PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Tuesday Patriots Training Camp Thread 8/13

[Family]

I didn’t see a team with a lot of needs this off-season. I saw a team with important needs. QB, OT, WR in that order.

I also saw a team with the 3rd overall pick, eight total picks, the third most cap space this season and endless cap space going forward. They had one phase to fix, offense, with a few positions needed to make it better and endless resources. If they failed to do so it won’t be because they needed more time. Especially if some of these options I offered above succeed with their respective teams. The Pats might fix it in time, but it will be their errors that slowed them down.

We’ll see, hope is not completely gone for this season. Nobody expected a Super Bowl this year, but a competitive exciting team was possible.

The offense was as far as any offense in the league from being elite.

The three needs you mention are the most important on the team.

It was a tall order for a one year turnaround when the QB is a rookie.

 

[rochrist]

I thought we should have signed Smith assuming he was going to command $10-12 million. When he signed for only $6.5 I can't believe we weren't in the mix.

We weren't in the mix because he didn't want to come here. He wanted a contender. Y'all seem to think that throwing a couple of million extra at a guy who already has more money than he can spend in a lifetime is going to make a difference. Yeah, -maybe- SOMETIMES. Sometimes not.

 

[rochrist]

@rochrist what do you do here besides put negative reactions on every other post?

Put positive reactions on the ones that aren't moronic.

 

[203Pat]

We weren't in the mix because he didn't want to come here. He wanted a contender. Y'all seem to think that throwing a couple of million extra at a guy who already has more money than he can spend in a lifetime is going to make a difference. Yeah, -maybe- SOMETIMES. Sometimes not.

I never saw a mention we were in the mix.

 

[Wozzy]

The offense was as far as any offense in the league from being elite.

The three needs you mention are the most important on the team.

It was a tall order for a one year turnaround when the QB is a rookie.

It wasn't a tall order. I gave numerous options in real-time they could have used to fix the tackle position back during free agency, options who cost similar money to jags like Okorafor and Michael Jordan. This is all time stamped months back.

Signing bad players was a choice, ignoring better players in free agency was a choice, not drafting a tackle in the 2nd was a choice... they made poor choices. If it takes years to turn this thing around, it was due to poor decisions... not an exceedingly hard task that could only be overcome with time.

This team with a much better offensive line could win games with Brissett starting now, eventually Maye will be ready to take over. They didn't have to suck in the meantime. And I'm not alone... numerous posters here knew and said Lowe and Okorafor stink. Unless the rookie tackles make a quantum leap in development, this will become painfully clear in the regular season.

 

[captain stone]

And we no longer have the GOAT coach. He might not have been the GOAT GM, ahem, but I would rather have him on the sidelines than anyone else. You never went into a game worrying that you would be out coached. He had a mystique and aura about him that intimidated other teams even before they stepped on the field, "What sneaky trick was Bill gonna pull on us this time?" He is the one that made other teams try to hide their lips when they talked. He inspired fear and gave some teams such as the Jets an inferiority complex. The Jets laugh at us now...

Bill’s massive, out-of-control ego forbade him to be a mere GOAT HC on his way to passing the hated Shula, unfortunately.

 

[Family]

It wasn't a tall order. I gave numerous options in real-time they could have used to fix the tackle position back during free agency, options who cost similar money to jags like Okorafor and Michael Jordan. This is all time stamped months back.

Signing bad players was a choice, ignoring better players in free agency was a choice, not drafting a tackle in the 2nd was a choice... they made poor choices. If it takes years to turn this thing around, it was due to poor decisions... not an exceedingly hard task that could only be overcome with time.

This team with a much better offensive line could win games with Brissett starting now, eventually Maye will be ready to take over. They didn't have to suck in the meantime. And I'm not alone... numerous posters here knew and said Lowe and Okorafor stink. Unless the rookie tackles make a quantum leap in development, this will become painfully clear in the regular season.

We don't know who didn't want to come here or what the end result will be.

The discussion that began was with Ring concerning ownership being cheap. I know your solutions would not have cost much more. It was poor decisions, which I agree is a legitimate concern now, not cheap ownership.

I'm willing to cut them a little slack since the final result will be determined by how far Maye takes the franchise, and I have no idea what they plan.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Bill’s massive, out-of-control ego forbade him to be a mere GOAT HC on his way to passing the hated Shula, unfortunately.

There is a possibility that in a year or so, fans will be begging the Krafts to bring back BB.....but I doubt BB would come back

 

[signbabybrady]

There is a possibility that in a year or so, fans will be begging the Krafts to bring back BB.....but I doubt BB would come back

I'd like him back. The Collaborative is not working.

 

[VrabelJr]

There is a possibility that in a year or so, fans will be begging the Krafts to bring back BB.....but I doubt BB would come back

A year? More like mid September. Games need to be played but there are already signs pointing to this experiment being a train wreck. Maybe it takes them more than two years but right now the roster balance is weird. We should have traded down in the 1st. (I hope Maye is a perennial all pro and my post is quoted as a sign of idiocy)

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Bill’s massive, out-of-control ego forbade him to be a mere GOAT HC on his way to passing the hated Shula, unfortunately.

Maybe. He had a blind spot as far as WRs. He got overconfident that he could take super boy scout WRs and turn them into stars.

Within a year or so, maybe withing a few months, the fan will be begging for BB's return. If he did come back, it would be like Patton replacing Fredendall or Halsey replacing Ghormley, or Churchill replacing Chamberlain....but would BB come back? It is pretty clear now that it was the Krafts making a lot of the bad personnel decisions like the Jacobi Meyers debacle and who wold want to coach under such cheapskates.

 

[1960Pats]

You are only talking about WRs and Tackles. There are a lot of other needs on a 4 win team that can be addressed in FA.

This was a bad year to be in the Pats position, which is/was a team with no offense at all but plenty of cash to spend. There were far fewer FAs available than expected because the large increase in the cap allowed teams to sign their top players.

 

[1960Pats]

And we no longer have the GOAT coach. He might not have been the GOAT GM, ahem, but I would rather have him on the sidelines than anyone else. You never went into a game worrying that you would be out coached. He had a mystique and aura about him that intimidated other teams even before they stepped on the field, "What sneaky trick was Bill gonna pull on us this time?" He is the one that made other teams try to hide their lips when they talked. He inspired fear and gave some teams such as the Jets an inferiority complex. The Jets laugh at us now...

Four wins seems optimistic. Now if we had a LT like that guy from the Cowboys, then maybe we would be OK.

It's odd seeing fans pine for a HC who was on a severe downward spiral here. In his last 4 years we went from 1st in the AFCE to 2nd then 3rd and finally 4th. Maybe we can bring his failed approach back and make a run for the top pick.

 

[1960Pats]

There is a possibility that in a year or so, fans will be begging the Krafts to bring back BB.....but I doubt BB would come back

If BB does come back he'll have us in the hunt for the top pick AGAIN. This pathetic offense is his baby and nobody else's.

 

[captain stone]

Maybe. He had a blind spot as far as WRs. He got overconfident that he could take super boy scout WRs and turn them into stars.

Within a year or so, maybe withing a few months, the fan will be begging for BB's return. If he did come back, it would be like Patton replacing Fredendall or Halsey replacing Ghormley, or Churchill replacing Chamberlain....but would BB come back? It is pretty clear now that it was the Krafts making a lot of the bad personnel decisions like the Jacobi Meyers debacle and who wold want to coach under such cheapskates.

Bill didn’t want to cede personnel authority; therefore, he Had to Go. Period.

And are you really implying that it was the… KRAFTS… who ordained signing Suck-Suck instead of Meyers? That decision was made by Bill and either Elliot Wolf or Al Groh’s kid or both (in which case we are ****ed).

 

[dliverey44]

There is a possibility that in a year or so, fans will be begging the Krafts to bring back BB.....but I doubt BB would come back

Not saying Mayo is the answer, but we saw the last 4 years that there was not a post Brady plan. BB is a great HC but **** as a personnel guy and I can not see him coming back without total control. **** NO to BB coming back. I am not sure why we are crucifying Mayo and Wolf before a real game has been played. I love this forum but sometimes I walk away feeling dumber.

We had a steady decline that last 3-4 years and you expected it to be turned around in one offseason, not a reasonable take at all.

 

[Wozzy]

We don't know who didn't want to come here or what the end result will be.

The discussion that began was with Ring concerning ownership being cheap. I know your solutions would not have cost much more. It was poor decisions, which I agree is a legitimate concern now, not cheap ownership.

I'm willing to cut them a little slack since the final result will be determined by how far Maye takes the franchise, and I have no idea what they plan.

Maye with poor blocking will be Andrew Luck, a bright spark extinguished too quickly due to injuries.

 

[Wozzy]

Not making OL a high priority is bafflingly stupid.

That said when we signed our free agents I was mostly underwhelmed but now seeing some of them in camp I'm actually encouraged that this free agent class looks better than we all thought.

Gibson and Marco Wilson appear like they'll have significant roles. Jaylin Hawkins looks like a decent 3rd safety. Hooper seems to be fitting in pretty nicely. I'm sure there's a few I'm not thinking of too.

I'd give them all up for a good LT but let's not hold the OL failures against the rest of the free agent class.

A blind spot on the offensive line is why Joe Burrow has missed the better part of two seasons, led the entire league in sacks and missed out on two legitimate Super Bowl titles.

I like what the collaboration has done bringing back all of Bill’s former players, I even like the weapons they brought in. But they have been an abysmal failure at fixing offensive tackle and pushing to trade/sign Calvin Ridley or Aiyuk shows poor team building philosophy.

Bill Walsh said the last thing you add to your team is the high priced WR. Because if you don’t have blocking or the QB in place already you won’t be able to get him the ball and a high priced WR will become a problem.

Makes sense, I’ll differ to Walsh.

 

[dliverey44]

A blind spot on the offensive line is why Joe Burrow has missed the better part of two seasons, led the entire league in sacks and missed out on two legitimate Super Bowl titles.

I like what the collaboration has done bringing back all of Bill’s former players, I even like the weapons they brought in. But they have been an abysmal failure at fixing offensive tackle and pushing to trade/sign Calvin Ridley or Aiyuk shows poor team building philosophy.

Bill Walsh said the last thing you add to your team is the high priced WR. Because if you don’t have blocking or the QB in place already you won’t be able to get him the ball and a high priced WR will become a problem.

Makes sense, I’ll differ to Walsh.

I completely agree with this but I have argued and will continue to argue that there were not players available to fix the line, imo. Sure there were rookies they could have picked but they had warts as well and not guarantee they would have helped. There were LT I was hoping they would bring in other than Chuks.

 

[Wozzy]

I completely agree with this but I have argued and will continue to argue that there were not players available to fix the line, imo. Sure there were rookies they could have picked but they had warts as well and not guarantee they would have helped. There were LT I was hoping they would bring in other than Chuks.

There were players available… this is just plain wrong.

Don’t sign Chuks or Michael Jordan, sign Oli Udoh, Yosh Nijman and Andrus Peat instead… all similarly priced.

Draft Patrick Paul or Kingsley Sumiata in the second instead of Polk.

Instantly the line is fixed and the only
thing different is a couple million more spent in guaranteed money… chicken feed. They even could have used the Wallace pick to trade back up and take Polk.

They signed and relied on bad players, they screwed up.