Shemar Stewart: We Need To Have The Conversation

[bakes781]

He's on par with Mason Graham vs the run. It's his pass rush technique that he needs to refine. That said he's an every down player IMO. Unlike Pearce and possibly Mike Green.

I take that back IMO Green is an every down player.

The difference with Shemar is he doesn't always lineup wide of the tackle so he's not asked to rush the passer as much as your traditional EDGE.

 

[bakes781]

33 hurries is right on par with the guy that had 17 sacks!

 

[bakes781]

From now until draft day I'm going to keep my Shemar Stewart obsession limited to this thread.

This clip I just took was at the end of regulation up by 3. Stewart forces the QB out of the pocket despite getting chipped by the RB. These are game saving type of plays!

 

[bakes781]

 

[manxman2601]

It’s when you see plays like this and you wonder what he might become. Shemar Stewart bull rushing the LT and LG and forcing the QB off his spot.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Traits > productivity. This is true for almost every position and for a simple reason more than most others.

A)I can teach an athletic kid to be productive. You'll never teach someone to be "athletic."

B)I'd rather have a super athletic "floor" to work with > someone with plus productivity but not an NFL athlete or mid-athlete. The bottom is dropping out a lot faster on the guy without NFL athleticism. How many NFL starters are you going against in college? Well now you're playing them every down and they're the most athletic freaks around.

C)Most big sack #'s are from guys who have coaches to just "go get the QB"

He does great running and jumping in pads too, it just hasn't translated to infield production...yet. I accept what you say, and the reason for his lack of production does need to be explored, but having Myles Garrett levels of athleticism at least makes doing that exploration a worthy endeavour rather than just dismissing out of hand.

I don't use "edge rusher" for a reason. A simple but very important reason. So many guys move around and produce elsewhere besides the "edge." It's a lot more common now but why I've always use "rush" > "edge rusher." Carter is going top 4 and is a decent example of that. You can rush him all over.

Also and I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned but the position has changed so much. As much as QB and Tackle. He didn't "produce" a crazy # of sacks bc he simply wasn't asked to do so. If you watched his tape, defense and conference. College coaches have guys like him play the 4i/6 taking on double teams, playing on the inside shoulder etc. College is a lot more worried about rpo, options and QBs that can run. Gone are the days where teams want two guys flying off the edge. And it's been like that for a minute now. Again anyone that watches tape sees the difference in tackles and obviously QBs. It's a different game. Everything is quick, get the ball out as fast as possible. It stands to reason coaches look at the game different and probably aren't teaching their guys how to use their hands and extend their bag of tools to rush the passer. So we know why he wasn't productive at a level we want from his film and just the nature of the game at that level.

I have him and Green as "trade back" targets bc 4 is so murky in terms of value.

 

[Username]

I heard Chris Simms raving about this kid and his take on the lack of production is "disruption is production". If someone else gets a sack because they have a clean run at the QB while you've thrown the tackle on his ass and have the G and C fighting for their lives to block you, you don't get the stat but the sack is down to you more than the guy who gets it. And this dudes tape is full of plays like that.

Not sure I fully agree, but he's an very intriguing prospect. 4 is far too rich to roll the dice but a trade back would interest me.

 

[manxman2601]

Traits > productivity. This is true for almost every position and for a simple reason more than most others.

A)I can teach an athletic kid to be productive. You'll never teach someone to be "athletic."

B)I'd rather have a super athletic "floor" to work with > someone with plus productivity but not an NFL athlete or mid-athlete. The bottom is dropping out a lot faster on the guy without NFL athleticism. How many NFL starters are you going against in college? Well now you're playing them every down and they're the most athletic freaks around.

C)Most big sack #'s are from guys who have coaches to just "go get the QB"

I don't use "edge rusher" for a reason. A simple but very important reason. So many guys move around and produce elsewhere besides the "edge." It's a lot more common now but why I've always use "rush" > "edge rusher." Carter is going top 4 and is a decent example of that. You can rush him all over.

Also and I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned but the position has changed so much. As much as QB and Tackle. He didn't "produce" a crazy # of sacks bc he simply wasn't asked to do so. If you watched his tape, defense and conference. College coaches have guys like him play the 4i/6 taking on double teams, playing on the inside shoulder etc. College is a lot more worried about rpo, options and QBs that can run. Gone are the days where teams want two guys flying off the edge. And it's been like that for a minute now. Again anyone that watches tape sees the difference in tackles and obviously QBs. It's a different game. Everything is quick, get the ball out as fast as possible. It stands to reason coaches look at the game different and probably aren't teaching their guys how to use their hands and extend their bag of tools to rush the passer. So we know why he wasn't productive at a level we want from his film and just the nature of the game at that level.

I have him and Green as "trade back" targets bc 4 is so murky in terms of value.

All this is true but it’s undeniable, watching Stewart’s tape, that he has issues with finishing. There are plenty of missed tackles on RBs and QBs on tape. I’m a fan of Stewart and I think he has a realistic floor of Jadeveon Clowney while having almost unlimited upside. I just wished he finished better so that I can believe in the upside more.

I heard Chris Simms raving about this kid and his take on the lack of production is "disruption is production". If someone else gets a sack because they have a clean run at the QB while you've thrown the tackle on his ass and have the G and C fighting for their lives to block you, you don't get the stat but the sack is down to you more than the guy who gets it. And this dudes tape is full of plays like that.

Not sure I fully agree, but he's a very intriguing prospect. 4 is far too rich to roll the dice but a trade back would interest me.

i agree in part. I would like to see a better ability to finish some of his rushes though. He missed plenty of opportunities to get a sack or tfl.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

All this is true but it’s undeniable, watching Stewart’s tape, that he has issues with finishing. There are plenty of missed tackles on RBs and QBs on tape. I’m a fan of Stewart and I think he has a realistic floor of Jadeveon Clowney while having almost unlimited upside. I just wished he finished better so that I can believe in the upside more.

i agree in part. I would like to see a better ability to finish some of his rushes though. He missed plenty of opportunities to get a sack or tfl.

I think we would all like more finish. That goes without saying. Responding to your comment about "his lack of production being explored." There's an easy explanation for that, watching his film and what he was asked to do. If you're asked to play the run as a priority in the 4i or closer to the line. You won't be getting off as quickly as everyone else and like I said above. His coaches probably weren't spending a lot of time teaching him as a "pass rusher." That seems evident but who knows? Should be noted that Scourton's production dropped in half last year as well in terms of sacks.

Look he lacks complete finish as a run defender as well. He took a big step forward this year but he's got work to do there as well. The lack of finish is just a result of what his role was and refinement on his part. That's not a secret. You're going to have to teach him a lot. Drveloping his hands, finding a legit counter to his power are all very coachable. You're more worried about his awareness and iq imo. By all accounts he's a hard worker that will buy in. I'm comfortable with taking him outside the top 15 depending on who's there but he would be someone I would target. The league will as well considering where it's going and we just had Walker go #1 very recently. So the league likes his type.

 

[manxman2601]

I think we would all like more finish. That goes without saying. Responding to your comment about "his lack of production being explored." There's an easy explanation for that, watching his film and what he was asked to do. If you're asked to play the run as a priority in the 4i or closer to the line. You won't be getting off as quickly as everyone else and like I said above. His coaches probably weren't spending a lot of time teaching him as a "pass rusher." That seems evident but who knows? Should be noted that Scourton's production dropped in half last year as well in terms of sacks.

Look he lacks complete finish as a run defender as well. He took a big step forward this year but he's got work to do there as well. The lack of finish is just a result of what his role was and refinement on his part. That's not a secret. You're going to have to teach him a lot. Drveloping his hands, finding a legit counter to his power are all very coachable. You're more worried about his awareness and iq imo. By all accounts he's a hard worker that will buy in. I'm comfortable with taking him outside the top 15 depending on who's there but he would be someone I would target. The league will as well considering where it's going and we just had Walker go #1 very recently. So the league likes his type.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan and think his floor is acceptable as a mid-late round one prospect. I think I’d prefer him over any edge rusher/DE not named Abdul Carter although only over Green because of character questions. It would be close between Stewart and Mylel Williams because of his athletic upside.