PostGame Thread 2024 OFFICIAL Postgame Thread: Patriots fall 28-22 to the Rams

[Mike the Brit]

I don't thin he's very good. He never hits the right holes. He wasn't great in Washington either.

Agreed. The running game has been handicapped by coaching (choosing to run at predictable times) and by the line play, but Stevenson has added to what was there for the taking. Neither Gibson nor Hasty have.

Big stepdown from Ezekiel.

Seriously? Did you watch Elliott last season?

Not only is coaching a problem, but our personnel people are major problems.

Agreed.

While it's early to write off this draft, only Maye is definitely a keeper and that doesn't give a lot of credit to the front office. If they'd picked Maye over Daniels and Williams, maybe, but, needing a quarterback as badly as the team did, that was the only decision they could make. They look to have been lucky, not smart.

The draft apart, Gibson, Osborn, Okorafor look very poor signings. Hooper has been good. And Brissett was terrible. If you needed a crash-test dummy to stop Maye from having to start, you could have signed many who were better. (I blame AVP, but obviously the personnel people must have signed off on it.)

I'm convinced that the pick of Tyquan and the choice to go JuJu over Jakobi was pushed by our personnel people.

Here you've jumped the shark.

These were two terrible decisions made under the authority of Bill Belichick. So he must have been pushed by the personnel people? Seriously?

Actually, a much more plausible behind-the-scenes story is that during Mad Bill's Judge-Patricia experiment there was a protest by members of the offense (Damien Harris, Mac Jones, Hoyer and Meyers) who were sent to Siberia in the following off-season for their troubles.

Assuming (without evidence) that a bad thing done on Bill's watch was a bad thing forced on Bill against his better judgement goes against everything we know about the way he (the G.O.A.T., of course) ran the show.

 

[Real fan 02]

He is the Pro personnel guy so you're right

Yes and he's a big part of the problem.. there needs to be someone within the organization in the Pro personnel department that can correctly identify WRs. Not projects or more possession receivers.. game changers guys who can get deep and help out Drake down field.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

I don't thin he's very good. He never hits the right holes. He wasn't great in Washington either. Big stepdown from Ezekiel.

Not only is coaching a problem, but our personnel people are major problems.

I'm convinced that the pick of Tyquan and the choice to go JuJu over Jakobi was pushed by our personnel people.

he had some good runs earlier this

 

[mikey m]

Dunno, I think thats a see what the safety is doing then adapt and Douglas broke outside to split the free safety and I think a corner.

Regardless the INTs are piling up and the league is a passing league now vs Manning in '98 etc.

No one's really talking about it but I think defenses are catching up.

Looking at the top 10 passing leaders today, they are between 225 - 275 yards per game. Virtually the exact same numbers compared to 1998.

 

[sb1]

Not crazy about Maye's tendency to be strip sacked, I believe that's 3 so far. Needs to either throw it away or really protect that ball if you have to take a hit.

Teams are going to see that on tape and try to punch it out if he's not protecting it enough.

 

[The Gr8est]

Mayo isn’t getting fired year 1.

During,

Or after?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I believe mayo has extreme Xs and Os knowledge being a former player and understudy of BB. However doing on your own as a HC can be a daunting task.. he's deep into the season he should be farther along as a developing HC than where he is now. But your right.. the game plan strategy not to have your best CB on either Nucua or cupp is just asinine. I have to keep reminding myself this is a bottom roster all around with a rookie coach and QB.

Mayo might understand the Xs and Os from his playing days, but being a strategic thinker and knowing how best to apply the Xs and Os is different. For example, Zo on the radio understands the Xs and Os, but has no idea why certain formations are used in certain situations - Zo is not a strategic thinker. If you have not noticed, most coaches are not ex-players. Why is that? Because being a strategic thinker is more important to coaching than having played the game.

The Pats roster stinks, I agree, but I think we are all surprised to find out the coaching is worse than the roster.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

During,

Or after?

Both. Mayo will be the HC next year

 

[upstater1]

Agreed. The running game has been handicapped by coaching (choosing to run at predictable times) and by the line play, but Stevenson has added to what was there for the taking. Neither Gibson nor Hasty have.



Seriously? Did you watch Elliott last season?



Agreed.

While it's early to write off this draft, only Maye is definitely a keeper and that doesn't give a lot of credit to the front office. If they'd picked Maye over Daniels and Williams, maybe, but, needing a quarterback as badly as the team did, that was the only decision they could make. They look to have been lucky, not smart.

The draft apart, Gibson, Osborn, Okorafor look very poor signings. Hooper has been good. And Brissett was terrible. If you needed a crash-test dummy to stop Maye from having to start, you could have signed many who were better. (I blame AVP, but obviously the personnel people must have signed off on it.)


Here you've jumped the shark.

These were two terrible decisions made under the authority of Bill Belichick. So he must have been pushed by the personnel people? Seriously?

Actually, a much more plausible behind-the-scenes story is that during Mad Bill's Judge-Patricia experiment there was a protest by members of the offense (Damien Harris, Mac Jones, Hoyer and Meyers) who were sent to Siberia in the following off-season for their troubles.

Assuming (without evidence) that a bad thing done on Bill's watch was a bad thing forced on Bill against his better judgement goes against everything we know about the way he (the G.O.A.T., of course) ran the show.

I said Ezekiel was better than Gibson, not that he was an All-Pro.

Did you miss the Callahan article on the Jakobi and JuJu thing? Callahan said Belichick wanted to keep Meyers but eventually went with the metrics guys pushing JuJu.

This was about YAC where JuJu was much better than Jakobi, and these are the type of things metrics people love.

What sounds more plausible? That Belichick pushed for the home run hitter or that Belichick pushed for the guy that got first downs, who caught balls at 10 yards a clip and kept the offense on schedule as they "matriculated" the ball down the field? Callahan's version sounds very plausible to me, and I don't even know why Callahan would make such a thing up.

 

[n1997y]

Seems like Lowe was influenced by the awful positioning from
Jordan on the illegal formation penalty

Coaches need to fix that. It’s their job.

 

[Mike the Brit]

I said Ezekiel was better than Gibson, not that he was an All-Pro.

Did you miss the Callahan article on the Jakobi and JuJu thing? Callahan said Belichick wanted to keep Meyers but eventually went with the metrics guys pushing JuJu.

This was about YAC where JuJu was much better than Jakobi, and these are the type of things metrics people love.

What sounds more plausible? That Belichick pushed for the home run hitter or that Belichick pushed for the guy that got first downs, who caught balls at 10 yards a clip and kept the offense on schedule as they "matriculated" the ball down the field? Callahan's version sounds very plausible to me, and I don't even know why Callahan would make such a thing up.

I did miss the Callahan article because the Herald is behind a paywall.

I don't know if Callahan really had reliable inside sources. If BB allowed himself to be swayed by metrics, that would be very unlike him. His bad judgements about WRs (Chad Ochocinco, for example!) generally came from overrating his own observations and possibly (Chad Jackson, N'Keal Harry) over-trusting his coaching pals in the college game.

Still, if the story is true, it is very bad evidence against Wolf.

 

[n1997y]

If I were the Krafts, I would have a rigorously honest and private conversation with Drake Maye before the end of the season, the sole purpose for which would be to determine which coach - TC, AVP, whoever - has actually been of the most use to him in his development. I do not think this is the sort of conversation one could usefully have with most 22-year-olds, but I think Drake's really remarkable honesty and purposefulness make it a workable approach in his case. I would place very significant weight on his response as I decided what changes if any to make. If he credits primarily AVP and expresses a wish to continue with AVP as his mentor, I would, given what I regard as AVP's limitations as OC/play caller, offer AVP essentially the QB coach position, which he can choose to accept or not. If it is TC or somebody else whom Drake cites as most valuable to him, I would hire/retain that person as QB coach. I would then - asap - begin work to to secure the services of a more skilled, cutting-edge and experienced OC. We may have something valuable building here, and there is no need to be so prissy and squeamish about putting in place a coaching/GM team worthy of Drake's and eventually the team's potential.

I won't rehash my take on Mayo, which is basically simply that his hire was a mistake, that the hiring process was a joke, and that the Krafts should set aside their irrelevant personal affection for him and get an experienced, likely offensive-oriented, replacement HC.

I would fire Wolfe immediately.

It’s a good start. I’d go farther. Kraft should task Robyn Glaser to do job performance evaluations for everyone in the on-field football operation, using a 360 degree approach. That approach has every employee do evaluation of their performance and that of those above and below them in the organizational hierarchy. For players and coaches they should also be asked to evaluate their peers. Kraft should handle a few key employees himself, particularly Maye (but not Mayo, Thunder is too invested in his success).

Thing is, Maye could feel AVP helped his development but didn’t help with the OL at all. AVP could be great at developing a QB but terrible at playcalling, for example.

 

[n1997y]

I see. Give the young rookie QB the decision on which coach he wants. Maybe the Krafts could ask the ST guys, the WRs and the DL who they want too. That would be great.

At some point we need to resign ourselves to the fact that Jerod Mayo is the Pats HC and I doubt that he's going anywhere anytime soon. They seem to be getting a little better.

Good idea. Who knows better the quality of the coaching than the guys being coached?

A lot of corporate HR organizations use a 360 degree approach especially for JPEs (job performance evaluations) of managers that include evaluation of managers and supervisors by those they manage and supervise. It turns out that some bad performers are good at sucking up to their boss while abusing and mismanaging their subordinates. Who’d have thought, eh?

 

[Thelonious]

It’s a good start. I’d go farther. Kraft should task Robyn Glaser to do job performance evaluations for everyone in the on-field football operation, using a 360 degree approach. That approach has every employee do evaluation of their performance and that of those above and below them in the organizational hierarchy. For players and coaches they should also be asked to evaluate their peers. Kraft should handle a few key employees himself, particularly Maye (but not Mayo, Thunder is too invested in his success).

Thing is, Maye could feel AVP helped his development but didn’t help with the OL at all. AVP could be great at developing a QB but terrible at playcalling, for example.

Yep. There is no substitute for openness and honesty on the job, in the evaulation of employees. I was a department head in an academic settting, I implemented a policy whereas as a matter of routine I would to go into teachers' classes after having the teacher leave and talk with the students about how things were going and whether there was anything that could be better. It was scary for the teachers at first, of course, but the students handled it very responsibly, and almost all the time the feedback was helpful and generally encouraging. This was in addition to written student evaluations and my class observations. An added advantage is that if you treat kids as if they can be responsible, they will act responsibly. I see no reason why this openness could not find a place on a football team.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Maye's proving to be a smart, competent player who will absolutely change the landscape this offseason, especially when it comes to attracting skill players. You'll have guys feeling like they can be the one to put him over the top and get this team back to becoming a contender, which was a component lacking last offseason.

Like I've said before, guys want to play where they can put up numbers and have a shot at postseason incentives. Getting paid is great, but they want to have fun and be productive while they're doing it. Moving up to New England is a big ask for most guys, but I think Maye is going to absolutely be the reason why they're able to be much more successful this offseason.

And once they land that first domino, more will follow. They just need to continue to at least have games like yesterday where they were productive and showed signs of life. If they can do that and keep themselves on a slow, upward trajectory, they'll be in good shape.

The biggest problem we have right now is we’re basically relying on word of mouth and eyewitnesses to sell players on playing with Maye.

Maye only played garbage time in one Thursday night game. Otherwise the only non-1PM or Sunday morning game he’ll have is a 4:15 against the Chargers. We’ve played or are playing the Jets, Titans, Jags, Colts, Rams, Dolphins, Bears, and Rams and are drawing the 4th string broadcast crews. The only games which could be considered for higher level crews and audience are the Chargers and Bills.

And while the offense is worlds better than under Brissett, we’re still averaging 20 PPG in Maye’s starts because the rest of the offense around him is so poor. We’re not winning, and we’re not seeing any highlight reel plays on Sportscenter because we have no one to make them.

So right now, I fear the potential draw of playing with Maye will be limited only to those players who actually played against him this year. It’s not for nothing, but it isn’t the entire pool of NFL players. The floodgates will open in future years as Maye succeeds and has a reputation, but it still may be a struggle this offseason.

 

[upstater1]

I did miss the Callahan article because the Herald is behind a paywall.

I don't know if Callahan really had reliable inside sources. If BB allowed himself to be swayed by metrics, that would be very unlike him. His bad judgements about WRs (Chad Ochocinco, for example!) generally came from overrating his own observations and possibly (Chad Jackson, N'Keal Harry) over-trusting his coaching pals in the college game.

Still, if the story is true, it is very bad evidence against Wolf.

Post 2020, Kraft said that there would be more collaboration. No one knows what that means but it has to mean something. Belichick even said he didn't scout college players (though he obviously did at the Senior Bowl once or twice). We don't really have clarity, but Callahan's story jibes with me because of the nature of the players.

We all know it was Belichick who screwed up the Harry pick, but people seem to think Harry was a reach, when he wasn't.

I'm not sure who was doing pro personnel work for the Patriots during the Belichick tenure but they brought in a lot of really good WRs who helped the team. David Patten, Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Brandon LaFell, Cooks (although I'm not a fan), Amendola, Chris Hogan, Stallworth, obviously Randy Moss, though that was a no brainer. Ochocinco, Galloway, and especially Sanu didn't work out, but the guys that they did bring in became crucial to some big victories.

 

[n1997y]

The only difference is I think Bill knew how to go about getting better even if they did not. This group of coaches has no clue on how to get better.

I read that as Bill knew how to improve even if he didn’t have the players to accomplish it. Belichick the GM failed Belichick the GOAT HC.

Bill knew how to get them better even if they didn't get better? So what, he didn't feel like fixing it?

Of course, what you're really saying is that a coach needs the proper players to make things work.

you really don’t see that your second line is the more likely alternative than Bill not caring to fix things? SMH.

 

[n1997y]

I supported Mayo and Covington and had high hopes for the defense precisely because they were carryovers from the best defensive football staff in NFL history.

In retrospect, it looks like that defense did well despite them.

And don't tell me it was all Belichick and his acolytes can't carry the same defensive principles and coaching forward, because we have seen people like Saban, Schwartz, Crennel, Flores, etc. have success with it. Patricia was never really a DC anywhere else and he failed as an HC but others have had success.

I think expecting his acolytes to do what Belichick did on the sidelines in the middle of games is unrealistic. He told them what adjustments to make, and they made them. Making the adjustments didn’t teach them what motivated them. That was Bill’s lifetime knowledge, acquired beginning as a child working with his dad. Mayo has been Bill’s understudy as a coach for five years, while Bill started as his dad’s understudy sixty years ago. Thats a big difference.

 

[n1997y]

What would Scar have made of Lowe's admission that he was warned repeatedly for lining up wrong - and then did it again to rack up a game critical penalty?

That he needs to fix Jacobs lining up too far off the line.

 

[n1997y]

Wait... what? The OPPOSING coaches saw something from up high and radioed down to the coach so they could adjust what they did on the field? That's cheating!!! Take away a first rounder for that.

FIFY.

I was originally confused, wondering when our coaches did that?

I know our coaches could do it too. But they never do. Maybe they don’t know it’s legal?