Content Post Why does Wingspan matter for Tackles?

[Wozzy]

Just not true.

Just because you dislike something doesn’t make it so.

What you’re saying is akin to Randy Moss being stupid fast was no benefit to him…. it’s absurd.

I like Will Campbell the player, like Vrabel as the new guy in charge… it doesn’t mean we pretend everything is perfect. Life is rarely perfect.

 

[Patsfan1645]

You may well be old but that's no indicator of it. Rock 'Em Sock 'Em robots can be found on the shelf of your local Walmart or Target right now. Last year I bought one off the shelf for the grandkids to have at our summer place when it was raining. My sons saw it and thought we'd saved theirs lol

Bought it for the grandkids............rrrrrriiiiiiiiiggggggghhhhhhhhtttttttt

 

[JoeSixPat]

I would never declare Campbell is a bust if he had the same career as Mankins. I am not sure why you say that. It appears as though you feel the need to argue on the opposite side of other posters, so you make up how other posters feel which is the opposite to your feelings.

My point is that if Campbell ends up a OG, then we might have been better off selecting a different prospect with higher upside. I hope Campbell succeeds, but drafting a player at #4 to be a LG is a disasterous move. We got Gonzo at #17. If Campbell is not a LT, then that selection reflects poorly on Vrabel.

Your propensity to tell other posters what they will declare in the future is odd.

Well it's clear from this thread that picking a player at LG at #4 is WAY too high for you and many Patsfans, who will think Campbell a bust if he's better match for LG and we pick up a better LT in the future.

BTW as others have noted, #4 is where the Patriots picked another LG named John Hannah.

Sure Patsfans kindof liike Hannah, but just as you note for Campbell, even if he gets to the Hall of Fame he will always have an asterisk next to his name in the mind of Patsfans who think that wasting a pick that high on just an LG constitutes a "bust."

The bottom line to most Patsfans: he was drafted to be the long term plan at LT at #4 and anything less is failure, right?

I'm just suggesting that Patsfans who share your outlook cut the rookie some slack and accept him if he turns out to be a LG like John Hannah or Logan Mankins.

If that happens there will always be some who still consider him a bust, but they will be wrong.

 

[maust]

Bought it for the grandkids...

Yes but only the younger ones, to help inspire them. When they're a little older I expect them to go at it IRL gladiator style for my entertainment

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

BTW as others have noted, #4 is where the Patriots picked another LG named John Hannah.

Hannah was in a different era. There is no correlation. Just like you tried to create a correlation between picking a OG at #4 and #32, picking an OG in 2025 is not related to picking an OG in 1973.

Sure Patsfans kindof liike Hannah, but just as you note for Campbell, even if he gets to the Hall of Fame he will always have an asterisk next to his name in the mind of Patsfans who think that wasting a pick that high on just an LG constitutes a "bust."

You are obsessed with labeling others' opinions.

The bottom line to most Patsfans: he was drafted to be the long term plan at LT at #4 and anything less is failure, right?

No, not a bust or a failure.

I'm just suggesting that Patsfans who share your outlook cut the rookie some slack and accept him if he turns out to be a LG like John Hannah or Logan Mankins.

If that happens there will always be some who still consider him a bust, but they will be wrong.

Agreed, Campbell will not be a bust. Everyone accepts Campbell. You need to be more objective and accept that drafting an OG at #4 is not a good use of a significant resource.

 

[signbabybrady]

Hannah was in a different era. There is no correlation. Just like you tried to create a correlation between picking a OG at #4 and #32, picking an OG in 2025 is not related to picking an OG in 1973.

You are obsessed with labeling others' opinions.

No, not a bust or a failure.

Agreed, Campbell will not be a bust. Everyone accepts Campbell. You need to be more objective and accept that drafting an OG at #4 is not a good use of a significant resource.

When Campbell succeeds at LT there will be no debate it was worth it.

If he gets moved to LG then he needs to be Mankins or Hannah and even then we'll have to see what the other available players do which could lead to labeling it a bad use of resource (I'd still hesitate to say bust). I don't typically like that game but in this case It wasn't the most top heavy draft so it should be considered.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Hannah was in a different era. There is no correlation. Just like you tried to create a correlation between picking a OG at #4 and #32, picking an OG in 2025 is not related to picking an OG in 1973.

You are obsessed with labeling others' opinions.

No, not a bust or a failure.

Agreed, Campbell will not be a bust. Everyone accepts Campbell. You need to be more objective and accept that drafting an OG at #4 is not a good use of a significant resource.

Oh I'm just having some fun with everyone who has already decided that if this poor kid is anything less than Bruce Armstrong, let alone the starting LT for the next decade, it was a waste of a pick at #4!

Fans typically have high expectations but in this case, while they should expect him to be an upgrade at LT over last year for now, if he eventually winds up moving to LG while we gain an even better upgrade at LT in the future, that doesn't sound like a bad thing to me.

No key starters are "busts" in my book, even if they were drafted in the Top Ten. And I fully expect that Campbell will be a contributing member of the OL for the next 5 years - I'm just not sure which position it will be.

Don't forget - all the top free agent LTs snubbed the Patriots who had the most money to offer. The Patriots tried NOT to address LT through the draft but struck out.

Once they regain some credibility as an organization they may be able to attract the top caliber FA talent. For now they picked the best available OL with the #4 pick in part because free agency left them no choice - another reason to adjust expectations.

Different era or not, #4 pick LG John Hannah is considered by many to be the best offensive lineman in Patriots history.

I'm sure he would agree that there is no shame in taking a LG at #4.

 

[n1997y]

I am watching this thread like I would a car wreck. I haven't read every post, but is it possible that no one has made a "size doesn't matter" joke yet??

I’ve read most if not all. Promptly forgot them, as they deserved.

So your joke may have been made already. Lord knows the thread is long enough for it to be repeated. And it’s already full of duplicate comments. Gems like these:

You are joking right?

No

Wow

Just not true.

so you’re definitely upgrading the dialogue even if you are repeating an old joke.

 

[Ring 6]

Just because you dislike something doesn’t make it so.

What you’re saying is akin to Randy Moss being stupid fast was no benefit to him…. it’s absurd.

I like Will Campbell the player, like Vrabel as the new guy in charge… it doesn’t mean we pretend everything is perfect. Life is rarely perfect.

Just because you think something doesn’t make it true either.

Randy Moss speed and an inch longer finger aren’t comparable.
But let’s try this, which is more likely to be a great player, all other things equal? The fastest WR or the OT with the longest arms.
You are comparing apples to water buffaloes. Speed is an essentially, critical skill and attribute for everything a WR does. Arm length does nothing to make an OT better or worse.

 

[dliverey44]

The whole concept of this thread is ridiculous. Tackles don't even have wings.

Some do now because of Red Bull

 

[pazrul72]

Just because you think something doesn’t make it true either.

Randy Moss speed and an inch longer finger aren’t comparable.
But let’s try this, which is more likely to be a great player, all other things equal? The fastest WR or the OT with the longest arms.
You are comparing apples to water buffaloes. Speed is an essentially, critical skill and attribute for everything a WR does. Arm length does nothing to make an OT better or worse.

See Andy this is why people stop responding to you, you intentionally twist their post and lie about a basic fact just to piss them off so they will argue with you. Wozzy was very clearly talking about wingspan not arm length and yet you keep going back to that. That's dishonest just to provoke frustration. It's a measured fact Campbell is anywhere from 4-7 inches short of NFL average not "an inch longer finger" which again you keep repeating as fact when it's not. You keep saying show me the proof when you won't even admit the basic fact that he does have a significant small wingspan.

In your Moss example, how much of what made Randy so good was that he was 6'4? He just flat out went over people, granted his 40 inch vertical didn't hurt, but how many catches would he have had if he was 6'1? Probably still a ton because speed, route running, and hands are way more important then height but people guessing Moss has maybe 90 or 95% of his production at 6'1 aren't crazy. Height matters just like wingspan matters. It's not the be all end all measurement but bigger IS better.

 

[Ring 6]

See Andy this is why people stop responding to you, you intentionally twist their post and lie about a basic fact just to piss them off so they will argue with you. Wozzy was very clearly talking about wingspan not arm length and yet you keep going back to that. That's dishonest just to provoke frustration. It's a measured fact Campbell is anywhere from 4-7 inches short of NFL average not "an inch longer finger" which again you keep repeating as fact when it's not. You keep saying show me the proof when you won't even admit the basic fact that he does have a significant small wingspan.

In your Moss example, how much of what made Randy so good was that he was 6'4? He just flat out went over people, granted his 40 inch vertical didn't hurt, but how many catches would he have had if he was 6'1? Probably still a ton because speed, route running, and hands are way more important then height but people guessing Moss has maybe 90 or 95% of his production at 6'1 aren't crazy. Height matters just like wingspan matters. It's not the be all end all measurement but bigger IS better.

Huh?
This was his post

@Ring 6 I already answered this

Your notion that arm length doesn’t matter isn’t supported by any football scout worth a damn.

He is clearly talking about arm length.

You owe me an apology.

 

[Patsfan1645]

This could work ? I mean its over a foot more than Will's.

 

[Wozzy]

Just because you think something doesn’t make it true either.

Randy Moss speed and an inch longer finger aren’t comparable.

Lie #1: This ^ is why your premise is wrong, it’s built on a lie. “One inch longer” is a straw man you’ve created. Campbell’s wingspan is substantially shorter than one inch.

But let’s try this, which is more likely to be a great player, all other things equal? The fastest WR or the OT with the longest arms.
You are comparing apples to water buffaloes. Speed is an essentially, critical skill and attribute for everything a WR does. Arm length does nothing to make an OT better or worse.

Lie #2: This is the second reason your premise is flawed. “Arm length is all that matters” was never said by anyone here.

You continually shift the conversation from wingspan to “arm length” so you can harp of one inch… it’s disingenuous. The total width of a person is made up of two arms and their entire torso… not one arm.

In fact if you go back to last year when I was absolutely skewering the offensive line choices by Wolf, my criticism was that he gravitated towards guys with really long arms who weren’t good athletes… Vederian Lowe being the prototypical example.

You act like posters here invented wingspan at offensive tackle… we didn’t. It’s been a desired trait by football scouts forever.

You’re not going to rewrite a hundred years of scouting on Patsfans.com just because you dislike criticisms of the Campbell pick.

 

[Ring 6]

Lie #1: This ^ is why your premise is wrong, it’s built on a lie. “One inch longer” is a straw man you’ve created. Campbell’s wingspan is substantially shorter than one inch.

Lie #2: This is the second reason your premise is flawed. “Arm length is all that matters” was never said by anyone here.

You continually shift the conversation from wingspan to “arm length” so you can harp of one inch… it’s disingenuous. The total width of a person is made up of two arms and their entire torso… not one arm.

In fact if you go back to last year when I was absolutely skewering the offensive line choices by Wolf, my criticism was that he gravitated towards guys with really long arms who weren’t good athletes… Vederian Lowe being the prototypical example.

You act like posters here invented wingspan at offensive tackle… we didn’t. It’s been a desired trait by football scouts forever.

You’re not going to rewrite a hundred years of scouting on Patsfans.com just because you dislike criticisms of the Campbell pick.

You said arm length. Which is an inch or less shorter than the number people cite

I’m not arguing you said it’s all that matters, you compared arm length of an OT to speed of a WR. You can’t demonstrate how arm length afdcys performance of an OT and speed is a critical and defining characteristic of a WR.

Your posts say ARM LENGTH. I am not the one shifting, I am responding to your post and the term you used.

I invite anyone to show me an example where a play was made or not because of wingspan (or arm length you keep flip flopping) and no one does,but everyone gets all pissy with their appeal to authority that “scouts say so” yet here is Campbell drafted #4 and rated in that range by every scout. Don’t blame me that you can’t make your argument with reaching for a “well, everyone knows”

 

[Ring 6]

@Ring 6 I already answered this

Your notion that arm length doesn’t matter isn’t supported by any football scout worth a damn.

Dante Scarnecchua says what up

 

[Wozzy]

You said arm length. Which is an inch or less shorter than the number people cite

I’m not arguing you said it’s all that matters, you compared arm length of an OT to speed of a WR. You can’t demonstrate how arm length afdcys performance of an OT and speed is a critical and defining characteristic of a WR.

Your posts say ARM LENGTH. I am not the one shifting, I am responding to your post and the term you used.

I invite anyone to show me an example where a play was made or not because of wingspan (or arm length you keep flip flopping) and no one does,but everyone gets all pissy with their appeal to authority that “scouts say so” yet here is Campbell drafted #4 and rated in that range by every scout. Don’t blame me that you can’t make your argument with reaching for a “well, everyone knows”

You said arm length doesn’t matter… it all matters.

 

[Wozzy]

Dante Scarnecchua says what up

Dante is retired. He also said he wouldn’t use the 4th overall on a lineman so you’d better take it up with him.

 

[signbabybrady]

This is why I've tried to say Arm length/Wing span and not separate them. This debate is minute enough we don't need to also quibble over the 2 different ways the league chooses to measure.

The fact they take both measurements shows they feel it's worth while information.

I'd suggest that almost every game a QB manages to just release the ball a split second before a sack or even QB hit that could impact the throw. And then I'd suggest that an inch less of wingspan/arm length could very likely close that gap and change the outcome of the play.

 

[signbabybrady]

No one memorizes a great play made by an Olinemen. But I know I've seen instances where they seem beat and just manage one little extra push to force the DL just enough so the QB can throw.

Also I'm sure glad Hightowers arm length/wingspan wasn't smaller when he tackled Lynch in SB49.