NFL News OT: Welker among coaches fired in Miami

[PatsFan2]

Josh McDaniels + Wes Welker seems like a good pairing. Welker has such a mastery of McDaniels' system from a WR point of view.

Where do I sign??

 

[Real fan 02]

Wes Welker could probably get Pop Douglas to the next Level him bing that legendary Slot Receiver. It's all about having good Position Coaches now dump all those stiffs.

If Josh comes as OC I can definitely see welker coming.

 

[Wozzy]

Sht rolls downhill…

That team sucks at the top, start with the meddling owner and then the GM, but Mike McDaniels is a “player’s coach,” which explains why you have players like Tyreek pulling himself from games.

Players don’t need friends, or cool hip young voices they can talk to.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I'd love to see WwW back up here. He was a great and now underappreciated Pat and he seems to be a decent enough coach.

Only if he wears that big helmet on the sidelines; would be Epic!

 

[Ring 6]

Sure. Shanahan has been known for his collapses in play calling in big games dating back to Atlanta/Pats Super Bowl. In fact, every big game his been in, his play calling has been the problem as the games got tight. He fired Steve Wilks last season as the scapegoat when the Chiefs suffocated Shanahan's offense and now they fired Nick Sorenson when their offense collapsed all season long. Shanahan can't fire himself, so he has to throw someone under the bus. Only one reporter in SF calls Shanahan and players out all the time and he is hated because he speaks up. Eventually, Shanahan is going to run out of excuses.

Now we have McDaniel firing Welker. Welker was not the reason why Hill and Waddle had bad seasons. Broadcasts mentioned defenses were taking them out because Tua was gone, they don't have a running game so defenses wouldn't bite on play action and they don't have have enforcer to command the middle of the field. McDaniel is a fine coach, but his teams have been flaming out since his arrival because he runs out of tricks up his sleeve once teams stop his initial attack.

So you think Shanahan isnt taking responsibility? How would he do so? Hold a press conference and criticize himself? Fire himself? Keep everyone in place and announce it’s all his fault and the organizations plan is that he just decided to do better? Or should he, as the person RESPONSIBLE for the decision making do what he thinks is right?
Wilks was widely knoen to have been a terrible fit in their system. Their run defense down the stretch was horrific. This years defense was 29th in points allowed while the injury ravaged offense was 13th.
My question is if you claim he NEEDS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY what exactly are you saying he needs to don to satisfy you.

 

[TheRainMaker]

So you think Shanahan isnt taking responsibility? How would he do so? Hold a press conference and criticize himself? Fire himself? Keep everyone in place and announce it’s all his fault and the organizations plan is that he just decided to do better? Or should he, as the person RESPONSIBLE for the decision making do what he thinks is right?
Wilks was widely knoen to have been a terrible fit in their system. Their run defense down the stretch was horrific. This years defense was 29th in points allowed while the injury ravaged offense was 13th.
My question is if you claim he NEEDS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY what exactly are you saying he needs to don to satisfy you.

I already explained in my prior post he can’t fire himself. Firing other coaches isn’t going to help his offensive collapses.

 

[Ring 6]

I already explained in my prior post he can’t fire himself. Firing other coaches isn’t going to help his offensive collapses.

Changing defensive coordinators is designed to make the defense better.


Big again you are missing my point. What exactly do you want him to do to take the responsibility you claim he is shirking?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Changing defensive coordinators is designed to make the defense better.


Big again you are missing my point. What exactly do you want him to do to take the responsibility you claim he is shirking?

I’ve answered it. He’s offenses have been as much as a problem as the defense.

Saleh was the DC in 2019 and their defense collapsed in the Super Bowl. Offense had multiple opportunities to stop the bleeding and put it away, but couldn’t.

Defense collapsed again last year when the offense was getting locked down by Spags.

The defense wasn’t great, but the offense sputtered many times this season against the Rams twice, Seahawks, Vikings, Bills, Packers, Dolphins, Chiefs again and Cardinals. There’s at least 4 games from that list the offense had an opportunity to win or put the game away, but couldn’t.

 

[Pape]

I already explained in my prior post he can’t fire himself. Firing other coaches isn’t going to help his offensive collapses.

This is a good point... Don't really know enough about SF this year to speak on their woes, so to circle this back to the topic in the lede... Miami axing Welker... And you are right, taking responsibility as the HC is key for growth... working out why things happened is another... Being loyal to the guys who have supported you is part of that...

Wes Welker was let go, why though... McDaniel was most definitely feeling the pressure from ownership to "do something"... Welker wasn't the problem in 2022 and 2023 when Reek and Waddle were tearing it up, but all of a sudden, its his fault? Complete scapegoating... He deserved better...

 

[Ring 6]

I’ve answered it. He’s offenses have been as much as a problem as the defense.

Saleh was the DC in 2019 and their defense collapsed in the Super Bowl. Offense had multiple opportunities to stop the bleeding and put it away, but couldn’t.

Defense collapsed again last year when the offense was getting locked down by Spags.

The defense wasn’t great, but the offense sputtered many times this season against the Rams twice, Seahawks, Vikings, Bills, Packers, Dolphins, Chiefs again and Cardinals.

No you didn’t answer it at all
I didn’t ask for you to give me your opinion of who deserves credit or blame in San Francisco.

I asked you, pointedly, to address your comment that he needs to start taking responsibility.

First, I dispute he isn’t taking responsibility for his job , but my question to you is since you are claiming he isn’t, what EXACTLY do you want him to do to convince you that he is taking responsibility for his job.
What particularly actions would be necessary to change your mind that he doesn’t take responsibility for his job, the team, its performance and results?

 

[TheRainMaker]

No you didn’t answer it at all
I didn’t ask for you to give me your opinion of who deserves credit or blame in San Francisco.

I asked you, pointedly, to address your comment that he needs to start taking responsibility.

First, I dispute he isn’t taking responsibility for his job , but my question to you is since you are claiming he isn’t, what EXACTLY do you want him to do to convince you that he is taking responsibility for his job.
What particularly actions would be necessary to change your mind that he doesn’t take responsibility for his job, the team, its performance and results?

Simple. Tell the media and fans he needs to do a better job calling plays and putting his offense in better situations to score points late in games.

He won’t do that though.

 

[Ring 6]

This is a good point... Don't really know enough about SF this year to speak on their woes, so to circle this back to the topic in the lede... Miami axing Welker... And you are right, taking responsibility as the HC is key for growth... working out why things happened is another... Being loyal to the guys who have supported you is part of that...

Wes Welker was let go, why though... McDaniel was most definitely feeling the pressure from ownership to "do something"... Welker wasn't the problem in 2022 and 2023 when Reek and Waddle were tearing it up, but all of a sudden, its his fault? Complete scapegoating... He deserved better...

If the HC determines that one of his assistants is not performing to his standards, what should he do to “take responsibility”

Ultimately my point is that this common trope “he should take responsibility” is silly, vague and rhetorical.
I am 100% sure that he accepts responsibility for his team and its performance. Firing an assistant isn’t way of saying “see it wasn’t my fault, I’m good” because he is responsible for the assistants and the players they coach regardless.
Not taking responsibility is Mayo and Covington saying the schemes and play calls are fine it’s the execution. That is throwing players under the bus to distance yourself from your teams results.
Which is ironic because coaching execution is more important than coaching schemes or calling plays, but I digress.

McDaniel isn’t distancing himself from the results by firing Welker he is taking responsibility for the problem by doing the only thing he can, replacing the coach he feels isn’t getting the job done.
If McDaniel is the problem and Welker was doing a good job, ultimately McDaniel will get fired.

 

[Pape]

If the HC determines that one of his assistants is not performing to his standards, what should he do to “take responsibility”

Ultimately my point is that this common trope “he should take responsibility” is silly, vague and rhetorical.
I am 100% sure that he accepts responsibility for his team and its performance. Firing an assistant isn’t way of saying “see it wasn’t my fault, I’m good” because he is responsible for the assistants and the players they coach regardless.
Not taking responsibility is Mayo and Covington saying the schemes and play calls are fine it’s the execution. That is throwing players under the bus to distance yourself from your teams results.
Which is ironic because coaching execution is more important than coaching schemes or calling plays, but I digress.

McDaniel isn’t distancing himself from the results by firing Welker he is taking responsibility for the problem by doing the only thing he can, replacing the coach he feels isn’t getting the job done.
If McDaniel is the problem and Welker was doing a good job, ultimately McDaniel will get fired.

It might be a "trope", but its more of a common saying...

A coach taking responsibility is something we'll never know for sure, unless you have a personal connection to those making the decisions, so saying that you are "100% sure" he takes responsibility is as much of a "trope" as saying "he should take responsibility"... And it certainly doe not look like it... I don't know enough about SF to opine on them, besides I'm pretty sure the wheels started moving in that front office the moment Robert Saleh was fired by the Jete... Two DC's in a row were let go... Wilks defense allowed less than 300 points... Sorensen didn't do as well this year... why, i don't know... scheme? injuries? turnovers? result of TOP imbalance? i don't care enough to look it up...

as for "taking responsibility"... McDaniel is indeed distancing himself - he literally thru a guy who he recruited under the bus over a down year... In no uncertain terms McDaniel scapegoated Wes Welker... The production of the receivers since WW got there bears this out... McDaniel standing up and saying "Wes isn't the problem...He's not at fault for the decline in production... Thats on me"... That's taking responsibility for what happened... If you don't get that then you have no idea what "Taking Responsibility" means.

 

[Ring 6]

It might be a "trope", but its more of a common saying...

A coach taking responsibility is something we'll never know for sure, unless you have a personal connection to those making the decisions, so saying that you are "100% sure" he takes responsibility is as much of a "trope" as saying "he should take responsibility"... And it certainly doe not look like it... I don't know enough about SF to opine on them, besides I'm pretty sure the wheels started moving in that front office the moment Robert Saleh was fired by the Jete... Two DC's in a row were let go... Wilks defense allowed less than 300 points... Sorensen didn't do as well this year... why, i don't know... scheme? injuries? turnovers? result of TOP imbalance? i don't care enough to look it up...

as for "taking responsibility"... McDaniel is indeed distancing himself - he literally thru a guy who he recruited under the bus over a down year... In no uncertain terms McDaniel scapegoated Wes Welker... The production of the receivers since WW got there bears this out... McDaniel standing up and saying "Wes isn't the problem...He's not at fault for the decline in production... Thats on me"... That's taking responsibility for what happened... If you don't get that then you have no idea what "Taking Responsibility" means.

Shanahan has shown no indication of not taking responsibility for his duties.



McDaniel assessed that Welker wasn’t going a good job and took responsibility by replacing him.
That’s not shirking responsibility, it’s taking responsibility.
If his assessment is wrong, he will be accountable to that too.

Why would he say the assistant coach he feels didn’t do a good job isn’t accountable? How does that make the team better.

Mike McDaniel didn’t look at his team and say, wow, 8-9, damn people might think I am bad, so I need to find a scapegoat to to blame it on. Let me hurt my chances to win by firing a good Wr coach, so I can blame him and say I’m not responsible for my team. Then next year I’ll think of something else. Successful humans just don’t think like that.

 

[Ring 6]

Simple. Tell the media and fans he needs to do a better job calling plays and putting his offense in better situations to score points late in games.

He won’t do that though.

So you think the 49ers would become a better team if Kyle Shanahan announced to the media that nothing is going to change except he’s going to do a better job.
And evidently you think he isn’t trying to do a better job?

Further you think that he way to lead and organization is to criticize yourself publicly?

Wow

 

[Pape]

Shanahan has shown no indication of not taking responsibility for his duties.



McDaniel assessed that Welker wasn’t going a good job and took responsibility by replacing him.
That’s not shirking responsibility, it’s taking responsibility.
If his assessment is wrong, he will be accountable to that too.

Why would he say the assistant coach he feels didn’t do a good job isn’t accountable? How does that make the team better.

Mike McDaniel didn’t look at his team and say, wow, 8-9, damn people might think I am bad, so I need to find a scapegoat to to blame it on. Let me hurt my chances to win by firing a good Wr coach, so I can blame him and say I’m not responsible for my team. Then next year I’ll think of something else. Successful humans just don’t think like that.

replacing a coach whose squad had a down year is taking responsibility? In this case, we disagree. McDaniel let him go because he was told "your seat is getting hot, do something".

That's not taking responsibility. It's anything but.

 

[Ring 6]

replacing a coach whose squad had a down year is taking responsibility? In this case, we disagree. McDaniel let him go because he was told "your seat is getting hot, do something".

That's not taking responsibility. It's anything but.

Of course it is. He is making a change that he thinks will unproven his team. It’s the definition of responsibility.

But you honestly think that McDaniel decided that what is important is his image, and that firing a cus h would help his image, so he hurt his team by firing a good coach who didn’t deserve it, because public opinion about him is more important than what’s best for his team?
You honestly think successful people think that way?

 

[Steve102]

I bet Wes and Tyreek didn't have a great relationship he took the hit. He was the sacrificial lamb to calm the toddler having a tantrum.

I was thinking this as well. More tail wagging the dog and ****-ass leadership from McDaniel, the boy who would be king.

 

[Pape]

Of course it is. He is making a change that he thinks will unproven his team. It’s the definition of responsibility.

But you honestly think that McDaniel decided that what is important is his image, and that firing a cus h would help his image, so he hurt his team by firing a good coach who didn’t deserve it, because public opinion about him is more important than what’s best for his team?
You honestly think successful people think that way?

I think you repeating everything you've said x10 doesn't make it true, and me repeating everything I said x10 doesn't make it any more true.

Never go more that three deep... Have a nice day

 

[TheRainMaker]

So you think the 49ers would become a better team if Kyle Shanahan announced to the media that nothing is going to change except he’s going to do a better job.
And evidently you think he isn’t trying to do a better job?

Further you think that he way to lead and organization is to criticize yourself publicly?

Wow

I think you’re arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.

That’s like if Bill Belichick fired his offensive coordinator after his defense was terrible in big games.