Vrabel's Staff Discussion Thread (Discuss related news here)

[PWRxWLF]

I am not sure. Marcus Brady looks like he might be a good choice. Maybe Brian Griese or Nick Caley. I am not as familiar with the available candidates from the Shanahan or McVay systems.

I’m not excited to bring aboard a first time playcaller again.

 

[Grogan14]

If its not McDaniel I am hoping for Nick Caley

 

[Brotherblues]

So with the Detroit staff now free...

Do we look in there for an OC?

Then again we may only be looking at the 3rd best option in the building (if that). The best understudy will either go with Johnson or become the next Lions OC. Second best takes whatever the other one didn't.

So yeah, not sure it's worth to dumpster dive looking for the leftover guys.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

I asked Claude - it did a pretty good job here:

The Shanahan/McVay offensive system and the McDaniels system have some distinct philosophical and schematic differences:


Shanahan/McVay System:

• Built around an elite outside zone running game that uses specific blocking techniques and requires athletic linemen who can move laterally
• Heavy use of play-action passes and bootlegs that flow directly from the running game, creating easier reads for the quarterback
• Extensive use of pre-snap motion and shifts to diagnose defense and create favorable matchups
• Emphasizes "marriage of run and pass" where running plays and passes look identical at the start, making it harder for defenses to read
• Often uses condensed formations (receivers lined up closer to offensive line) to help with blocking and create more space for receivers to work

McDaniels System (derived from the Erhardt-Perkins system):

• More varied in run scheme approach, mixing power, gap, and zone concepts rather than focusing primarily on outside zone
• Greater emphasis on option routes where receivers adjust their routes based on coverage
• More complex passing concepts that put more responsibility on the quarterback to make multiple reads
• Less reliant on play-action, though still uses it
• More spread concepts and empty formations (no running backs in backfield)
• Terminology is concept-based rather than play-based, allowing for quicker adjustments

The Shanahan/McVay system is generally considered more "quarterback friendly" as it creates clearer reads and more defined throwing lanes, while the McDaniels system typically requires more from the quarterback pre and post-snap but potentially offers more flexibility in attacking defenses.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Think you’re taking away the wrong conclusion.

Adams claimed that the system only works with a great QB and they’d be much more successful with a different scheme. They changed schemes and got worse. So seems like maybe that’s not the case.

I agree with the first part of his claim that mcdaniels system requires really smart qb and smart wr which the pats don’t have. We saw this issue after the 2019 season where the qb and wr were not so smart that players drafted had issues learning the offense. I would think it’s much more complex than what the pats ran last year and baker still had issues learning the playbook apparently.
I would strongly consider the guy they interviewed from the chargers, I don’t really know why they would want someone from the bears offense

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

So with the Detroit staff now free...

Do we look in there for an OC?

Then again we may only be looking at the 3rd best option in the building (if that). The best understudy will either go with Johnson or become the next Lions OC. Second best takes whatever the other one didn't.

So yeah, not sure it's worth to dumpster dive looking for the leftover guys.

I am not familiar with their staff but if they have a run oder pass game coordinator I would really want to interview them

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

I asked Claude - it did a pretty good job here:

The Shanahan/McVay offensive system and the McDaniels system have some distinct philosophical and schematic differences:


Shanahan/McVay System:

• Built around an elite outside zone running game that uses specific blocking techniques and requires athletic linemen who can move laterally
• Heavy use of play-action passes and bootlegs that flow directly from the running game, creating easier reads for the quarterback
• Extensive use of pre-snap motion and shifts to diagnose defense and create favorable matchups
• Emphasizes "marriage of run and pass" where running plays and passes look identical at the start, making it harder for defenses to read
• Often uses condensed formations (receivers lined up closer to offensive line) to help with blocking and create more space for receivers to work

McDaniels System (derived from the Erhardt-Perkins system):

• More varied in run scheme approach, mixing power, gap, and zone concepts rather than focusing primarily on outside zone
• Greater emphasis on option routes where receivers adjust their routes based on coverage
• More complex passing concepts that put more responsibility on the quarterback to make multiple reads
• Less reliant on play-action, though still uses it
• More spread concepts and empty formations (no running backs in backfield)
• Terminology is concept-based rather than play-based, allowing for quicker adjustments

The Shanahan/McVay system is generally considered more "quarterback friendly" as it creates clearer reads and more defined throwing lanes, while the McDaniels system typically requires more from the quarterback pre and post-snap but potentially offers more flexibility in attacking defenses.

The biggest problem after Brady and lacking quality wr was that the decision the wr make to adjust their route depending on how they read the coverage required the qb to read the coverage the same way. This has failed much more than it worked and I don’t see that working with the current room of wr either and it would put a lot of pressure on young Drake maye

 

[ALP]

The biggest problem after Brady and lacking quality wr was that the decision the wr make to adjust their route depending on how they read the coverage required the qb to read the coverage the same way. This has failed much more than it worked and I don’t see that working with the current room of wr either and it would put a lot of pressure on young Drake maye

Agreed. We just can’t find, and maybe WRs with that intelligence simply don’t exist because college offenses never use that skillset

No more adjusting routes mid play

 

[Huckleberry1]

The difference is that that’s way beyond the timeframe where all the date limitations have passed… Vrabel is still subject to limitations of timeframes based on who is still playing

Exactly. Lazar’s posts on this are idiotic.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I do believe RK would love a cheap contract he would get hiring JM
Saying that
If it is McDaniels
There is no way Vrabel took this job to allow Kraft to make the call on who is going to be his OC
If it is Josh. Vrabel wanted him because he feels he is the best fit
If it is not JM then Vrabes did not think it was a good fit

I don’t believe anyone is making the decisions for Vrabel. I don’t believe his powers are as expansive as those he gave Belichick, where he controlled literally every aspect of football operations, but I think Vrabel has total control over personnel and coaches. If Vrabel decides that he wants MacDaniels I won’t ***** about it, but I won’t like the decision either.

 

[Huckleberry1]

If its not McDaniel I am hoping for Nick Caley

That’s who I want as well. Up and coming coordinator who will bring a West Coast variant offense to the Patriots.

 

[TomPatriot]

Can't really say Bob Bicknell did a bad job. HH had a resurgent year and Hooper had his best year since 2019. Combined they had over 110 catches, 1100yds and 5tds.

I wonder if the new OC is going to pick his position coaches and this gives him a clean slate.

 

[TomPatriot]

Davante Adams Explains How Josh McDaniels' System Held Back the Raiders' Offense - Raiders Beat

The Raiders $100 million offense ended up being the weakness of the team this...

www.raidersbeat.com

“We couldn’t be consistent enough on offense to be a playoff-level team. We definitely had the pieces. In my opinion, I think it’s going to be a whole new year next year. The system itself made it hard enough for us to succeed. You need a Tom Brady or an Aaron Rodgers to go in there and have your quarterback hit on every cylinder that consistently. That offense is just a nickel and dime offense…

I feel like based on what we have personnel wise, we could have done a lot better, but the scheme itself kind of held us back. We worked with what he had and we definitely didn’t execute the best that we could have at all times. Next year with a little bit of a different scheme on offense mixed with what we have personnel wise, I think we’ll be able to unlock a different version of our team.”

Raiders we’re 27th in points and 29th in yards in 2024. I guess it wasn’t the scheme or the coaching.

 

[TomPatriot]

Actually, it's me. Been trying to keep it under wraps, but I can't hold it in anymore, I'm the new offensive coordinator for the New England Patriots.

Hi Matt! Welcome back!

 

[Rob0729]

The biggest problem after Brady and lacking quality wr was that the decision the wr make to adjust their route depending on how they read the coverage required the qb to read the coverage the same way. This has failed much more than it worked and I don’t see that working with the current room of wr either and it would put a lot of pressure on young Drake maye

The thing is with Brady, he was good enough to elevate talent. Even when he was playing, the receivers who could handle the McDaniels system weren't always the best receivers. Brady made them better than they were.

Look at OchoCinco. In his prime, he was one of the best receivers in history. He couldn't handle the system. Sure he was near the end when he came to the Patriots, but he would have struggled in his prime because he couldn't do things like presnap reads.

I think that McDaniels can tailor his offense for Maye. But I don't know if his offense puts Maye in the best position to succeed and not being able to give him the most talented receivers because not every receiver can succeed in McDaniels' offense is a reason for that.

 

[TomPatriot]

All I heard on the radio today is how the Pats made a farce of the Rooney rule, what the hell are they supposed to do? They had to interview minority candidates whether they were serious or not. Not sure if they were arguing the should have made it less obvious or not but it doesn't matter either way.

They're not violating anything. This is nothing but a Bert Breer talking point They’re interviewing two potential offensive coordinators who are African-American. Not respecting the spirit of Rooney Rile would be interviewing Michael Holley and Jerome Wiggins for the job.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I wonder if the new OC is going to pick his position coaches and this gives him a clean slate.

Probably. It'll be a collaboration. If the new OC has his guys, Vrabes will interview them. If the OC or DC doesn't then Vrabes will suggest someone

 

[bakes781]

So with the Detroit staff now free...

Do we look in there for an OC?

Then again we may only be looking at the 3rd best option in the building (if that). The best understudy will either go with Johnson or become the next Lions OC. Second best takes whatever the other one didn't.

So yeah, not sure it's worth to dumpster dive looking for the leftover guys.

I believe they have our DC.

Terrell Williams

He worked under Vrabel at Tennessee

Here he is at a press conference earlier this season.

 

[Thelonious]

First we have to stop whining about the worthless Rooney Rule, giving it only such token compliance as it warrants, then getting on to matters of actual importance. Then we need to wait, which is fine by me. At least we are not waiting to see what Mayo will do, and that makes all the difference.

 

[Rob0729]

They're not violating anything. This is nothing but a Bert Breer talking point They’re interviewing two potential offensive coordinators who are African-American. Not respecting the spirit of Rooney Rile would be interviewing Michael Holley and Jerome Wiggins for the job.

Yeah, Breer is just making a hot take for attention.

Besides, if the Patriots are flaunting the rules because they interviewed two minority candidates who were never realistically in consideration for the position, that is an indictment on the rule and not the Patriots.

I am for more minority coaches getting top jobs. But if you make a rule that invites teams that are targeting a specific coach who isn't a minority to do what the Patriots did, you might want to revise the rule.