PATRIOTS NEWS Rooney Rule fulfilled - Byron Leftwich and Pep Hamilton interviewed today

[Grogan1980]

These ****ing idiots that are *****ing about these interviews need to get a grip. They did exactly what the league mandates. Rule fulfilled. Teams do it ALL the time. Do they just check the box? Sure. Do they really do an in depth interview? Probably not. The SAME as any other company does. I can’t count how many times I’ve been to an interview and knew from the get go that it was a bs interview so HR could say they interviewed “external” candidates or something else. What do these crybabies complaining want everyone to do? Interview the candidates THEY want? Give me a break. They want things to be different? Get it changed. So long as the rules there, it will be abused, mocked, ignored etc.

100% This! I heard Breer on NBCSB whining about "skirting the process" and that the NEP should be ashamed and embarrassed ... Had to turn it off. Honestly never heard the guy's opinion before, and I'm good with not hearing it again.

 

[Ghost_Rush02]

100% This! I heard Breer on NBCSB whining about "skirting the process" and that the NEP should be ashamed and embarrassed ... Had to turn it off. Honestly never heard the guy's opinion before, and I'm good with not hearing it again.

I am full in agreement with you. And @PancakeBlockPaul.


As a black man hate the Ronney Rule and want it gone! And I want all the media b*tching about the Patriots abusing the rule to shut the help up! You know the rule is crap why are you b*tching about how it's getting done.

If the pats or any team know who they want then let them hire who they want...if it's not the right candidate then time will tell!

At this day and age I think there are plenty of qualified black candidates that don't need the Ronney rule to be hired! And they definitely should be considered.

 

[Scotty]

I can understand why it was put in place , but I am fairly sure that the Patriots are not the first team that have allegedly bucked the system.

 

[JohnJH]

100% This! I heard Breer on NBCSB whining about "skirting the process" and that the NEP should be ashamed and embarrassed ... Had to turn it off. Honestly never heard the guy's opinion before, and I'm good with not hearing it again.

Breer needs to shut his pie hole! Almost every team in the NFL has done the exact same thing. He even mentions that the Rooney Rule might not be correct to begin with. Which begs the question: What is the whole point of his useless article? I suspect that he gets paid by the article.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

These were definitely sham interviews for the HC position... but look at the responses in this thread. I hadn't seen anyone ever mention Pep Hamilton on this board before this thread where I've seen many suggest that he'd be a good assistant coach to have now after his name is out there. Isn't that part of the point of the Rooney Rule? Sure, it's a sham interview for the HC, but there's still value in getting your name out there. Maybe seeing Pep Hamilton's name in the news makes fans of another team or actual decision makers in the league, "re-aware" of his name in the same way and he lands a gig out of it.

There's definitely a bit of a demeaning element to being interviewed like this, but it also can serve as a tool for guys to advance their careers just to have their name out there.

 

[TomPatriot]

I dissent strongly from Breer’s opinion.

The purpose of the Rule is to get minority coaches in front of as many potential employers as possible, in one word, exposure. That’s what happened to Leftwich and Hamilton. It might just help them to revive their coaching careers; even if they don’t get this job, they may get other ones. Or they might knock it out of the park - the way Tomlin did in Pittsburgh - and beat out more likely candidates.

Does the NFL hope the rule leads to more minority head coaches? Yeah. But that’s not it’s only benefit. If these interviews revive the careers of Leftwich and/or Hamilton by getting them other jobs they might not have been considered for, it’s a pretty big benefit to them.

 

[XLIX]

The Patriots are absolutely not the first team to "skirt the process" with a couple of sham interviews. The very nature of the Rooney Rule makes it inevitable in many situations.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

100% This! I heard Breer on NBCSB whining about "skirting the process" and that the NEP should be ashamed and embarrassed ... Had to turn it off. Honestly never heard the guy's opinion before, and I'm good with not hearing it again.

I didn’t even have to listen since I can imagine what was said and everyone’s posts here confirm everything.

Breer needs to shut his pie hole! Almost every team in the NFL has done the exact same thing. He even mentions that the Rooney Rule might not be correct to begin with. Which begs the question: What is the whole point of his useless article? I suspect that he gets paid by the article.

I’m fairly certain a good portion of this is just dude saying all this **** to get clicks. What a great way to generate them…create controversy when there really isn’t any. Gotta drive that traffic and infuriate people to talk about it more thus creating loop of “controversy” and income. Self perpetuating. And I get it….this is what they do and have always done since they are “journalists”. ****, by that standard anyone can be a “journalist” these days. I need to start a blog about the IT world and have a section for sports to make some $$$. God knows I have plenty to *****/gripe about.

 

[JohnJH]

I didn’t even have to listen since I can imagine what was said and everyone’s posts here confirm everything.



I’m fairly certain a good portion of this is just dude saying all this **** to get clicks. What a great way to generate them…create controversy when there really isn’t any. Gotta drive that traffic and infuriate people to talk about it more thus creating loop of “controversy” and income. Self perpetuating. And I get it….this is what they do and have always done since they are “journalists”. ****, by that standard anyone can be a “journalist” these days. I need to start a blog about the IT world and have a section for sports to make some $$$. God knows I have plenty to *****/gripe about.

If you can make a few bucks in the process and do a better job then them (which I suspect that you could), you should give it a shot Dude!

 

[Boogs]

I dissent strongly from Breer’s opinion.

The purpose of the Rule is to get minority coaches in front of as many potential employers as possible, in one word, exposure. That’s what happened to Leftwich and Hamilton. It might just help them to revive their coaching careers; even if they don’t get this job, they may get other ones. Or they might knock it out of the park - the way Tomlin did in Pittsburgh - and beat out more likely candidates.

Does the NFL hope the rule leads to more minority head coaches? Yeah. But that’s not it’s only benefit. If these interviews revive the careers of Leftwich and/or Hamilton by getting them other jobs they might not have been considered for, it’s a pretty big benefit to them.

The NFL should stay out of forcing NFL teams to interview certain skin colors. Let NFL organizations interview the people they want to interview.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

The Patriots are absolutely not the first team to "skirt the process" with a couple of sham interviews. The very nature of the Rooney Rule makes it inevitable in many situations.

Correct, other teams skirt the process with sham interviews. And they manage to do so while not making it look stupidly obvious like Kraft did here to the point of drawing criticism. Why couldn't Kraft have just been confident enough to do that?

 

[pazrul72]

What concerns me is that they tried to run a WC type offense and it basically sucked. Is that because they have people in position that are graded out by scouts to be in a Erhardt/Perkins offense trying to run WC? That seems like a failure waiting to happen. Or happened, past tense. There's a lot we don't know, but if the Krafts said they just wanted off Bill, and kept everything else the same, and then changed offensive systems, then of course it would suck. You have players who are basically square pegs in round holes. That doesn't explain Rham getting fumblitis or why the defense sucked (because Covington sucks). Did they use Bill's scouting grades then, and that's why they ended up with more ****ty WRs? Certainly Baker felt like an anti-Bill pick. Kraft spoke of changed grading systems. When did that happen? Pre-draft? Post? Mid-season? How does that change who they got, where and how they were used and how it will be changed going forward. I have lots of questions, and it's things we will never find out, because they don't want it leaked or the press is too afraid to ask. There's guys like Bedard, Perry, Curran who would be able to understand that and translate it to fans. Zo certainly could.

Sorry, off on a tangent here. My whole point is if they are grading guys based on Erhardt/Perkins but ran WC, then the switch back to EP with JMcD should yield immediate results.

Regardless, you have to figure that at least Vrabel will put in systems that will get everyone on the same page. A Vrabel led system that includes qualified OCs and DCs has to be better than a Belichick based system without Belichick. We had a coach who it seems had a mandate to be a pal and not be Bill. Everything else was secondary, including preparation.

Players had no chance.

Going even deeper down the rabbit hole, they may not be as bad as they were this year with zero coaching. Get someone in here who can help them know the answers to the test. Get someone in here who matches players skillset to the system, regardless of which system they use.

Obviously im not a coach and have a surface level understanding of this stuff but IMO systems domt really matter that much. No matter how many new ways you want to cloak it or call it something new there are only the same basic 9 routes for recievers to run. Think of the wildcat surprised the hell out of BB the first time he saw it but then pulled out his single wing t defense from the 1940's the second meeting and stonewalled it.

I will jump on @patfanken way of discribing it like a language because thats the closest way to explian the difference. Most systems including the west coast are very detailed and specific in the way they call the play. X hook y ladder z go protection omega 37 on 3. It removes the thinking or having to process. A Wr can say i am the y and i run a ladder and the rest who cares. Its easy, simple, and specific. Pros are you can get people up to speed quickly and they know exactly what to run everytime. Cons are jeez thats a mouthful and there is zero flexability if the defense calls the right play to shut it down.

The rest is more window dressing about where and how you attack, are you more high risk high reward attacking vertically deep? Air Coryell. Or lots of horizontal screens and quick fast devolping routes streching the field sideways and making the defense cover more ground? West coast.

The EP is a different language entirely. Same play gets called hooks right. From that the entire offense should get a picture in thier mind from the playbook with the rules for that play. Lets say hooks is a 3 wr set that has the x and y running different depth hooks one at 5 yards and another at 10 both on the right side of the formation. The offensive line knows everyone will be sliding protection to the right with the running back running a playaction fake left and picking up any late blitzers that way.

Heres where it gets complicated, thats how its called and drawn up if they are facing man defense that doesnt have a saftey over the top. If they do run into a dime zone coverage they werent expecting the y needs to change his hook to a go to draw a saftey deep. Again i dont know the exact change in call i am just talking concepts. Thing is everyone on the offense needs to read the defense and know the entire play with all the rules.

Pros are short play calls so changing things at the line is quick and easy, hooks arent going to work fine we'll go with crosser and i told them in the huddle thats play alpha so seconds before the snap Alpha go! Its also extremly difficult to stop when the qb and wr are on the same page because the route changes based on the coverage instead of i am running this route and only this route. Cons you need the kind of receiver who thinks like a qb. They need to read coverages in real time AND read it the same way the qb does. Its why Branch was a way better wr here then Ochocinco but didnt work out as well in Seattle.

There was a video of Brady and Branch literally just lining up and looking at each other. No playcall, no words exchanged but just from body lnaguage and the way Brady was looking Branch knew the play and what route to run. In the EP if Brady is expecting you to be at an 8 yard crosser in 1.8 seconds it doesnt matter that you have 3 yards of seperation running a 12 yard dig in 2.1 seconds, he has already looked past you. Thats why Ocho was so frustrating because i saw him still breaking plenty of DBs ankles. The guy could still play and at a high level, just not with Brady.

Going forward i dont care what system they run, its all just the way you call it and how you want to attack. I care that they get everyone doing the same thing and that comes down to coaches effectively getting thier message accross in a way players can use instinctual. Hope that helped with your questions.

Edit - oh yeah thought of one last point, its also why i dont have much hope for Polk. He was having mental and confidence issue in the west coast offense? Then EP is definitely not for him. Or maybe pictures are better then words with the way his brain works IDK.

 

[maust]

Obviously im not a coach and have a surface level understanding of this stuff but IMO systems domt really matter that much. No matter how many new ways you want to cloak it or call it something new there are only the same basic 9 routes for recievers to run. Think of the wildcat surprised the hell out of BB the first time he saw it but then pulled out his single wing t defense from the 1940's the second meeting and stonewalled it.

I will jump on @patfanken way of discribing it like a language because thats the closest way to explian the difference. Most systems including the west coast are very detailed and specific in the way they call the play. X hook y ladder z go protection omega 37 on 3. It removes the thinking or having to process. A Wr can say i am the y and i run a ladder and the rest who cares. Its easy, simple, and specific. Pros are you can get people up to speed quickly and they know exactly what to run everytime. Cons are jeez thats a mouthful and there is zero flexability if the defense calls the right play to shut it down.

The rest is more window dressing about where and how you attack, are you more high risk high reward attacking vertically deep? Air Cordell. Or lots of horizontal screens and quick fast devolping routes streching the field sideways and making the defense cover more ground? West coast.

The EP is a different language entirely. Same play gets called hooks right. From that the entire offense should get a picture in thier mind from the playbook with the rules for that play. Lets say hooks is a 3 wr set that has the x and y running different depth hooks one at 5 yards and another at 10 both on the right side of the formation. The offensive line knows everyone will be sliding protection to the right with the running back running a playaction fake left and picking up any late blitzers that way.

Heres where it gets complicated, thats how its called and drawn up if they are facing man defense that doesnt have a saftey over the top. If they do run into a dime zone coverage they werent expecting the y needs to change his hook to a go to draw a saftey deep. Again i dont know the exact change in call i am just talking concepts. Thing is everyone on the offense needs to read the defense and know the entire play with all the rules.

Pros are short play calls so changing things at the line is quick and easy, hooks arent going to work fine we'll go with crosser and i told them in the huddle thats play alpha so seconds before the snap Alpha go! Its also extremly difficult to stop when the qb and wr are on the same page because the route changes based on the coverage instead of i am running this route and only this route. Cons you need the kind of receiver who thinks like a qb. They need to read coverages in real time AND read it the same way the qb does. Its why Branch was a way better wr here then Ochocinco but didnt work out as well in Seattle.

There was a video of Brady and Branch literally just lining up and looking at each other. No playcall, no words exchanged but just from body lnaguage and the way Brady was looking Branch knew the play and what route to run. In the EP if Brady is expecting you to be at an 8 yard crosser in 1.8 seconds it doesnt matter that you have 3 yards of seperation running a 12 yard dig in 2.1 seconds, he has already looked past you. Thats why Ocho was so frustrating because i saw him still breaking plenty of DBs ankles. The guy could still play and at a high level, just not with Brady.

Going forward i dont care what system they run, its all just the way you call it and how you want to attack. I care that they get everyone doing the same thing and that comes down to coaches effectively getting thier message accross in a way players can use instinctual. Hope that helped with your questions.

While it's true there's really nothing new under the Sun, I think you summed up the fundamental differences in the WC vs EP variations. The WC is very much a prisoner of its by rote dictum but when the play call is ahead of the D it's deadly In order for the EP system to really flourish the coaching has to be really good or the QB and WR's need to have the ability to consistently read both each other and the D. That read calls for a lot of recognition out of a young QB.

 

[Kdo5]

Good on Glenn for not serving Kraft’s PR.

 

[TomPatriot]

The NFL should stay out of forcing NFL teams to interview certain skin colors. Let NFL organizations interview the people they want to interview.

That’s up to the NFL, not each individual member.

 

[Boogs]

That’s up to the NFL, not each individual member.

For now it is. But hopefully the NFL changes this and quits forcing teams to conduct interviews based on skin color. And if they don't, I hope a court intervenes to stop this.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

If you can make a few bucks in the process and do a better job then them (which I suspect that you could), you should give it a shot Dude!

I’m probably going to do something similar if not that. Just for the sake of doing it plus I’m constantly trying to learn things. 99% sure I can do it but my main issue is with getting it noticed. Other than sharing it on social media I’ve got no idea how one would get something like that out there and noticed. . Never been good at promoting things lol. And thanks!

Correct, other teams skirt the process with sham interviews. And they manage to do so while not making it look stupidly obvious like Kraft did here to the point of drawing criticism. Why couldn't Kraft have just been confident enough to do that?

What’s funny/sad is that if we went through the process and made it less obvious, they would still find something else to ***** about. What scares me about how they’re doing this is with all the *****ing about it is bound to be noticed by Herr Goodell and others in the NYFL. Hopefully they don’t take it as “manipulating the system” or something else where they try to screw us out of a pick or several for violating the “integrity” of the game….

 

[lancerman]

There's always sham interviews for Rooney rule compliance. The Pats are getting **** because they were stupidly blatant about it and rushed those two through the door before the real interviews began. It's one of those things where people know a lot of teams are going to dance around it, but you still have to play the game and at least try to pretend it's not for show or you just make everyone look bad.

It also doesn't help the Patriots that a big criticism they had last year was that they decided on Mayo and didn't even really have a true HC search and do any due diligence and guys like Breer have been ringing the bell that this go around they should actually cast a wide net. So when they do stuff like this, it just makes it look like they already zoned in on one or two guys and have no intention of considering others, which is leaving a bad taste in people's mouth. Breer has been VERY adamant that the Patriots should have a very thorough process and the first thing they do is try to rush through some checkboxes. So it just reinforces that they didn't learn their lesson.

 

[mgteich]

Why is everyone whining about Kraft following the rules of the NFL?

What should he have done? The rules require the interview of minorities. It is really that simple.
==========
As an aside, I like Hamilton as HC if Vrabel and Johnson refuse the job.
======
With regard to choosing Vrabel this "fast", I'm sure that the Kraft's have had lots and lots of contacts with Vrabel over the last year (and, why not?).

 

[Boogs]

There's always sham interviews for Rooney rule compliance. The Pats are getting **** because they were stupidly blatant about it and rushed those two through the door before the real interviews began. It's one of those things where people know a lot of teams are going to dance around it, but you still have to play the game and at least try to pretend it's not for show or you just make everyone look bad.

It also doesn't help the Patriots that a big criticism they had last year was that they decided on Mayo and didn't even really have a true HC search and do any due diligence and guys like Breer have been ringing the bell that this go around they should actually cast a wide net. So when they do stuff like this, it just makes it look like they already zoned in on one or two guys and have no intention of considering others, which is leaving a bad taste in people's mouth. Breer has been VERY adamant that the Patriots should have a very thorough process and the first thing they do is try to rush through some checkboxes. So it just reinforces that they didn't learn their lesson.

If you know what major pieces you want for your staff, and you are hiring high level leadership with the right pieces to the puzzle, just go for them. Who cares about casting a "wide net." Obviously if you pick a bad leader, slowly or quickly, you crash and burn. But, you don't have to interview everyone if you know the guys you want to pursue, especially if they can do a good job. And there's nothing wrong with doing it quickly.