The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[One-If-By-Sea]

A lesser role is fine but he f'd up this draft pretty good.

Wolf f'd up this FA pretty good too.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I’m just really giddy about the idea of Josh McDaniels developing Drake Maye to be honest. Sure he’s not a “west coast” guy so you lose some of the bootleg stuff but I think Drake will be way more successful being a cerebral passer first and foremost who tucks and runs second, not just scrambling around all over the place like Russell Wilson.

He’s going to get killed if he doesn’t learn to run less and slide more.

 

[Froob]

Been murmurs Vrabel wants that KC assistant GM I believe they have some kind of history?

 

[Sect140]

This to me is one of if not the top priority for an incoming coach. They must be able to put together a staff that can develop players. You cannot rely on free agency, you have to be able to draft and develop players, and owners, management; and fans have to have the patience to allow that to happen. Other than the first round you are not drafting immediate starters, you are drafting prospects you can develop into good players. And this idea that any player who isn’t contributing significantly their first season is a bust is complete and utter ********. Take the players drafted after the first round and go through each team and you will find that the vast majority are not contributing significantly their rookie seasons. Does this mean they are all busts? According to many in this forum that’s exactly what it means, but the reality is that a good number of those players develop into good contributors, and the rest wash out. What makes the difference is a coaching staff that can develop them, and given that no one on the Patriots played better in 2024, and none of the rookies other than Maye developed this season, it was clear that Mayo and his staff were completely unable to teach and develop players. Belichick had his issues drafting, but I would argue that few if any coaching staff’s were better at turning players into good pro’s who could contribute to the team’s success. Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Green Bay, and possible a couple others were able to do the same, but overall most teams in the league fail at this, and that’s why they rarely win anything. Scarnecchia by himself probably developed more guys into players who could contribute than most coaching staffs do.

I didn’t like, and don’t like instability in coaching staffs and front office personnel, for a bunch of reasons,. I wanted Mayo to get a real chance to succeed, but the failure of he and his staff in every respect left Kraft with no choice but to fire him. Now, by all appearances, they are going to go with Vrabel, and I think he’s a good choice for them, but both the owners and fans alike need to have the patience to allow him to succeed or fail. He’s going to want to build his vision of a great football team. He has the most important piece of that in Maye, and they have both the money and draft capitol to address many of their needs this offseason, but they aren’t going to become a true contender overnight. People need to realize this, and not throw them overboard at the first signs of adversity. That said I think they are going to take a good step forward next season, and will be in the hunt for a wildcard in December. Whether they get one or not is a question to be answered then, but I don’t believe we will see a repeat of this season. I think we will see a team with more talent, a better work ethic, more intensity, and fewer mistakes. I do think Vrabel will put together a staff that can develop players, but that process still won’t be instantaneous, and some players will progress, while others fall by the wayside. Building a championship caliber team takes time, which is why there is no need to act out of desperation, as their future won’t live or die by next years results, but by putting together a much better team piece by piece over the next few years.

Great post. My question is will Bob have the patience at his age.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

He’s going to get killed if he doesn’t learn to run less and slide more.

Agreed. That is one area where he looks like a young QB that needs to mature. I thought Milton looked more under control while scrambling but Milton is older.

 

[jdlboot14]

a pessimistic view is: Vrabel is a "safe pick" and a "retread"
a sensible view is: Vrabel is a "stable pick" and "experienced"

At this stage of the Pats last 5 years of chaos and turnover - the sensible choice is also the necessary one.
Don't get disillusioned by the potential of a fancy play-designer. He also spent 2 previous years losing and building the trenches.

Vrabel WILL rebuild the trenches - OL & DL need to be overhauled for any offensive splash to be seen.

 

[Love The Drake]

We should rebuild the trenches, and WR alike.
I want to hear McDaniels say he’s here long term if he comes.
Maye needs stability,

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

 

[RobertWeathers]

I've officially flipped to Vrabes from supporting Johnson.

While I think Johnson is amazing, Vrabel provides much needed structure, accountability, leadership, and credibility as a coach that this team and organization desperately needs at this moment.

 

[Kdo5]

Would I have liked a more extensive search? Absolutely. Will I be upset? No. Vrabel is a good coach who will turn us from a team in the cellar to a wild card caliber one.

This beggar will be okay with that. I can’t stand watching more football seasons where we are eliminated in early November.

 

[Family]

I've officially flipped to Vrabes from supporting Johnson.

While I think Johnson is amazing, Vrabel provides much needed structure, accountability, leadership, and credibility as a coach that this team and organization desperately needs at this moment.

I get the feeling Vrabel and the Krafts will get along fine, but not so much with BJ.

Just a feeling, but he doesn't seem their type of guy.

 

[Real fan 02]

High picked the wrong year to try his hand at coaching. Between injuries and game plans that didn't adjust to stop what the other team was doing, the LB's were not in the position to be successful. Poor line play also contributed to the LB position looking like a disaster. He may be worth another year as part of a well structured coaching staff.

I believe he was lured into it by his good friend mayo. I'm sure he will end up being a good coach at the LB level. Yeah it was terrible year for the defense they never stopped anything the run the pass.. teams could do whatever they wanted. What I like about Vrabel is the defense will become much, much better especially at LB.

 

[KCSVEN]

Lions 2024: 534 Rushing attempts, 551 Passing attempts (49.21% rushing)
Titans 2021: 551 rush and 535 pass. (50.373% rushing)
Crazy how total plays is almost exact.
Lions threw 1+ times more every 2 games vs rushing.

Henry only played half the year and they ran just as much with or without Henry that year.

 

[Clonamery]

I've officially flipped to Vrabes from supporting Johnson.

While I think Johnson is amazing, Vrabel provides much needed structure, accountability, leadership, and credibility as a coach that this team and organization desperately needs at this moment.

There's a game Monday night so I doubt they announce anything before Tuesday.

 

[Love The Drake]

This is the gap my friend reported the 15 mill as opposed to 10 mill a year.
Just meet him at 12 or 12.5 come on.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I get the feeling Vrabel and the Krafts will get along fine, but not so much with BJ.

Just a feeling, but he doesn't seem their type of guy.

....and I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Right now the Kraft's have been humbled and their cheese needs to be moved.

Krafts need to embrace new perspectives and approaches. My belief is Vrabel has the outside experiences, the political savvy, communication skills, credibility, and relationships to challenge the Kraft's current thinking.

Johnson would need success but is so freaking smart he'd be convincing but doesn't have what Vrabel has going for him.

 

[upstater1]

Wolf f'd up this FA pretty good too.

I want to know what Alonzo Highsmith's hand was in all of this.

He came on very late.

If they hire a new top guy, first interview I have is with Highsmith.

Would Highsmith throw Wolf under the bus?

 

[Zuma]

This is the gap my friend reported the 15 mill as opposed to 10 mill a year.
Just meet him at 12 or 12.5 come on.

They probably already have an agreement…just not announced till tomorrow or Tuesday.

 

[upstater1]

....and I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Right now the Kraft's have been humbled.

Krafts need to embrace new perspectives and approaches. My belief is Vrabel has the outside experiences, the political savvy, communication skills, credibility, and relationships to challenge the Kraft's current thinking.

Johnson would need success but is so freaking smart he'd be convincing but doesn't have what Vrabel has going for him.

If the Patriots already had a football structure in place, there'd be a LOT more comfort with bringing on Johnson.

But right now, the best thing for the Patriots is a structure that takes as much as possible off their plate, and they need a new President. Hopefully a guy about 50 years old who would stay on and oversee things past the next coaching search.

That President can't be Jonathan

 

[lancerman]

Wolf f'd up this FA pretty good too.

He f'd up this season pretty good too