The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[Dec54]

Feeling bad for my man Ben but elated we are getting a true leader and if we get Josh McDaniels he’s essentially a Ben Johnson himself.

Same for me I am all in on Ben Johnson, but it's looking more and more like Vrabel (which is not the worst) Not so sure about McDaniels. Maye needs a top QB whisperer, is that McDaniels, I don't know.

 

[Water Boy]

Word is he wants more control than owners want to give. He's kinda like Bellichick. How did BB work out?

Who's reporting that? Hopefully it's not a situation where the Krafts are insisting that Eliot Wolf maintain control of the roster.

The Patriots management organization is woefully understaffed and they need all the organizational experience that Vrabel has to offer. They desperately need help in that department after 20 plus years of BB running the entire show. The less the Krafts have to be involved in football decisions the better.

BJ is coming from an organization with a lock solid upper management team who arguably assembled the best offensive roster in football.

Vrabel got porked by Jon Robinson and Ran Carthon and the owner in Tenn sucks.

 

[lancerman]

.545 > .188

The standard shouldn't be better than Mayo. You can justify virtually anyone that way.

 

[Real fan 02]

Maybe as a QB coach and Kraft pays him like a OC.
As much as I will love a Vrabel hire I’m really intrigued by Ben Johnson and Vrabel is still kind of the old guard.

I like Johnson as well. However the organization needs a coach like Vrabel at this juncture. If Josh can come on as OC that is excellent for Drake.

 

[Real fan 02]

I say he ends up going to the bears... just my feelings..

 

[upstater1]

One funny thing about all this talk on offense taking over football: this year scores were down and defenses dominated.

Offense is not taking over football.

On the other hand, with the way I think, if one side of the ball is dominant (defense right now) then that's exactly the time you need offensive knowledge (though not necessarily innovation).

Things have not changed very much despite what everyone thinks about offenses. Keep the defense off balance, exploit space in the game, be able to exploit all parts of the field, get a good QB, and most importantly, kick butt in the trenches.

This isn't really rocket surgery.

 

[signbabybrady]

One funny thing about all this talk on offense taking over football: this year scores were down and defenses dominated.

Offense is not taking over football.

On the other hand, with the way I think, if one side of the ball is dominant (defense right now) then that's exactly the time you need offensive knowledge (though not necessarily innovation).

Things have not changed very much despite what everyone thinks about offenses. Keep the defense off balance, exploit space in the game, be able to exploit all parts of the field, get a good QB, and most importantly, kick butt in the trenches.

This isn't really rocket surgery.

Do rockets require a lot of surgery lol?

 

[Steve102]

Do rockets require a lot of surgery lol?

Hey. It's not brain science man.

 

[imahobgoblin]

Probably a dumb question but how does a new head coach build their staff when people are still under contract with another team? Does the new hiring team have to buyout the contract so the HC can build the staff?

How about he hires coaches not under contract with other teams? McDaniels and Eberflus are not under contract with anyone. Granted some coaches will be under a contract and that will take time.

 

[Love The Drake]

I say he ends up going to the bears... just my feelings..

us or bears But Brady will make his best pitch.

 

[PWRxWLF]

Because a lot of people are pissed they didn't go through a real search last time and were hoping they'd learn their lesson even if they had a direct favorite. Showing everyone they didn't, even if the hire might be a good one is still showing that Kraft values comfort over a "leave no stone unturned approach". And it better work out this time, because if it doesn't, the Patriots are going to look incredibly dysfunctional.

This situation is a little bit different imo. If you’re the Patriots and Mike Vrabel is your preferred candidate, you’re ****ed. He has all the leverage. Not only is he the top coaching candidate on the market, he’s available to be hired now. Tough place for Kraft to be in. Wait for the season to end so you can do real interviews with other candidates while Vrabel gets snatched up or hope you’re right and snatch him up. I don’t envy the position they’re in. Damned if they do or don’t. Makes for great radio discussion though, doesn’t it?

 

[KCSVEN]

Just thinking Drake Maye pick could save the franchise in multiple ways. If they took MHJ or traded down with the Giants and took Nabers. The Giants probably win a game or 2 more with Maye and Daboll. You now pick 10th in a weak 2025 draft and no QB to draft anyways.

Would Johnson or Vrabel have any interest in coming here? Nope. We'd probably bring Mayo back.
We are in this position to get 1 of the top 2 coaching candidates solely because of Maye.

 

[Thelonious]

The advantage of Vrabel is that he has reasonably successful experience as a head coach. The downside, for some, is his background in defense, The advantage of Johnson is that he seems to have a brilliant mind for offense. The downside is that he has no experience as HC and may be something of a detail-oriented egghead who might struggle to be sufficiently forceful as a leader of men in a violent sport.

I am left being equally content with either choice. I certainly hope the process favors neither candidate, given that there is every likelihood either might decline an offer in light of the appeal of alternative options likely to present themselves.

If neither in the end is willing or available to us, the next set of alternatives seems significantly inferior. i suspect that would leave us with an offense-minded newbie lacking in HC experience, the sort of option which might work or might not, and who is less likely than an experienced option to bring along a strong coaching group and - important to me - to insist that Wolf be tossed or marginalized in favor of his own GM option.

Breer, meanwhile, continues to whine how bad everything is. Here's hoping that preening twit will suspend his *****ing and woke handwringing.

 

[Sect140]

The advantage of Vrabel is that he has reasonably successful experience as a head coach. The downside, for some, is his background in defense, The advantage of Johnson is that he seems to have a brilliant mind for offense. The downside is that he has no experience as HC and may be something of a detail-oriented egghead who might struggle to be sufficiently forceful as a leader of men in a violent sport.

I am left being equally content with either choice. I certainly hope the process favors neither candidate, given that there is every likelihood either might decline an offer in light of the appeal of alternative options likely to present themselves.

If neither in the end is willing or available to us, the next set of alternatives seems significantly inferior. i suspect that would leave us with an offense-minded newbie lacking in HC experience, the sort of option which might work or might not, and who is less likely than an experienced option to bring along a strong coaching group and - important to me - to insist that Wolf be tossed or marginalized in favor of his own GM option.

If neither signs on then it’s full Amageddon.

 

[mgteich]

Because a lot of people are pissed they didn't go through a real search last time and were hoping they'd learn their lesson even if they had a direct favorite. Showing everyone they didn't, even if the hire might be a good one is still showing that Kraft values comfort over a "leave no stone unturned approach". And it better work out this time, because if it doesn't, the Patriots are going to look incredibly dysfunctional.

And folks have every right to criticize Kraft for honoring the terms of Mayo's contract last year.

 

[mgteich]

Word is he wants more control than owners want to give. He's kinda like Bellichick. How did BB work out?

???
Are you really asking how Belichick worked out as the coach of the patriots?

 

[Thelonious]

If neither signs on then it’s full Amageddon.

It could be. It is certainly far more of a crapshoot. My worry is that they would turn to yet another "known quantity" and make the grave mistake of taking on Flores, who was a flamboyantly incompetent head coach, but who does check the irrelevant boxes about which certain fools so deeply care.

 

[mgteich]

This situation is a little bit different imo. If you’re the Patriots and Mike Vrabel is your preferred candidate, you’re ****ed. He has all the leverage. Not only is he the top coaching candidate on the market, he’s available to be hired now. Tough place for Kraft to be in. Wait for the season to end so you can do real interviews with other candidates while Vrabel gets snatched up or hope you’re right and snatch him up. I don’t envy the position they’re in. Damned if they do or don’t. Makes for great radio discussion though, doesn’t it?

"real" interviews? What were the limits placed on the virtual interviews? At this point, many decisions are made without being face-to-face with decision-makers. The world is beyond looking into the eyes of those that we are evaluating.
=======
Vrabel has the leverage because he is a top candidate and Kraft cannot hire Johnson immediately.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Pathetic Johnson is a zoom. Hopefully means we get vrabel

 

[mike_usagisan]

It could be. It is certainly far more of a crapshoot. My worry is that they would turn to yet another "known quantity" and make the grave mistake of taking on Flores, who was a flamboyantly incompetent head coach, but who does check the irrelevant boxes about which certain fools so deeply care.

It sounds like the Pats are at the top of the list for attractive landing spots. I think the list of interviews would be longer if they didn't think they had a really, really good shot at landing one of the top two candidates.