PATRIOTS NEWS Breaking news (Parcells to Pats HoF; Wes Schweitzer retires)

[patfanken]

I saw these 2 Patriot stories on my browser and came by to comment on them, but nothing was here so I'm posting this. If I was mistaken, feel free to take it down. Mods

1. Bill Parcells is getting put into the Pats HOF. Not elected. I've made my feelings known over the years that he is NOT worthy, especially given Fairbanks, Francis, and others aren't in yet. He was a .500 coach here and quit on the team in the superbowl. He has a case to be in the NFL HOF but NOT the Pats HOF

2. Wes Schwietzer the OG we hardly knew has apparently retired. Good luck to him in his future endeavors.

 

[DarrylS]

Not sure I would ever consider Parcells, although he brought a winning ethos and 1 trip to a Superbowl, as he essentially abandoned the Pats after SB XXXI and took a different plane back to Boston...
It was often reported that Parcells had begun his quest for another HC position while preparing for SB XXXI and was not as focused on SB prep..
Then he went to the Jets where he was allowed to "shop for the groceries"....

 

[Pape]

I saw these 2 Patriot stories on my browser and came by to comment on them, but nothing was here so I'm posting this. If I was mistaken, feel free to take it down. Mods

1. Bill Parcells is getting put into the Pats HOF. Not elected. I've made my feelings known over the years that he is NOT worthy, especially given Fairbanks, Francis, and others aren't in yet. He was a .500 coach here and quit on the team in the superbowl. He has a case to be in the NFL HOF but NOT the Pats HOF

2. Wes Schwietzer the OG we hardly knew has apparently retired. Good luck to him in his future endeavors.

The Patriots Hall of Fame ... I have some issues with how things are done there...

Ostensibly, it is a fairly streamlined process, with a selection committee handling the bulk of player/Head coach nominations, with a fan vote deciding between the top three options to determine who gets in... It is important to note, based on my understanding of the process only Players and Head Coaches are considered by the committee... If I am incorrect about this, please speak up, let me know...

Robert Kraft maintains the right to unilaterally name anyone to the PHoF, typically contributors (Tom Brady has been the lone player exception to this guideline, and now the Tuna is the sole Head Coach)... Parcells has been off/on the finalist ballot 5 times since 2011... RKK skipped the process and put him in this year... Why? ask him, he hasn't really explained his decision other than saying (and I paraphrase here} 'he was a five time finalist, who would have gotten in eventually. I wanted him to enjoy it while he was still alive' ... If he had any other reasons, reasons such as brown nosing the Canton voters as has been opined here, it is his perogative... Is Parcells worthy of enshrinement? Thats for each person to determine... From Krafts perspective Parcells reset the franchise, which lead to financial stability (sold out stadiums) aka money, two home playoff victories (a franchise first), and a trip to the super bowl... i suspect him being the author of cementing the franchises financial stability is the key reason here... ymmv

and just to point out that RKK has added other contributors to the hall... they are Dante Scarnecchia, Tracy Sormanti, Gil Santos and William Sullivan, the founder of the franchise...

As for past players, this is where I have an issue with the nomination process... Not so much for the modern day players, but for the older players from the 60's, 70's 80's and even the 90's... The PHoF does have a senior selection committee (SSC)... In order to qualify as a senior committee nominee, a player has to be retired for 25 years and has to have been a finalist at some point... Its why Jon Morris, Houston Antwine and Leon Gray are in and guys like Julius Adams, Russ Francis, Raymond Berry and Chuck Fairbanks are not...

The issue with a lack of older players/coaches is directly tied to the requirement of SSC that the player/coach nominees have to be prior finalists... Well from 2001 to 2007 the PHoF committee nominated no one... You have a blank slate during that period, and a lot of former Patriot greats get passed over because of the aforementioned SSC prior finalist rule... How any older players would have been finalists during that period? 18 guys potentially... Currently players from the older days rarely/barely stand a chance to make a ballot because of the surfeit of success the team had over the past 25 years (excluding the past few years)... Its a game of popularity, and the older players/coaches do not have the cache of the newer players who won a lot of games, who won a lot of Lombardis...

This years vote, which really came down to Vinatieri and Edelman bears this out... Julian Edelman won the fan vote, something that was easily predictable... First things first - Jules is absolutely a Patriot Hall of Fame caliber player - Glad he got in... But so is Adam Vinatieri... but Adam will languish on the ballot because he will now be facing a murders row of players from the championship era, that he literally helped kick off... But his bona fides took place 20-25 years ago... thats a long time... I do hope he gets in sooner rather than later... but I digress a bit, so let me step down from that particular soap box... this is about the older, non-Dynasty Era players...

The SSC needs to be able to nominate players without any restrictions beyond the retired for 25 years aspect... Want to restrict it somewhat, let the SSC only nominate a guy every two or three years... If the PHoF lets in two guys a year every other year or every three years, so what? Could even include a fan vote... No reason the SSC/The Patriots can't do a Yes/No vote for the SSC nominee, independent of the current modern day finalist vote... It will do nothing to impact the honor of earning a spot at One Patriot Place...

 

[Huckleberry1]

That will be the easiest ticket to a Pats HOF Induction ever.

 

[jmt57]

That will be the easiest ticket to a Pats HOF Induction ever.

I couldn't decide whether to respond with a 'sad', 'angry' or 'nailed it' emoji to your comment, as the software limits my choice to one.

 

[Bill Lee]

Yawn. So much energy being wasted on events of the distant past. The Schwietzer news is more relevant than the HOF news, which is one way of showing how irrelevant the HOF news is. Yet as the BB vs TB debates show, people have a hard time letting go of the past.

 

[Thelonious]

Yawn. So much energy being wasted on events of the distant past. The Schwietzer news is more relevant than the HOF news, which is one way of showing how irrelevant the HOF news is. Yet as the BB vs TB debates show, people have a hard time letting go of the past.

Bored are you, by what others have to say? Boredom, I have found, is more often the result of a lack of inner resources, of a diminished capacity for appreciation for what life has to offer on the part of the bored person than it is a sign of some sort of elevated or refined level of sophistication. Your post is unkind as well. I'd take it down if I were you, but thankfully I am not.

 

[jmt57]

I saw these 2 Patriot stories on my browser and came by to comment on them, but nothing was here so I'm posting this. If I was mistaken, feel free to take it down. Mods

1. Bill Parcells is getting put into the Pats HOF. Not elected. I've made my feelings known over the years that he is NOT worthy, especially given Fairbanks, Francis, and others aren't in yet. He was a .500 coach here and quit on the team in the superbowl. He has a case to be in the NFL HOF but NOT the Pats HOF

2. Wes Schwietzer the OG we hardly knew has apparently retired. Good luck to him in his future endeavors.

That's the first I head about Schweitzer. He's had a lot of injuries the last two or three years, so expectations were pretty low; seems like he was just insurance if someone ahead of him was injured.


When I first read about Kraft making that decision on Parcells I was extremely disappointed, for the same reasons that you alluded to. I also thought it was a slap in the face to the fans, that made it known through their votes that they did not want Parcells in the Pats Hall. I understand that he is the owner, and thus can do whatever he wants; that is his prerogative. And very similarly, I as a fan/we collectively as fans are entitled to speak out and voice our displeasure.

What's the point of even having a vote if the person in charge is going to overrule it when he sees fit? That makes the concept of voting nothing more than an illusion. He still could have gained entry via the senior committee.

And spare me Kraft's hypocritical line about wanting Parcells to be able to enjoy the moment now, rather than gain entrance posthumously. Kraft sure didn't care about that when it came to Houston Antwine, Jim Nance or Leon Gray.


Edit: The initial news about Kraft deciding to place Parcells into the Pats HoF came out on April 1, making it a bad April Fools Day joke. I recall some talk about it, but overall I think it got buried amongst other free agency news stories and the lead up to the draft.

It is being recirculated now because the Patriots have set a time and date for the HoF ceremony. Too bad Julian Edelman will have to share the spotlight with Parcells. Chuck Fairbanks is more deserving in the "contributor" category than Parcells.

 

[Steve102]

PATRIOTS NEWS - Parcells going in Patriots HoF

There's a thread about Parcells already, @patfanken. The Schweitzer news is relevant IMO to this year's team, there's a spot that will go to a player with less ability now that he's out.

 

[State]

Wes Stinkefüße is following the Riley Reiff route. At least he wasn’t given a guaranteed $5 million contract.

Stinkefüße=stinky feet.

Can the real Sidy Sow step up? Eastern Michigan is cheering you on.

I’d be great if Chattanooga Cole doesn’t get injured. But I’m not betting on that prospect.

 

[varjao]

It would have been nice to get a good Left guard prospect in the draft as well since I don't trust any of these guys already on the roster but with a limited number of picks you make the picks and live with it, they did pick a Center which was also a need, maybe even bigger and got the best center prospect instead of maybe the 3rd or 4th LG.

 

[Bill Lee]

The Schweitzer news is relevant IMO to this year's team, there's a spot that will go to a player with less ability now that he's out.

As the old saying goes, the best ability is availability.

Wes had little of that, and now, none.

 

[Wozzy]

It would have been nice to get a good Left guard prospect in the draft as well since I don't trust any of these guys already on the roster but with a limited number of picks you make the picks and live with it, they did pick a Center which was also a need, maybe even bigger and got the best center prospect instead of maybe the 3rd or 4th LG.

Jared Wilson can play either, so can Strange, with those two and Bradbury they have the interior pretty much locked up assuming health. Sow can play guard or tackle, they have a lot of flexibility now.

With more and better dedicated OT’s, the line should be pretty good if healthy and provided the new regime can develop the youth. Schweitzer was a stiff, he had an uphill climb to make the roster even if he was healthy.

 

[signbabybrady]

The Patriots Hall of Fame ... I have some issues with how things are done there...

Ostensibly, it is a fairly streamlined process, with a selection committee handling the bulk of player/Head coach nominations, with a fan vote deciding between the top three options to determine who gets in... It is important to note, based on my understanding of the process only Players and Head Coaches are considered by the committee... If I am incorrect about this, please speak up, let me know...

Robert Kraft maintains the right to unilaterally name anyone to the PHoF, typically contributors (Tom Brady has been the lone player exception to this guideline, and now the Tuna is the sole Head Coach)... Parcells has been off/on the finalist ballot 5 times since 2011... RKK skipped the line this year and put him in this year... Why? ask him, he hasn't really explained his decision other than saying (and I paraphrase here} 'he was a five time finalist, who would have gotten in eventually. I wanted him to enjoy it while he was still alive' ... If he had any other reasons, reasons such as brown nosing the Canton voters as has been opined here, it is his perogative... Is Parcells worthy of enshrinement? Thats for each person to determine... From Krafts perspective Parcells reset the franchise, which lead to financial stability (sold out stadiums) aka money, two home playoff victories (a franchise first), and a trip to the super bowl... i suspect him being the author of cementing the franchises financial stability is the key reason here... ymmv

and just to point out that RKK has added other contributors to the hall... they are Dante Scarnecchia, Tracy Sormanti, Gil Santos and William Sullivan, the founder of the franchise...

As for past players, this is where I have an issue with the nomination process... Not so much for the modern day players, but for the older players from the 60's, 70's 80's and even the 90's... The PHoF does have a senior selection committee (SSC)... In order to qualify as a senior committee nominee, a player has to be retired for 25 years and has to have been a finalist at some point... Its why Jon Morris, Houston Antwine and Leon Gray are in and guys like Julius Adams, Russ Francis, Raymond Berry and Chuck Fairbanks are not...

The issue with a lack of older players/coaches is directly tied to the requirement of SSC that the player/coach nominees have to be prior finalists... Well from 2001 to 2007 the PHoF committee nominated no one... You have a blank slate during that period, and a lot of former Patriot greats get passed over because of the aforementioned SSC prior finalist rule... How any older players would have been finalists during that period? 18 guys potentially... Currently players from the older days rarely/barely stand a chance to make a ballot because of the surfeit of success the team had over the past 25 years (excluding the past few years)... Its a game of popularity, and the older players/coaches do not have the cache of the newer players who won a lot of games, who won a lot of Lombardis...

This years vote, which really came down to Vinatieri and Edelman bears this out... Julian Edelman won the fan vote, something that was easily predictable... First things first - Jules is absolutely a Patriot Hall of Fame caliber player - Glad he got in... But so is Adam Vinatieri... but Adam will languish on the ballot because he will now be facing a murders row of players from the championship era, that he literally helped kick off... But his bona fides took place 20-25 years ago... thats a long time... I do hope he gets in sooner rather than later... but I digress a bit, so let me step down from that particular soap box... this is about the older, non-Dynasty Era players...

The SSC needs to be able to nominate players without any restrictions beyond the retired for 25 years aspect... Want to restrict it somewhat, let the SSC only nominate a guy every two or three years... If the PHoF lets in two guys a year every other year or every three years, so what? Could even include a fan vote... No reason the SSC/The Patriots can't do a Yes/No vote for the SSC nominee, independent of the current modern day finalist vote... It will do nothing to impact the honor of earning a spot at One Patriot Place...

I definitely agree the senior committee needs revamping but Vinatieri is a bad example. His problem is simply that he kept playing for so long. His moments occurred over 20 years ago and that didn't help him when compared to Jules but bottom line is he retired one year before Jules and because they skipped a year with Brady's automatic bid they were both first time candidates.

Vinatieri will probably lose a few more head to heads in the next few years and maybe recency bias has a little to do with it or maybe Gronk, Jules, and whoever else gets in before him are just more worthy. But he'll win a head to head vote way before his 25 years pass. I'd predict probably about 5 years from now. Gronk will go next year for sure. Hightower, McCourty, and a few others have a good chance to go in first too but it will quickly turn back to Vinatieri especially when fans see him lose a head to head a few times in row we'll come to our senses. I mean when Adam's going head to head vs Slater instead of Gronk or Jules he probably wins.

Personally I think Kraft should just step in and put all the no brainer candidates in and don't make any of them wait. But with that they should also skip a few years because we don't want to water things down too much. Not sure exactly how any of that would work and I definitely know for many reasons Kraft likes his yearly party and rightfully too so we probably just have to let time do it's thing a few guys might wait longer than they should but if they're worthy I don't think they'll get snubbed the way the real good old school guys do. And even then we're only talking about a handful of guys.

It's not perfect but it is what it is I doubt they change things.

 

[Pape]

I definitely agree the senior committee needs revamping but Vinatieri is a bad example. His problem is simply that he kept playing for so long. His moments occurred over 20 years ago and that didn't help him when compared to Jules but bottom line is he retired one year before Jules and because they skipped a year with Brady's automatic bid they were both first time candidates.

Vinatieri will probably lose a few more head to heads in the next few years and maybe recency bias has a little to do with it or maybe Gronk, Jules, and whoever else gets in before him are just more worthy. But he'll win a head to head vote way before his 25 years pass. I'd predict probably about 5 years from now. Gronk will go next year for sure. Hightower, McCourty, and a few others have a good chance to go in first too but it will quickly turn back to Vinatieri especially when fans see him lose a head to head a few times in row we'll come to our senses. I mean when Adam's going head to head vs Slater instead of Gronk or Jules he probably wins.

Personally I think Kraft should just step in and put all the no brainer candidates in and don't make any of them wait. But with that they should also skip a few years because we don't want to water things down too much. Not sure exactly how any of that would work and I definitely know for many reasons Kraft likes his yearly party and rightfully too so we probably just have to let time do it's thing a few guys might wait longer than they should but if they're worthy I don't think they'll get snubbed the way the real good old school guys do. And even then we're only talking about a handful of guys.

It's not perfect but it is what it is I doubt they change things.

I thought Edelman v Vinatieri was a microcosm of the issues older players face... maybe I didn't make the point succinctly enough? Overall a fair criticism i suppose, but i thought it was fairly illustrative of the point i was trying to make...

I don't think Kraft needs to step in to just "put guys in"... I like that the fans get to participate in the process...

 

[Pape]

And spare me Kraft's hypocritical line about wanting Parcells to be able to enjoy the moment now, rather than gain entrance posthumously.

That was Kraft speaking directly to the voters in Canton Ohio.

 

[signbabybrady]

I thought Edelman v Vinatieri was a microcosm of the issues older players face... maybe I didn't make the point succinctly enough? Fair criticism i suppose, but i thought it was fairly illustrative of the point i was trying to make...

I don't think Ktaft needs to step in to just "put guys in"... I like that the fans get to participate in the process...

Oh I got your point and agree with it. It's just that AV isn't really one of those older players. He just feels that way because for us it was his moments in the first 3 SBs but he didn't retire until after the 2019 season.

And yeah in general I like that fans have a say and don't necessarily want Kraft stepping in but at the same time it seems stupid to make Gronk and Adam compete against each other when everyone knows they both belong same thing the following year with Hightower...then McCourty. As I said I don't know what the solution is but the next few years will be a little silly.

 

[Pape]

Oh I got your point and agree with it. It's just that AV isn't really one of those older players. He just feels that way because for us it was his moments in the first 3 SBs but he didn't retire until after the 2019 season.

good point... he kept on playing for another decade plus...

if he retired earlier, he'd be in already... right on target with that one...

 

[Steve102]

I thought Edelman v Vinatieri was a microcosm of the issues older players face... maybe I didn't make the point succinctly enough? Overall a fair criticism i suppose, but i thought it was fairly illustrative of the point i was trying to make...

I don't think Kraft needs to step in to just "put guys in"... I like that the fans get to participate in the process...

I think he can fix the one at a time log jam.

 

[JohnJH]

Short take: Parcells does NOT belong in the Patriots HOF.