Are we set at LB?

[Huckleberry1]

there's a limit based on how many LB will usually be on the field. Sure, we could have 9 LB's or 10. But there is a balance. When we run a nickel, IMO, we NEED 10 defensive backs plus Schooler (unless we carry only 24 of Offense (a really bad idea with OL and WR situation.

That likely leaves 14 up front.

If we start 4 DL's (including DE White) that leaves 2 LB's. Even if we argue that that we often have 4 LB's on the field, EIGHT roster positions should give us plenty of backups. If we normally had 4 DB's on the field, there might be more need for a 9th LB.

But that is just my way of thinking about it. Some would exclude DE's and call them EDGE players. I have never done that with other DE's like Wise, but it certainly is a reasonable way of breaking down the roster. And THEN, some call those EDGE players LB's, and leave us with 5 DL's.

What does the OL have to do with that?

“If our base is 4-2-5, then I suggest that there is no need for NINE OL's as you list.”

 

[Wozzy]

Godchaux was never good IMO.. he's showed flashed here and there but never lived up to being this so called run stuffer. He's was serviceable, nothing more than that. Tonga is a beast in the running game he played out in Arizona so many didn't get to see alot of Arizona games. My reference to Ngata was just saying the affect he could have on the running game playing with Barmore, white, Williams, farmer..Ngata benefited from Lewis and suggs..

Yet when Godchaux was here and coaching good they had one of the best run defenses in the league. He played max snaps, don’t see our current Samoan doing that. Godchaux was paid like a mid-tier nose tackle, so he didn’t bother me as much as some here.

 

[Wozzy]

Seven starts over four years, a half sack, 3 TFL’s… seems like a situational run plugger and nothing else.

 

[mgteich]

What does the OL have to do with that?

“If our base is 4-2-5, then I suggest that there is no need for NINE OL's as you list.”

ENOUGH

Congrats! 10 points to you. You caught a typo.

If we run a 4-2-5, we don't need nine LB's. That is what this thread is about.
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I'll just put you on ignore. Feel free to do the same. For me, I don't come here to find typos and win points.

 

[Real fan 02]

Seven starts over four years, a half sack, 3 TFL’s… seems like a situational run plugger and nothing else.

Still better than godawful

 

[Real fan 02]

Yet when Godchaux was here and coaching good they had one of the best run defenses in the league. He played max snaps, don’t see our current Samoan doing that. Godchaux was paid like a mid-tier nose tackle, so he didn’t bother me as much as some here.

Tonga played at a few spots around the league. I trust Vrabel's eye to identify run players. Godchaux wasn't a fit for what Vrabel's running to be a NT he got pushed off the ball far to much for me. As I mentioned he made flashes here and thier but really did nothing of impact. I wish him the best in NO though.

 

[mgteich]

Tonga played at a few spots around the league. I trust Vrabel's eye to identify run players. Godchaux wasn't a fit for what Vrabel's running to be a NT he got pushed off the ball far to much for me. As I mentioned he made flashes here and thier but really did nothing of impact. I wish him the best in NO though.

We need to do better at stopping the run. We might have done better than Tonga and Farmer. This might be our #2 weakest position (after LG).

Tonga: #1 run thumper on the DL
Farmer: backup run thumper on the DL

Vrabel will find the best combination to have at LB in run situations, but first we have to be able to run-stopping by DL's.

 

[rkarp1]

yeah I see Tonga strictly as situational. 25-35% of the snaps?

 

[Real fan 02]

We need to do better at stopping the run. We might have done better than Tonga and Farmer. This might be our #2 weakest position (after LG).

Tonga: #1 run thumper on the DL
Farmer: backup run thumper on the DL

Vrabel will find the best combination to have at LB in run situations, but first we have to be able to run-stopping by DL's.

Tonga is a excellent run player. I entrust Vrabel's eyes on getting run players. Your right the run game has hampered us especially last season. If a tram can run on you they can do anything they want on offense to a defense. Farmer also can rush and play the run. Vrabel's not playing anyone who can play run support that is a pride for a DL to stop the run.

 

[rkarp1]

I thought last year the run stop missed Bentley and missed Tavai (moved outside)
Spillane, Gibbons, Tavai, Elliss, Mapu should be an upgrade in 2nd level run support

 

[mgteich]

ROLES
What do you all think will be the roles of Pharms and/or Roy? Are they really all we have if there is an injury to Williams or Barmore?

I suspect that if they were free agents, we wouldn't either one of them. If so, doesn't that mean that Vrabel is likely to find an upgrade?
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We all understand the roles of Williams, Barmore and White.
We also understand the roles of Tonga and Farmer.
That's a well improved 5-man DL.
I suspect that Spillane or Chaisson can come in if White is out.

 

[rkarp1]

ROLES
What do you all think will be the roles of Pharms and/or Roy? Are they really all we have if there is an injury to Williams or Barmore?

I suspect that if they were free agents, we wouldn't either one of them. If so, doesn't that mean that Vrabel is likely to find an upgrade?
=========
We all understand the roles of Williams, Barmore and White.
We also understand the roles of Tonga and Farmer.
That's a well improved 5-man DL.
I suspect that Spillane or Chaisson can come in if White is out.

I actually think both Pharms and Roy are suitable 6th and 7th options. DT is a hard spot to fill.

 

[signbabybrady]

We need to do better at stopping the run. We might have done better than Tonga and Farmer. This might be our #2 weakest position (after LG).

Tonga: #1 run thumper on the DL
Farmer: backup run thumper on the DL

Vrabel will find the best combination to have at LB in run situations, but first we have to be able to run-stopping by DL's.

The thing with the DL depth especially from a run stopping stand point is that you still want Williams, Barmore, and White on the field. Even if they are a little light they are still our best DLs. Other than breathers they should each be getting a very high snap count.

Similar thing for the LBs. It's a different scheme and we're going to have to be able to play the run well with some lighter players at both DL and LB.

Bad example because he's a freak but no one was taking Donald off the field on run situations because of his size so our guys need to figure that out too. I think Williams and Barmore are fine. White still needs to improve but you can say that about his pass rush too. White's still a work in progress and he needs to prove himself in both phases.

All that said I'm a little concerned with goal line and short yardage because then it does become a little more just about beef. Probably not what most people want to hear but given where we are in the rebuild if everything else gets better in the front 7 and this is something we fix next off-season it's a problem I can live with for a year. We wouldn't necessarily be looking for Vince Wilfork someone like Alan Branch would round out the group nicely I just doubt we find that at cut downs so it might have to wait until next year that's if Tonga can't be that guy or we want 2 of them.

 

[Wozzy]

Still better than godawful

Cheaper, not better.

 

[Wozzy]

Tonga played at a few spots around the league. I trust Vrabel's eye to identify run players. Godchaux wasn't a fit for what Vrabel's running to be a NT he got pushed off the ball far to much for me. As I mentioned he made flashes here and thier but really did nothing of impact. I wish him the best in NO though.

I think Tonga will be a lot like Carl Davis was for the Pats at the end, comes in on third and short and goal line, plays about 25% of defensive snaps on the season. A run specialist…

 

[Wozzy]

ROLES
What do you all think will be the roles of Pharms and/or Roy? Are they really all we have if there is an injury to Williams or Barmore?

Roy put some good football down on tape, unfortunately he got hurt. I wonder if he’s healthy to start the year.

 

[Real fan 02]

The thing with the DL depth especially from a run stopping stand point is that you still want Williams, Barmore, and White on the field. Even if they are a little light they are still our best DLs. Other than breathers they should each be getting a very high snap count.

Similar thing for the LBs. It's a different scheme and we're going to have to be able to play the run well with some lighter players at both DL and LB.

Bad example because he's a freak but no one was taking Donald off the field on run situations because of his size so our guys need to figure that out too. I think Williams and Barmore are fine. White still needs to improve but you can say that about his pass rush too. White's still a work in progress and he needs to prove himself in both phases.

All that said I'm a little concerned with goal line and short yardage because then it does become a little more just about beef. Probably not what most people want to hear but given where we are in the rebuild if everything else gets better in the front 7 and this is something we fix next off-season it's a problem I can live with for a year. We wouldn't necessarily be looking for Vince Wilfork someone like Alan Branch would round out the group nicely I just doubt we find that at cut downs so it might have to wait until next year that's if Tonga can't be that guy or we want 2 of them.

We have Tonga, farmer, Pharms. That id say fit that DT/NT goal line formation. But to your point I'd like to add at least one more DT/NT for depth purposes.

Barmore is also a great goal line DL in his own right. The thing is you want to be a defense that doesn't often allow opponents deep into the red area much. A good defense gets off the field on 3rd down and limits opponents to FGs in the red area. We have the capability and talent to do so.

 

[Real fan 02]

Cheaper, not better.

I can think of impacts Allan branch had or other DL over the years even Carl Davis had more of an impact. Godchaux was serviceable nothing more than that.

 

[Real fan 02]

Roy put some good football down on tape, unfortunately he got hurt. I wonder if he’s healthy to start the year.

What about Ponder or ritzie UDFA?

 

[Wozzy]

I can think of impacts Allan branch had or other DL over the years even Carl Davis had more of an impact. Godchaux was serviceable nothing more than that.

Snap counts, stats and defensive rankings say you’re wrong.