NFL News Is Justin Tucker Deshaun Watson2.0?

[XLIX]

Stop trying to simplify this in some silly ass moral argument.

Interesting how you call an innocent man being falsely accused of a reprehensible crime a "silly ass moral argument".

I'm sure you'd have no problem with your life and career being put on hold for 2 full years if you were accused of a crime you didn't commit. No big deal, right? I mean, what's 2 years? Just a silly ass moral argument!!

His life is NOT destroyed. Get a grip.

I never said his life was destroyed, but he completely missed 2 years of an already-short NFL career due to false allegations and our society's guilty-until-proven-innocent mentality (which you seem quite eager to propagate for some reason). That's a couple hundred thousand he'll never recover.

Like I said: Shame on you for downplaying what this innocent individual went through.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

So, before my response, I just wanna say: I do appreciate you at least bringing something to the table to chew on and in a non-moralized way. I appreciate that.
................(truncated)



They have a Tl;Dr section at the end for the finer points.

I believe exoneration refers to convictions overturned, not total accusations, amny of which don't make it to trial.
From your post,
"
Most experts agree that false rape accusations make the total of 2-10% of the total accusations of rape. As quoted from the handbook:

A multi-site study of eight U.S. communities including 2,059 cases of sexual assault found a 7.1% of false reports (Lonsway, Archambault, & Lisak, 2009)."""

Even if 2% at the low end, or 10% at the high end, that is a great deal of false accusations that can ruins lives and careers.

 

[XLIX]

It is all too easy to forget the false accusations because they go away so quickly. Our very own Julian Edelman was accused of sexual assault and actually arrested and arraigned before video evidence exonerated him completely.

Did that ruin his life? No it didn't. But I know I sure as hell would be pretty upset being arrested for a crime I didn't commit. And in the real world of us regular folks, you could be looking at spending several months worth of salary to pay your lawyer.

 

[lancerman]

I believe exoneration refers to convictions overturned, not total accusations, amny of which don't make it to trial.
From your post,
"
Most experts agree that false rape accusations make the total of 2-10% of the total accusations of rape. As quoted from the handbook:


Even if 2% at the low end, or 10% at the high end, that is a great deal of false accusations that can ruins lives and careers.

It's a decent amount, but it pales in comparison to the amount that aren't false and never see justice. Which equally is someones life being ruined. If someone gets raped, that typically becomes a defining traumatic moment in their lives and they are most likely never going to see justice for it, and tbh you almost never see the people weeping over the 2-10% of potential falsely accused people having much mind for the like 90% of people that were raped and don't see any form of justice. It's always one benefitting an extreme outlier.

On this case, most of the statutes of limitations are done, Tucker had his career so it didn't impact him financially. Does it impact his reputation, yeah. And again, that's going to entirely depend on how credible people find the accusations just like any other type of allegation against someone in life. Obviously as you see in this thread, there's people who are fine looking at 16 accusers and not believing it because they are just always going to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. So even then it works both ways.

And also, in the case of a guy like Tucker or Watson, I would bet that number goes dramatically down the more accusers someone has. When it's a one off he said vs she said, I typically feel like you should just let it play out and see where the evidence goes. When it's a pattern of allegations, I think you can use common sense. The vast majority of people, even famous people never get a false allegation against them, the odds that you get 16 (Tucker) or 40 something (Watson) have to be astronomical.

Again, I would love to see the data on how many rape accusations are false when it's more than 10 separate accusers who all had different incidents over many years that didn't know each other. I'm willing to bet the percentage is near 0% if not in the realm of "never happens"

 

[Vindicate]

I believe exoneration refers to convictions overturned, not total accusations, amny of which don't make it to trial.
From your post,
"
Most experts agree that false rape accusations make the total of 2-10% of the total accusations of rape. As quoted from the handbook:


Even if 2% at the low end, or 10% at the high end, that is a great deal of false accusations that can ruins lives and careers.

If you take the time to examine all those studies, you'll see that you're more likely to be abused, regardless of gender, than be falsely accused. Of the falsely accused, most are exonerated. I'm not saying false accusations don't happen, nor am I saying they aren't frustrating to deal with. I've kept consistent with what I was saying in the first place:

The paranoia with which we speak of accusations, as hinted in lines such as "all you have to do is accuse someone and their life is destroyed", blaming it on """"#believewomen"""", and this idea that it's bad that people come forward years after the fact being this terrible thing because the guy has no chance to defend himself, is a stoked up paranoia point. In reality, these numbers of false accusations are low, and of those, their exoneration happens often.

We're approaching beating a dead horse territory, so with that I'll save the rest of the posters from fatigue.

 

[FortressX]

Cut

Ravens release Justin Tucker

The move comes with Tucker under NFL investigation for misconduct, but the Ravens call it a football decision.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Guts]

Cut

Ravens release Justin Tucker

The move comes with Tucker under NFL investigation for misconduct, but the Ravens call it a football decision.

www.nbcsports.com

If he was still the #1 kicker hands down in the league he wouldn't have gotten cut

 

[Delicate Genius]

Baltimore had to release Tucker. His alleged actions have crossed their organization-imposed line of murder.

 

[gobesmug]

These allegations dropped back in February and the Ravens did not cut him. The fact that they cut him now indicates these rumors must have a ring of truth to them.

 

[sb1]

Unhappy ending for Tucker in Baltimore.

I’ll be here all week…

 

[maust]

Unhappy ending for Tucker in Baltimore.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Baltimore had to release Tucker. His alleged actions have crossed their organization-imposed line of murder.

As far as Ray Lewis, my stance has always been.... AT THE VERY LEAST... his involvement helped destroy whatever chance there was to find out who really did kill those two men that night. Which means, AT THE VERY LEAST, he helped whoever it was... get away with murder.

As far as Justin Tucker, my stance is that if it's one accusation, there is a SMALL CHANCE that he may not have done anything. Vanishingly small, given what women go through by bringing these accusations, but a small chance, nonetheless. It becomes almost impossible for there to be no truth once you start getting into Tucker/Watson territory. Finding that many women willing to come forward indicates a pattern of behavior on the part of the accused.

 

[Huckleberry1]

NFL star accused of inappropriate behavior by six massage therapists

The accusations have been made by therapists from four different high-end spas and wellness centers across the Baltimore region. Two of the spas are said to have banned him from their facilities.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Not jumping here but the likelihood that 6 therapists will just accuse you falsely out of nowhere like this is low.
But we may have Deshaun Watson 2.0 here. Did the accusations have an effect on him this year? I am sure he knew it was coming. He was not himself all year.
Interesting that some of these woman fear that the Ravens will retaliate against them for talking about it.

Agree completely. When that many women are accusing you of these kinds of charges then the person they are charging is responsible for it. The idea they are all lying is preposterous.

 

[farn]

Baltimore had to release Tucker. His alleged actions have crossed their organization-imposed line of murder.

…or murderS

 

[Triumph]

Showing up at Orchid Day Spa with a coupon doesn't seem so egregious anymore.

 

[Bill Lee]

These allegations dropped back in February and the Ravens did not cut him. The fact that they cut him now indicates these rumors must have a ring of truth to them.

C'mon, man, it's a carefully orchestrated sequence of events drawn up by expensive lawyers. The Ravens knew months ago there was enough evidence to get him banned, but didn't want to just let the NFL take away a guy who is a large part of the team's legacy, which is what they would have had to do if this one festered long enough. In any case, the NFL didn't want to touch this one with a ten foot pole. Finally, both of them didn't want a legal challenge from Justin saying they treated him as guilty before any charges were proven or settled. So, the Ravens draft a young kicker late in the draft so he's got a low salary, and then they can say getting rid of a 35 year old kicker with a big salary is a football decision. They even leaked this "football decision" party line a day before cutting him.

In their statement they say "We sincerely wish him and his family the very best in this next chapter of their lives.". So damn cynical. Justin and his family will indeed be moving on to a new chapter in their lives, one where the league and the team who benefited from his services over the years has just put him out with the garbage. Not saying he didn't deserve it, but we should all undertand that the NFL is great at circling its wagons and protecting The Shield.

Ravens Release Justin Tucker

 

[Bill Lee]

At the risk of being redundant I'll point out that Florio is both an ******* and a lawyer. Having said that, he adds a bit more nuance to the timeline. He points out the Ravens benefited from keeping Tucker on the roster for the start of the league year so they could make him a June 1 cut and reduce his cap hit, as opposed to dropping him ASAP. They also waited till after the rookie mini-camp so they could get a better idea of how the rookie kicker will fit in. Also the rookie mini-camp created an opportunity for Harbaugh to announce the party line that any decision on Tucker will be a "football decision". And, of course, if it is a "football decision" the union can't say this is a case of the NFL dropping a player before all the evidence is in. This is all being heavily orchestrated behind the scenes, IMO.

Ravens made a "football decision" (wink, nod) about Justin Tucker

P.R. fallout be damned, the team carefully avoided a potential CBA issue.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[ctpatsfan77]

At the risk of being redundant I'll point out that Florio is both an ******* and a lawyer. Having said that, he adds a bit more nuance to the timeline. He points out the Ravens benefited from keeping Tucker on the roster for the start of the league year so they could make him a June 1 cut and reduce his cap hit, as opposed to dropping him ASAP. They also waited till after the rookie mini-camp so they could get a better idea of how the rookie kicker will fit in. Also the rookie mini-camp created an opportunity for Harbaugh to announce the party line that any decision on Tucker will be a "football decision". And, of course, if it is a "football decision" the union can't say this is a case of the NFL dropping a player before all the evidence is in. This is all being heavily orchestrated behind the scenes, IMO.

Ravens made a "football decision" (wink, nod) about Justin Tucker

P.R. fallout be damned, the team carefully avoided a potential CBA issue.

www.nbcsports.com

For the record, the standard termination form players receive lists five potential reasons for being cut (my comments in italics):

□ You have failed to establish or maintain your excellent physical condition to the satisfaction of the Club physician. [FWIW, this is the one that was used with Andrews and Bentley, and they haven't filed a grievance AFAIK.]

□ You have failed to make full and complete disclosure of your physical or mental condition during a physical examination.

□ In the judgment of the Club, your skill or performance has been unsatisfactory as compared with that of other players competing for positions on the Club’s roster. [I would guess this one would apply to Tucker.]

□ You have engaged in personal conduct which, in the reasonable judgment of the Club, adversely affects or reflects on the Club.

□ In the Club’s opinion, you are anticipated to make less of a contribution to the Club’s ability to compete on the playing field than another player or players whom the Club intends to sign or attempts to sign, or already on the roster of the Club, and for whom the Club needs Room. [Terribly worded, but what do you expect from a CBA that doesn't even bother to say "This is the maximum number of times a player can be franchised"?]

 

[Hammer of Thor]

For the record, the standard termination form players receive lists five potential reasons for being cut (my comments in italics):

□ You have failed to establish or maintain your excellent physical condition to the satisfaction of the Club physician. [FWIW, this is the one that was used with Andrews and Bentley, and they haven't filed a grievance AFAIK.]

□ You have failed to make full and complete disclosure of your physical or mental condition during a physical examination.

□ In the judgment of the Club, your skill or performance has been unsatisfactory as compared with that of other players competing for positions on the Club’s roster. [I would guess this one would apply to Tucker.]

□ You have engaged in personal conduct which, in the reasonable judgment of the Club, adversely affects or reflects on the Club.

□ In the Club’s opinion, you are anticipated to make less of a contribution to the Club’s ability to compete on the playing field than another player or players whom the Club intends to sign or attempts to sign, or already on the roster of the Club, and for whom the Club needs Room. [Terribly worded, but what do you expect from a CBA that doesn't even bother to say "This is the maximum number of times a player can be franchised"?]

Dumb question, but what is the difference between 3 and 5, since 5 also covers players currently on the roster? Is number 5 just saying your performance has been equally satisfactory, or even better, compared to another player but your overall contribution is expected to be less?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Dumb question, but what is the difference between 3 and 5, since 5 also covers players currently on the roster? Is number 5 just saying your performance has been equally satisfactory, or even better, compared to another player but your overall contribution is expected to be less?

If I understand it correctly, the difference is (3) refers to a player already on the roster at that position. (5) could be for any player at any position (e.g., when a team releases someone to activate another player off IR).