Why don't any of you have patience?

[mike_usagisan]

Depends on what you mean by coaching change... I hate to quibble, but do you mean HC only or coordinators?

The best I came up with is the 2009-2010 Bears with Lovie Smith / Jay Cutler... They added Mike Martz as OC in 2010, replacing Ron Turner (had to look that up so thats based on what PFR is showing)... thats a pretty significant change of fortunes with a static HC/QB, hence the question at the beginning...

I don't know. It was really me asking because I couldn't think of any myself.

I think coordinator changes count as they often change the fortunes of a team. But if we look bad all year and don't change anything in the coaching, I don't know why we'd expect any changes next year.

 

[Sect140]

We're just used to 20+ years of the BB Way. Other teams use the media to call out players and whatnot.

What you’re saying is true but to me it seems like Mayo is always trying to point the media away from his shortcomings. I’m sure Bill isn’t the only coach who wants to keep matters in house. This week Tomlinson decided to start Wilson over Fields he said he would take the blame if the decision didn’t work out.

 

[Tunescribe]

I felt that they were competitive yesterday. If Polk doesn't fall down and miss the two-pointer, it's a one-score game late in the fourth quarter.

The bottom line is they lost by 16 points, there always will be "ifs" during the course of a game.

 

[Pape]

I don't know. It was really me asking because I couldn't think of any myself.

I think coordinator changes count as they often change the fortunes of a team. But if we look bad all year and don't change anything in the coaching, I don't know why we'd expect any changes next year.

i agree with you... if you change nothing, expect nothing to change... In the one example of what I found, going from Ron Turner to Mike Martz is a significant upgrade imo... Turner wasn't a slouch, but Martz was the author of the "greatest show on turf"...

 

[mike_usagisan]

i agree with you... if you change nothing, expect nothing to change... In the one example of what I found, going from Ron Turner to Mike Martz is a significant upgrade imo... Turner wasn't a slouch, but Martz was the author of the "greatest show on turf"...

I think how the Pats do down the stretch is going to determine it. If the team shows a spark anywhere, that might be something to build on. But if not, at least coordinator changes need to be on the table and maybe head coach, if we want to follow the Texans' recent practice of firing coaches after a single season.

 

[Patsfan1645]

How much patience is reasonable here? Since Brady left in 2019 (when I considered a form of rebuilding had to begin as he masked a lot of short comings with the team) the pats have been above .500 one time in what is now year #5 and it doesn't appear they are trending in the right direction except for a handful of players. So my patience is gone especially with all the head scratching decisions the owner made going into the offseason. As Parcells said "You are what your record says you are" and that hasn't been something to be proud of in a longtime now.

 

[Pape]

Agreed whatever that was starts again this year. But I don't think Bill tried to rebuild at all.

I think that is a disingenuous statement and is patently false.

I think Bill was in the process of restructuring the roster leading up to 2023. The team had finally cut free a lot of the "projects" that they had been working on developing over the past few years. They brought in guys like Peppers, Elliott, Gesicki, Montgomery, tried to bolster the OL by bringing in three OT's (2 signings, 1 trade), made massive changes to the coaching staff in order to reset this team

It might not have worked but to say Bill didn't even try is plain ass garbage talk.

 

[archstanton543]

tried to bolster the OL by bringing in three OT's (2 signings, 1 trade)

The ghost of Reiff and that other guy who didn't make it to one game were great signings.

 

[Pape]

I think how the Pats do down the stretch is going to determine it. If the team shows a spark anywhere, that might be something to build on. But if not, at least coordinator changes need to be on the table and maybe head coach, if we want to follow the Texans' recent practice of firing coaches after a single season.

at some point, Mayo needs to establish some sort of accountability here, and it should start with the coaching staff. It will send a message to everyone - coaches, players and administrators alike that what we have seen so far is not good enough... We don't need to win another game this year, but we do have to see some growth...

 

[sb1]

I think that is a disingenuous statement and is patently false.

I think Bill was in the process of restructuring the roster leading up to 2023. The team had finally cut free a lot of the "projects" that they had been working on developing over the past few years. They brought in guys like Peppers, Elliott, Gesicki, Montgomery, tried to bolster the OL by bringing in three OT's (2 signings, 1 trade), made massive changes to the coaching staff in order to reset this team

It might not have worked but to say Bill didn't even try is plain ass garbage talk.

That's a retool IMO not a true rebuild. What I call a rebuild should have started the day Brady announced he wasn't coming back.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I don't know. It was really me asking because I couldn't think of any myself.

I think coordinator changes count as they often change the fortunes of a team. But if we look bad all year and don't change anything in the coaching, I don't know why we'd expect any changes next year.

There's been plenty of teams that were terrible and turned it around.

 

[Pape]

That's a retool IMO not a true rebuild. What I call a rebuild should have started the day Brady announced he wasn't coming back.

You are hiding behind words. You flat out stated he didn't even try. Its a bunch of ********. You said what you mean and you mean what you say. I don't find you to be a scatterbrained poster. Quite the opposite.

I understand that you may get off on poking the Belichick crowd, but come on, that's garbage. A guy like Bill doesn't just say after 30 years and coming within arms reach of Shula "eh, who cares". What he did do did not work. But to say he didn't even try?

 

[Steve102]

Nothing to do with the results.....its the lack of discipline, the lack of institutional control, the lack of identity, the lack of any clear plan or direction, the uninspired play, the lack of toughness......results shouldnt matter, but all of the above does matter, and can happen independent of results

I posted in another thread that back in the early 90s, I would get mad at the TV and my new wife would ask me why I watch "these assholes" when they make me so mad. I said because someday they'll be good and I am going to be loyal. My loyalty was repaid 100x over. Today, not so much. Mayo looks lost on the sidelines, the front office is meh at best, the coordinators are not getting the players in the right position to succeed, and the players are fracturing the locker room before our eyes.

I am not optimistic they will turn it around in any rush. They still need an influx of talent, and the talent they do have is not coached at a high level. while I do think the QB has been upgraded from Mac Jones, we still don't know how good he is. I guess 26-37 with 275 yards and couple TDs is pretty good with this level of support around him. What happens when he has a bad day? Do they lose by 50? The Jags are bad, and they made them look like a playoff team. There's not much upside right now, no light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

There's been plenty of teams that were terrible and turned it around.

That wasn’t what he said. He asked for situations where teams turned things around in one year without 1) a head coaching change, 2) a major coordinator change, or 3) a QB change.

In other words, if we trot out the same group next year, should we expect to see any difference in results?

 

[sb1]

You are hiding behind words. You flat out stated he didn't even try. Its a bunch of ********. You said what you mean and you mean what you say. I don't find you to be a scatterbrained poster. Quite the opposite.

I understand that you may get off on poking the Belichick crowd, but come on, that's garbage. A guy like Bill doesn't just say after 30 years and coming within arms reach of Shula "eh, who cares". What he did do did not work. But to say he didn't even try?

I believe he 100% tried to compete, yes.

My point was I saw no signs of a genuine rebuild. Franchising Thuney and keeping Gilmore instead of trading him at his peak are things a team does that plans to compete not rebuild.

 

[Mack Herron]

Good to remind ourselves it’s a long season.

 

[Zuma]

It’s a little early for players to make business decisions. I think we saw a bit of that today. If they aren’t good enough, that’s one thing and I get it. But the undisciplined play and other problems, those are unacceptable, especially if the owner “hates losing.”

Some if these inexperienced players including the coaches are making too many mental errors. I 100% agree with you…it’s not acceptable.

 

[UrbanCowboy]

Agreed whatever that was starts again this year. But I don't think Bill tried to rebuild at all.

totally, tried to re-load ... and it didn't work. Understandable why he'd think that.

 

[mike_usagisan]

There's been plenty of teams that were terrible and turned it around.

Right, but generally they saw some spark or went on a late-season run? Were there ones that just limped to the finish line and then didn't make any significant changes and improved? I generally can't think of any, but I'm sure there must be examples.

 

[sb1]

Right, but generally they saw some spark or went on a late-season run? Were there ones that just limped to the finish line and then didn't make any significant changes and improved? I generally can't think of any, but I'm sure there must be examples.

Flores took his Dolphins from 1-7 to 9-7 in 2021 and would have made the playoffs over the Pats if they beat the Jags in London...