Offense - training camp reports

[mgteich]

The chance of a R3 OLman starting in the NFL is 52% based on 2010 to 2019. So I guess the odds are in your favor 52/48.

The odds of success for a draft pick, part 4

www.thehogsty.com

not terrible. Alternatively, he is the backup RT, with Anderson and Okorafor the starters.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Well for starters Wallace is a rookie that could be an upgrade and Anderson, who has been a serviceable tackle in the past, is fully recovered from a debilitating disease that almost killed him and wrecked his 2023 season.

Strange and Anderson were injured last year. There will be injuries this year too, so pinning our hopes on no or only one injury is not wise IMO. 3rd round tackles have a 52% chance of starting so it is toss up if Wallace even starts.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

not terrible. Alternatively, he is the backup RT, with Anderson and Okorafor the starters.

I agree, but that is not a set of strong tackles and is only marginally better than last year. And you are ignoring injuries in 2024, that always happen, so what are we going to do when we have two injuries?

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Belichick sucked in his OL overseeing since 2021 by not drafting RT Dawand Jones in the third round two years ago and not doing more to adequately shore up LT in anticipation of Trent Brown being gone.

I mentioned in another post Dan Skipper floated around the Lions’ practice squad several years ago. An easy acquisition for us and an upgrade over McDermott.

But Belichick was a disaster for the OL after the staggered departures of the wonderful Cole Popovich and the decent Carmen Bricillo.

I don't think it is a coincidence that BB's OL suck-a-tude seemed to start when Scar retired. Dante had a lot of input during the draft and he was excellent at developing players. The offense has not recovered from his retirement.

BTW, did you ever hear interviews with him on the radio? Great insights.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

We had Brown, Lowe and McDermott (RT).

We now have Okorafor, Anderson and Wallace (RT).

I like this year better.

We had Anderson in 2023 too - you left him off the list because you are not including injuries from 2023 and assuming no injuries in 2024. Not a reasonable argument.

 

[AQPE]

We had Brown, Lowe and McDermott (RT).

We now have Okorafor, Anderson and Wallace (RT).

I like this year better.

Brown was bad last year, his stats when he was in weren’t horrible but he missed minicamp (was late and couldn’t participate when he showed up), spent most of training camp on the inured/out of shape lower field, he wound up with 8 starts, 11 games. Lowe looks to me like an end of roster guy who was a fiasco at RT but who didn’t have any training camp with the team. McDermott has been an end of roster guy his whole career and is gone already.

So the question is whether Chuks can play better than Brown did last year. Brown I think is the better player when healthy and motivated but not when he wasn’t, and he often wasn’t. Wallace is automatically an improvement or at least not worse than McDermott. I don’t know what to make of Anderson but so far in his career his best is IMHO better than Lowe’s best. With Lowe still here those guys will have the chance to battle it out.

I’m not ready to declare this a disaster after a few days of camp, but I’m skeptical the OT position will be even OK much less any good.

And lest we forget how bad they were at QB last year. Putrid decisionmaking and execution all year.

 

[mgteich]

I agree, but that is not a set of strong tackles and is only marginally better than last year. And you are ignoring injuries in 2024, that always happen, so what are we going to do when we have two injuries?

It is always very difficult if you lose 2 players at a position. A team needs four OT's to cover such a contingency. Our 4th would be Onwenu. With two injuries, the one left would play opposite Onwenu. Oviously, a PS player would also need to elevated.

What would we do if we lose 2 TE's or even 2 RB's?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

It is always very difficult if you lose 2 players at a position. A team needs four OT's to cover such a contingency. Our 4th would be Onwenu. With two injuries, the one left would play opposite Onwenu. Oviously, a PS player would also need to elevated.

What would we do if we lose 2 TE's or even 2 RB's?

We lost two OL last year. Strange and Anderson. That is why I asked. Losing two OL is not unusual.

 

[Real fan 02]

I went to camp yesterday for the first time this offseason, I saw the offense screw up at least twice on the snap count or pre snap operation... Maye was under center both times. Not for nothing, but I also saw the defense jump offsides once.

They're installing an entirely new offensive system with a QB who is 21 years old. It will take some time and a lot of reps for them to get comfortable and run a clean operation. I didn't see any screw ups with Brissett under center but maybe I missed one.

I also saw one stupid good tight window throw by Maye that made me sit up and say damn... haven't seen a laser like that in years attending camp. If they can shake the rust off, get a good grasp on the system they should be fine. This is why Brissett was a great signing this offseason. Any young QB was going to need a vet in front of him to watch and emulate. Just having a coach tell you what to do was not enough.

Now, can they block worth a damn is the real question... we'll see when the pads come on.

Good stuff. I've been following practice on patriots unfiltered. They said pop has been out and so had Gibson. I don't have any concerns about the offense. This is what camp is for. Working all all the kinks, the mistakes, the miscues.. people may not want to believe it.. but I'm sure Mahomes has missed some throws in camp too!

 

[stinkypete]

I think the line will be stout up the middle but a problem at the tackles for most of the year. Chuks and Anderson are below average guys to begin with. Things will settle down once Wallace gets his legs under him, which I believe will happen, but on a rookie's timeline.

 

[mgteich]

We lost two OL last year. Strange and Anderson. That is why I asked. Losing two OL is not unusual.

I think that we have at least the normal amount of position flexibility. Losing one IOL or one OT should be a major issue. We are likely to carry the normal 9 OL's with additional OL's on the Practice Squad.

We could carry 10 OL's (a 4th OT). I would think that this would be necessary if we don't think that we rely on both Anderson and Okorafor at LT. RT is less an issue since Onwenu could move to RT if necessary.

If the rookies are not ready for prime time, perhaps we could carry Mafi for awhile.
=================
So, for me, the open question is whether we should carry 10 OT's. I favor 10 OT's over 6 WR's.
QB (3)
WR (5)
TE (3)
RB (4)
OL (9)
We reasonably could have 0-2 more players on Offense, not counting Strange who will start on PUP or IR.

 

[Wozzy]

Good stuff. I've been following practice on patriots unfiltered. They said pop has been out and so had Gibson. I don't have any concerns about the offense. This is what camp is for. Working all all the kinks, the mistakes, the miscues.. people may not want to believe it.. but I'm sure Mahomes has missed some throws in camp too!

Agreed, people forget every offseason why practice exists, it's not to work on your strengths, it's to work on weaknesses and experiment.

This means you play small nickel CB's on the outside against bigger receivers, you put your QB's and kickers under stress tests to see how they'll perform, you play offensive lineman in different positions to see how versatile they are and in case they have to switch in the middle of a real game due to injuries, you make your linebackers try to cover faster RB's and WR's because they just might get caught in that poor matchup in a real game. Physical receivers work on their timing routes, lighter less physical receivers work on breaking press coverage.

Practice is about working on your weaknesses and making them strengths, continually working on things you already do well is not helping you improve.

 

[jdlboot14]

I'm fine with all the draft picks and offseason moves - even the reloading of their own guys.
But, the only thing they didn't do - that was a well-known must-have - was sign or draft a legit LT.
MAYBE Chuks or Anderson can manage, and let's hope it solidifies soon. But it is hard to tell at this point in non-padded practice.
With our cap space, I could see Wolf making a move if LT is sorely lacking.

 

[Triumph]

Not too bad retrospectively. If they were to have that kind of record this year, most people with realistic expectations would be pretty happy.

Not really.

NE finished 8 - 9 and in 3rd place in the AFCE only because the NY Jets were 7 - 10. No signature victories whatsoever unless you want to hang your hat on 3 wins vs 9 - 8 teams 1 game above .500 - Pittsburgh, Detroit and Miami. The rest are AZ 4 - 13, NYJ 7 - 10, Cleve 7 - 10, INDY 4 - 12 - 1. Beating lousy teams isnt improving and those 2 guaranteed NY Jet wins are off the table in 2024.

 

[Wozzy]

We lost two OL last year. Strange and Anderson. That is why I asked. Losing two OL is not unusual.

They lost two in Strange and Anderson, but if you look at the injury list they lost an important player elsewhere for a game here and there. They had no consistency or continuity at any point.



They also had internal strife with a line coach teaching west coast concepts to a team that didn't employ them and coaches butting heads with ownership. The WR room was also almost as injury prone as the line. Adrian Klemm packed up his crap and disappeared midseason... it was total calamity.

Even if they sustain some injuries here or there this season, happens every year, they should be markedly better than last year simply because the internal dysfunction no longer exists. If they can stay really healthy and get some contributions from rookies and second year players this O-Line could be good. We'll see when the pads come on...