Celtics 2024-2025 Discussion

[bresna]

I'm not on board with moving Brown if the plan is to rely on Pritchard and Hauser. Brown has become an excellent defender. Pritchard, for all his effort, is still only 6'1" and is easily posted up, even by small guards. Hauser seems to be a "team defender", who relies on and expects rotational help. When he's stuck one on one, the other player generally gets their shot. Losing Brown's D will be a bigger blow to this team than his points. As for the W/L record with & without him, it's hard to find any player causing a dip in the win column when any team wins 64 & 61 games in the last two seasons.

And again, I disagree with Brewskies that Brown is some sort of turnover machine. I think he gets zero respect from the entire refereeing community. Stuff that gets guys like SGA & Brunson to the line is often called "good defense" by the announcers (and obviously by the refs). I think both Brown and Tatum, just by their physiques, which are pretty ripped, get them some sort of "well, they're tough, so we're going to let the defenders beat them up a bit". As bad as it has been in the regular season (remember this game: Celtics First Team to Play a Game without Getting a Foul Shot?), these playoffs were horribly called by the refs. I almost wonder if there is something bad going on in the background, either at the league level or maybe just the refs themselves.

Maybe Tatum & Brown need to join the flop brigade? It seems to work for SGA (OKC in general?) and Brunson.

 

[borisman]

Given his age (turning 30 in July) and the year he just had, this is probably his one shot at a good contract, one that the Celtics are unlikely to offer given their salary cap situation. I would be very surprised if he stayed with the Cs.

The C's own Kornet's Bird rights so they can pay him if they want to. With the possible trade of Porzingas and Big Al maybe retiring or going elsewhere, it's not out of the question the C's retain Kornet.
Edit: I also don't think Luke will get paid what some people think. He won't make more than Pritchard. He's been a career back up. One or two good playoffs series for someone his age won't move the needle much but you never know in this league.

 

[bresna]

The C's own Kornet's Bird rights so they can pay him if they want to. With the possible trade of Porzingas and Big Al maybe retiring or going elsewhere, it's not out of the question the C's retain Kornet.
Edit: I also don't think Luke will get paid what some people think. He won't make more than Pritchard. He's been a career back up. One or two good playoffs series for someone his age won't move the needle much but you never know in this league.

As someone said on reddit:

(If the Celtics) offered him $10M in the first year of his contract, it would cost Boston $90M in tax to match it next year. That does not include keeping their own free agents Hortford or Craig.​

​

Can Boston afford to spend $100M on one season of Luke Kornet?​

 

[borisman]

As someone said on reddit:

(If the Celtics) offered him $10M in the first year of his contract, it would cost Boston $90M in tax to match it next year. That does not include keeping their own free agents Hortford or Craig.​

​

Can Boston afford to spend $100M on one season of Luke Kornet?​

No, but there will be trades so if no more Unicorn and Horford and possibly either Jrue or Brown moving on as well as Hauser, Kornet will not cost near that much if the C's stay under the second apron. As I said though, Kornet may be being overrated because some (casual) fans on here only watch playoff games and he did alright with Porzingas being relegated to 15 minutes per game.

Edit: also, after reading your comment about Brown: last year ('23-'24) aside, he has been a poor ball handler but it was masked when everyone is healthy. When he has to carry the team he gets exposed. He is also not a good passer so his game is take it strong to the bucket or shoot the three. He can also do some fadeaways but he can't handle the ball once he gets more than one defender around him, which will happen more frequently next year with Tatum gone.
Sorry, didn't expect this "edit" to take up more than one sentence.

 

[bresna]

Edit: also, after reading your comment about Brown: last year ('23-'24) aside, he has been a poor ball handler but it was masked when everyone is healthy. When he has to carry the team he gets exposed. He is also not a good passer so his game is take it strong to the bucket or shoot the three. He can also do some fadeaways but he can't handle the ball once he gets more than one defender around him, which will happen more frequently next year with Tatum gone.
Sorry, didn't expect this "edit" to take up more than one sentence.

There's perception and there's reality: Jaylen Brown Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Brown's regular season turnover average at 2.6/game, was not that bad compared to previous seasons. He had 3 seasons in a row (2021-2023) where he averaged 2.7, 2.7 & 2.9 turnovers per game. In general, his turnovers are about the same. That is until you look at this year's playoffs. These playoffs, where the refs clearly put away their whistles with regards to Brown down low, his numbers were much worse, with averages of 3.2 against Orlando and a whopping 3.8 against the Knicks.

FWIW, Tatum turned the ball over at a higher rate (2.9/game) this year but I don't hear anyone calling him a turnover machine.

As for Brown's ball handling skills, his assists/game average was up quite a bit this year compared to previous seasons with 4.5/game. His previous high was 3.6/game last year. He has improved a lot in that regard.

 

[aluminum seats]

Maybe Tatum & Brown need to join the flop brigade? It seems to work for SGA (OKC in general?) and Brunson

Flopping definitely works, sad to say

 

[UrbanCowboy]

Watching some highlights of the current playoff games makes me really wish that the Knicks face the Thunder in the finals. It could be labeled the "Who flops best?" series. I think SGA beats out Brunson, but I'm not sure. That said, the whole Thunder team seems to be able to flop on cue. It's like watching a soccer game at times.

The NBA deserves these ****ty games with the way these refs are calling them.

BTW - I was a bit surprised to see that the WNBA is plagued by this too. I saw the end of the Liberty/Fever game and the referring was just awful. And isn't it funny that once again, the New York team gets the benefit for all of the calls at the end of a close game?

I was travelling internationally and sorta "had to" watch a lot of soccer, and they may be slightly ahead on flopping, but not by much. It is such a turnoff.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I'm not on board with moving Brown if the plan is to rely on Pritchard and Hauser. Brown has become an excellent defender. Pritchard, for all his effort, is still only 6'1" and is easily posted up, even by small guards. Hauser seems to be a "team defender", who relies on and expects rotational help. When he's stuck one on one, the other player generally gets their shot. Losing Brown's D will be a bigger blow to this team than his points. As for the W/L record with & without him, it's hard to find any player causing a dip in the win column when any team wins 64 & 61 games in the last two seasons.

And again, I disagree with Brewskies that Brown is some sort of turnover machine. I think he gets zero respect from the entire refereeing community. Stuff that gets guys like SGA & Brunson to the line is often called "good defense" by the announcers (and obviously by the refs). I think both Brown and Tatum, just by their physiques, which are pretty ripped, get them some sort of "well, they're tough, so we're going to let the defenders beat them up a bit". As bad as it has been in the regular season (remember this game: Celtics First Team to Play a Game without Getting a Foul Shot?), these playoffs were horribly called by the refs. I almost wonder if there is something bad going on in the background, either at the league level or maybe just the refs themselves.

Maybe Tatum & Brown need to join the flop brigade? It seems to work for SGA (OKC in general?) and Brunson.

I’m certainly not suggesting they rely on Hauser. The Celtics, like every team, are going to need to have a handful of average-ish players who fill a role with the team. They’re not going to rely in Hauser to carry them to wins. I just think he’s good at what he does and continuity is preferred over bringing in new players for the hell of it. If the Celtics had a guy who is on a rookie deal who looks on his way to be a 40% 3 pt shooter, then that’s fine, but right now they don’t, so they’ll just have a hole on the roster or need to sign someone at a comparable cost. Hauser is making $10M but the way people talk about it, you’d think he’s making $30. He signed a very reasonable extension. It’s not going to clear too much space to replace him. They’re not likely going to get a 3 pt specialist who is significantly better or worse either.

Pritchard definitely carries concerns due to his size. Sure, if some team wants to give multiple first round picks for him, definitely worth considering. But he’s a good overall player on a rookie contract. It’s logical to keep a player of his caliber and factor him into future building. I don’t think they should be fire sale-ing him like him like they should with some other players.

Look, I’m not here to bash Jaylen Brown, but to suggest officiating is a big factor in his turnover issues is just not accounting for it. It’s very obvious that Brown struggles with his handle, throughout his career, although he improved last year. But guys like Brunson and SGA are literally two of the best ball handlers on the planet while it had always been Brown’s biggest issue. They also make a ton of plays to create shots for teammates. Not the same position or responsibilities. And yes, Brunson and SGA are both annoying AF with their flopping. Both of these things are true.

 

[bresna]

Look, I’m not here to bash Jaylen Brown, but to suggest officiating is a big factor in his turnover issues is just not accounting for it. It’s very obvious that Brown struggles with his handle, throughout his career, although he improved last year. But guys like Brunson and SGA are literally two of the best ball handlers on the planet while it had always been Brown’s biggest issue. They also make a ton of plays to create shots for teammates. Not the same position or responsibilities. And yes, Brunson and SGA are both annoying AF with their flopping. Both of these things are true.

Perception vs reality again...
Brown's regular season turnover average - 2.6/game
Jalen Brunson regular season turnover average - 2.5/game
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander regular season turnover average - 2.4/game

Brown does not turn the ball over as much as we seem to think relative to others in the league.

And again, it was very noticeable in these playoffs but to my eyes, many of those turnovers happened when Brown drove to the hoop, got hacked & lost the ball. That does not suddenly make him a turnover machine.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Perception vs reality again...
Brown's regular season turnover average - 2.6/game
Jalen Brunson regular season turnover average - 2.5/game
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander regular season turnover average - 2.4/game

Brown does not turn the ball over as much as we seem to think relative to others in the league.

And again, it was very noticeable in these playoffs but to my eyes, many of those turnovers happened when Brown drove to the hoop, got hacked & lost the ball. That does not suddenly make him a turnover machine.

Assists

Brunson - 7.3
SGA - 6.4
Brown - 4.5

SGA and Brunson are point guards whose responsibilities are dribbling and passing throughout the game, and almost every possession, while Brown is a shooting guard more in the mold of small forward. Come on, are you really suggesting Brown has anything close to the handle / passing / decision making of these two?

Brown has improved on his turnovers. He still isn’t great at protecting the ball but is no longer a big liability. People shouldn’t be so focused on the last game. In G5 he was great.

My biggest issue with Brown is that he’s a modern NBA wing scoring specialist with a 3 pt pct at 32.4% this year. Since scoring is really his forte and he isn’t a big guy, and the Celtics are built around spreading the perimeter, that number is abysmal. By far the worst among their regular players. And he’s a super max player whose specialty is scoring.

The problem with Brown really isn’t his fault or the team’s fault. He made all nba in 2022-23 which basically necessitated he get a supermax offer from the Celtics. Even though (a) he probably wasn’t even a top 15 player that year and (b) he usually isn’t a top 15 player and (c) even a bubble top 15 player probably isn’t worth a super max contract. That contract amount is really reserved for the very best of the best players like Jokic, Edwards, SGA, Tatum. The voters kind of screwed the Celtics inadvertently. If price is no object like the last two years, fine, but now that they need to make some tough decisions, is it really good value to have Jaylen Brown at the same general contract structure as prime LeBron James, Giannis, Durant, Curry, etc? They already have one player who has earned this, and even Tatum isn’t a fantastic value at that price. He’s worth it, but the ROI starts to be a factor.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Why is it Jalen Brunson is the only NBA player whose arms/hands are constantly tied up with the defender when he’s driving and shooting, but refs give him the benefit of the doubt and whistle the defender as the aggressor?

 

[UrbanCowboy]

Why is it Jalen Brunson is the only NBA player whose arms/hands are constantly tied up with the defender when he’s driving and shooting, but refs give him the benefit of the doubt and whistle the defender as the aggressor?

ha, totally. He even grabs the defenders and then flails, and they fall for it every time.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Kevin Harlan didn’t say anything after that Siakam 3 pointer to put the Pacers up 15. I hope fear he might have killed himself. I’vr never heard a national broadcaster have more bias for a team than this nutlicker when talking about this series. Dude basically had a stroke at the end of G2 and ranted that the away team has a big advantage in the playoffs. Dude couldn’t handle the Indiana crowd changing FLOPPER during Brunson’s free throws. “It isn’t true! And it doesn’t matter!!”

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I would bang that Pacers coach chick

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I think the Pacers are going to beat the Thunder

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Haliburton

32 points
15 assists
12 rebounds
0 turnovers

 

[Clonamery]

I would bang that Pacers coach chick

Good luck with that.

 

[aluminum seats]

Haliburton

32 points
15 assists
12 rebounds
0 turnovers

And 4 steals. Sick game.

 

[bresna]

Why is it Jalen Brunson is the only NBA player whose arms/hands are constantly tied up with the defender when he’s driving and shooting, but refs give him the benefit of the doubt and whistle the defender as the aggressor?

Um... not the only one.


And yet when AntMan drove the length of the floor and was fouled by almost every OKC player, no whistle.

The refereeing this year is especially bad and it does seem to be intentionally one-sided. The integrity of the game should be in question at some point.

 

[1960Pats]

There's perception and there's reality: Jaylen Brown Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Brown's regular season turnover average at 2.6/game, was not that bad compared to previous seasons. He had 3 seasons in a row (2021-2023) where he averaged 2.7, 2.7 & 2.9 turnovers per game. In general, his turnovers are about the same. That is until you look at this year's playoffs. These playoffs, where the refs clearly put away their whistles with regards to Brown down low, his numbers were much worse, with averages of 3.2 against Orlando and a whopping 3.8 against the Knicks.

FWIW, Tatum turned the ball over at a higher rate (2.9/game) this year but I don't hear anyone calling him a turnover machine.

As for Brown's ball handling skills, his assists/game average was up quite a bit this year compared to previous seasons with 4.5/game. His previous high was 3.6/game last year. He has improved a lot in that regard.

Great call on the officiating. Tatum and Brown are very similar and are not suited for the hackeramma that is the 2025 playoffs. I saw multiple games that came down to non-calls on clear hacks.

I also can't stand the histrionics of players who make a shot and act like they're king ****, especially when they get a bounce like Haliburton did a couple of games ago.

But most of all, I can't stand the flopping that goes on in today's game. I remember Philly doing it in hockey years ago but the NHL put a stop to it. The NBA needs to also fix that problem. I didn't really care about who won once the C's were gone, but the Flopper is a very hard guy to root for.