thread up… there’s like 2 or 3 of you.

Wozzy did you even play in college

 

[Wozzy]

Yeah, it is a very strange chest thumping. I would bet a lot of us, myself included, played at the high school level.

Team manager doesn’t count…

 

[signbabybrady]

3 of those Super Bowls were over 20 years old. The other 3 were from drafts between 09-14 that set them up.

Since 2014, these were who the Pats drafted with their top draft pick with Belichick as the HC.
-Malcolm Brown
-Cyrus Jones
-Derek Rivers
-Isaiah Wynn
-N'Keal Harry
-Kyle Dugger
-Mac Jones
-Cole Strange
-Christian Gonzalez

That's 9 guys where only 2 aren't disappointments. Dugger and Gonzalez. Only one of them looks like he might be anything special.

Jesus all you guys ever obsess over is the Draft. That's just one piece of team building.

 

[Wozzy]

Jesus all you guys ever obsess over is the Draft. That's just one piece of team building.

They also fail to acknowledge almost all of those picks were the end of the draft. Derek Rivers? He was taken in the third round for fck’s sakes… now we’re including him with the “first’s?”

Agenda much….

 

[lancerman]

Jesus all you guys ever obsess over is the Draft. That's just one piece of team building.

No people don't only obsess with the draft. Plenty of us in this thread have brought up free agents like Sanu, Smith, Chandler. Or losing guys like Joe Thuney. Or extending a bunch of old vets on defense who were in decline.

This is why these discussions are frustrating. Someone says something and you act like that's the only thing people have talked about to pretend people are being myopic to bolster your point.

 

[signbabybrady]

No people don't only obsess with the draft. Plenty of us in this thread have brought up free agents like Sanu, Smith, Chandler. Or losing guys like Joe Thuney. Or extending a bunch of old vets on defense who were in decline.

This is why these discussions are frustrating. Someone says something and you act like that's the only thing people have talked about to pretend people are being myopic to bolster your point.

I don't really care to debate these stupid things over and over you all know my opinion. But if you guys insist on repeating the same dumb things I'm going to keep calling you out for it. If I've started making it black and white it's because you nuts come out from every corner and it's just easier to keep things one way or the other.

 

[lancerman]

I don't really care to debate these stupid things over and over you all know my opinion. But if you guys insist on repeating the same dumb things I'm going to keep calling you out for it. If I've started making it black and white it's because you nuts come out from every corner and it's just easier to keep things one way or the other.

Call us out if you disagree and have a point to make, but don't frame it as "you only bring this up", when it is far from the only aspect that myself and others have brought up in this matter". It's a bad faith argument.

And now you have that mental midget Wozzy all hot and bothered.

 

[signbabybrady]

Call us out if you disagree and have a point to make, but don't frame it as "you only bring this up", when it is far from the only aspect that myself and others have brought up in this matter". It's a bad faith argument.

And now you have that mental midget Wozzy all hot and bothered.

I highly doubt Wozzy is going to say I'm the one riling him up lol. You're screwing with me right?

 

[signbabybrady]

Call us out if you disagree and have a point to make, but don't frame it as "you only bring this up", when it is far from the only aspect that myself and others have brought up in this matter". It's a bad faith argument.

And now you have that mental midget Wozzy all hot and bothered.

I'm on a Patsfans message board I'm going to defend my guys here. If my patience runs thin with you repeat offenders I have no problem acting in bad faith.

Bottom lines is Bill has 8 rings and none of your stupid points will ever change that. Undisputed GOAT.

 

[sb1]

In this analogy Mozart actually is BB since what Mozart mostly did was write the music onto paper then pick and conduct the members of the orchestra.

True but I'd still say Mozart made his teacher look good more than vice versa.

 

[ScottishPatriots]

Because the model stopped working. Bill was an anomaly and it was becoming obvious that the rest of the league had finally evolved past Bill's method of working the post free agency era and Bill had no interest in giving it up so that he could compete and having a sophisticated personnel department.

Also results in the NFL tend tolag

It worked from 2000-2013/14. The great drafting and free agencies from 09-14 set the table for the 14-18 run. But even by like 2018 people were saying "you know the Patriots aren't all that deep and a lot of their drafts recently had kinda flopped. It just kept compounding for years without a correction until it was unsustainable.

You don't watch someone be unable to competently draft and restock the team from 2015-2023 and say "yeah we should keep driving into this ditch".

Vrabel is a modern coach, he's never going to subscribe to that model because it's archaic and he understands what the teams he's competing with have in place.

Yeah the main thing being the game changed away from Bills strength and into his weaknesses.

The WRs and passing game became more important than ever and let's be honest he hates QBs and can't draft or doesn't value WRs and still wants to win the old school way with a QB managing the game with defense and special teams where as the NFL wants shootouts and scoring and doesn't want defensive games and the rules are against it.

The Anti-Bill and Pro-Bill people can't just accept that Bill was the best ever in his prime and then at the end he sucked, we don't have to go back and re-create history to discredit him when he was great and then pretend he didn't cause his own demise with terrible drafting and coaching staff decisions, he became more about wanting to be with his friends and coach people he liked rather than to hire the best people for the job, if you don't get out at the right time a coach in every sport has that moment when the game passes them by and Bill had his.

Bill from 2001-2016 was a great coach who although had spotty drafts you could always say he put the team first, from 2017 questionable things where he clearly putting himself and his personal feelings before the team started to happen, the downfall started before Brady left that last Super Bowl was almost a miracle that team had some horrendous performances during that season at Jacksonville, Tennessee and Detroit that you almost never see from a team that wins a Super Bowl.

A Brady masterclass in KC and one last showing of Belichicks defensive fastball still having life against the Rams secured an unlikely championship for a team that was in decline that had no business winning.

Conclusion - Bill was wasn't carried by Brady for his career like the Anti-Bill people would tell you he was outstanding for a good 15 years, Bill also wasn't doomed by Mac Jones or Kraft forcing him to draft him like the Pro-Bill people will tell you he was doomed by his own bad decisions and the game passing him by which lasted way longer than a year or two it was going on a good 5/6 seasons and it was getting worse and worse every season and Brady staying would only be able to massage it to a fraudulent 10-11 wins, the days of this team winning big were done because of Bill and his bad drafting and his paranoia and refusing to hire anyone but friends, friends kids, his kids and people with connections to him.

 

[lancerman]

Yeah the main thing being the game changed away from Bills strength and into his weaknesses.

The WRs and passing game became more important than ever and let's be honest he hates QBs and can't draft or doesn't value WRs and still wants to win the old school way with a QB managing the game with defense and special teams where as the NFL wants shootouts and scoring and doesn't want defensive games and the rules are against it.

The Anti-Bill and Pro-Bill people can't just accept that Bill was the best ever in his prime and then at the end he sucked, we don't have to go back and re-create history to discredit him when he was great and then pretend he didn't cause his own demise with terrible drafting and coaching staff decisions, he became more about wanting to be with his friends and coach people he liked rather than to hire the best people for the job, if you don't get out at the right time a coach in every sport has that moment when the game passes them by and Bill had his.

Bill from 2001-2016 was a great coach who although had spotty drafts you could always say he put the team first, from 2017 questionable things where he clearly putting himself and his personal feelings before the team started to happen, the downfall started before Brady left that last Super Bowl was almost a miracle that team had some horrendous performances during that season at Jacksonville, Tennessee and Detroit that you almost never see from a team that wins a Super Bowl.

A Brady masterclass in KC and one last showing of Belichicks defensive fastball still having life against the Rams secured an unlikely championship for a team that was in decline that had no business winning.

Conclusion - Bill was wasn't carried by Brady for his career like the Anti-Bill people would tell you he was outstanding for a good 15 years, Bill also wasn't doomed by Mac Jones or Kraft forcing him to draft him like the Pro-Bill people will tell you he was doomed by his own bad decisions and the game passing him by which lasted way longer than a year or two it was going on a good 5/6 seasons and it was getting worse and worse every season and Brady staying would only be able to massage it to a fraudulent 10-11 wins, the days of this team winning big were done because of Bill and his bad drafting and his paranoia and refusing to hire anyone but friends, friends kids, his kids and people with connections to him.

This is the long and short of it. Bill was great at the start and middle, then game passed him by towards the end and was a problem. Brady didn't single handedly carry the team at it's peak, but he played a big role in closing any gaps and covering for any mistakes.

 

[sb1]

Yeah the main thing being the game changed away from Bills strength and into his weaknesses.

The WRs and passing game became more important than ever and let's be honest he hates QBs and can't draft or doesn't value WRs and still wants to win the old school way with a QB managing the game with defense and special teams where as the NFL wants shootouts and scoring and doesn't want defensive games and the rules are against it.

The Anti-Bill and Pro-Bill people can't just accept that Bill was the best ever in his prime and then at the end he sucked, we don't have to go back and re-create history to discredit him when he was great and then pretend he didn't cause his own demise with terrible drafting and coaching staff decisions, he became more about wanting to be with his friends and coach people he liked rather than to hire the best people for the job, if you don't get out at the right time a coach in every sport has that moment when the game passes them by and Bill had his.

Bill from 2001-2016 was a great coach who although had spotty drafts you could always say he put the team first, from 2017 questionable things where he clearly putting himself and his personal feelings before the team started to happen, the downfall started before Brady left that last Super Bowl was almost a miracle that team had some horrendous performances during that season at Jacksonville, Tennessee and Detroit that you almost never see from a team that wins a Super Bowl.

A Brady masterclass in KC and one last showing of Belichicks defensive fastball still having life against the Rams secured an unlikely championship for a team that was in decline that had no business winning.

Conclusion - Bill was wasn't carried by Brady for his career like the Anti-Bill people would tell you he was outstanding for a good 15 years, Bill also wasn't doomed by Mac Jones or Kraft forcing him to draft him like the Pro-Bill people will tell you he was doomed by his own bad decisions and the game passing him by which lasted way longer than a year or two it was going on a good 5/6 seasons and it was getting worse and worse every season and Brady staying would only be able to massage it to a fraudulent 10-11 wins, the days of this team winning big were done because of Bill and his bad drafting and his paranoia and refusing to hire anyone but friends, friends kids, his kids and people with connections to him.

Right. Bill also had an advantage in Brady that no other team had. With Brady's offensive mind, Bill could focus on what he does best on defense. Brady could also cover up a lot of BB's mistakes and did he ever make his share.

Once that safety blanket left was forced out the door, what was left was a defensive minded coach that refused to get with the times in a league that had long moved on from the era where he thrived. He was like a fish out of water.

And yeah even though Mac Jones was not good he was not responsible for his team's defense getting rung up 47-17 in Buffalo in January the way they did in historic fashion. That was 100% BB's failure, nobody else's. Full stop. All other opinions on that are trash.

 

[Wozzy]

And now you have that mental midget Wozzy all hot and bothered.

Says the smooth brain insisting the winningest coach in history backed into success.

Also stop pretending you can elicit an emotion from me... other than pity maybe.