Meet Our Free Safety

[Real fan 02]

This is also a much different league than when Lawyer Milloy got traded, back then most defenses were still 3/4 or 4/3... it hadn't morphed into the passing league it is now. Now nickel packages are the base defense and there are a lot more safeties on the field. For many years now the Patriots have utilized multi safety backfields.

Whether it was Chung and Duron Harmon at SS with DMC at FS, or Duggar and Adrian Phillips with DMC at FS... it is now a 3 or more safety base defense.

That is absolutely correct. We play so many dime formations, that's how you combat a burrow or Mahomes or allen.. the more guys you have in those dime packages especially for a team like us where our secondary is among the top in the league guys are so versatile and can line up in different alignments.. having gonzo back alone makes the defense so much better. It's important to extend peppers.. he was even saying how mayo was one the one main guys keeping his spirits up when he was recovering from his knee injury and not at 100%.

 

[Wozzy]

Reply

I believe our base Defense is the nickel, just like almost every team in the NFL.

We do NOT have a 3-safety base.

I do believe that we did run the dime with 3 safeties more than any other team.

If we ran a 3-safety base, we would need to have 4 or 5 safeties, or we wouldn't have backups. Also, we wouldn't have a need for so many corners.

Go look at the snap counts of the late teen dynasty defenses...

Chung/Harmon/DMC, which was then replaced by Duggar/Phillips/DMC, which was then replaced by Duggar/Peppers/Wade or Mills the last two years...

These ^ have been leading snap getters on the entire defense, they've been a three safety team the better part of a decade at least.

They run a lot of dime, they've had a lot of safeties, corners and defensive backs period.

 

[Wozzy]

That is absolutely correct. We play so many dime formations, that's how you combat a burrow or Mahomes or allen.. the more guys you have in those dime packages especially for a team like us where our secondary is among the top in the league guys are so versatile and can line up in different alignments.. having gonzo back alone makes the defense so much better. It's important to extend peppers.. he was even saying how mayo was one the one main guys keeping his spirits up when he was recovering from his knee injury and not at 100%.

When defenses started running more nickel, the first thing BB did was replace his 3/4 weak side linebacker with a strong safety. Not to say they haven't employed smallish LB's, they still have a few now in Mapu who is new to the ranks, Takitaki and Elliss. But team speed improves and the closest thing they had to a fast smallish linebacker who played well in the box was Chung.

 

[Real fan 02]

When defenses started running more nickel, the first thing BB did was replace his 3/4 weak side linebacker with a strong safety. Not to say they haven't employed smallish LB's, they still have a few now in Mapu who is new to the ranks, Takitaki and Elliss. But team speed improves and the closest thing they had to a fast smallish linebacker who played well in the box was Chung.

Absolutely. LBs like Tavai, has excelled in this defense. A guy that I feel has all pro potential.. he can cover, he's excellent from sideline to sideline.. he can also cover in space.. we definitely have a much faster, aggressive defense heading into this season. I just believe we have the formula on defense to frustrate offenses no matter who's the QB..

 

[Wozzy]

Absolutely. LBs like Tavai, has excelled in this defense. A guy that I feel has all pro potential.. he can cover, he's excellent from sideline to sideline.. he can also cover in space.. we definitely have a much faster, aggressive defense heading into this season. I just believe we have the formula on defense to frustrate offenses no matter who's the QB..

With Bentley and Tavai they still have two thumpers in the middle... which is probably all you need running nickel all the time. Tavai is more of a lunchpail guy getting by on smarts and instincts more than pure athleticism. I like the player, but don't see All Pro in his future. The defense as a whole is the same defense as last season, with all their best players who got injured back healthy, there's no reason short of health or total calamity on offense again this shouldn't be a top five unit.

 

[Real fan 02]

With Bentley and Tavai they still have two thumpers in the middle... which is probably all you need running nickel all the time. Tavai is more of a lunchpail guy getting by on smarts and instincts more than pure athleticism. I like the player, but don't see All Pro in his future. The defense as a whole is the same defense as last season, with all their best players who got injured back healthy, there's no reason short of health or total calamity on offense again this shouldn't be a top five unit.

What I meant by all pro potential is he's a LB that can do it all.. say he has 100 plus tackles, and a bunch for a loss.. he will get consideration at his position.. he's a budding star in this defense for sure. Guy just does it all. Yes to your point. We lead the league I believe or close to in time that our D was on the field.

 

[Wozzy]

What I meant by all pro potential is he's a LB that can do it all.. say he has 100 plus tackles, and a bunch for a loss.. he will get consideration at his position.. he's a budding star in this defense for sure. Guy just does it all. Yes to your point. We lead the league I believe or close to in time that our D was on the field.

Our offense last season was dead last in time of possession, 28th in fewest plays run, 31st worst on third downs and 28th in turnovers… anything better will help.

 

[Real fan 02]

Our offense last season was dead last in time of possession, 28th in fewest plays run, 31st worst on third downs and 28th in turnovers… anything better will help.

Just pitiful. At times it looked like the NAVY offense. Q middling offense makes us a team in the hunt.

 

[Wozzy]

Just pitiful. At times it looked like the NAVY offense. Q middling offense makes us a team in the hunt.

The offense was a clusterfk… just having coaches running the same system and in harmony will be a big improvement. It was a perfect storm of poop last year.

 

[mgteich]

Go look at the snap counts of the late teen dynasty defenses...

Chung/Harmon/DMC, which was then replaced by Duggar/Phillips/DMC, which was then replaced by Duggar/Peppers/Wade or Mills the last two years...

These ^ have been leading snap getters on the entire defense, they've been a three safety team the better part of a decade at least.

They run a lot of dime, they've had a lot of safeties, corners and defensive backs period.

Yes, we r

When defenses started running more nickel, the first thing BB did was replace his 3/4 weak side linebacker with a strong safety. Not to say they haven't employed smallish LB's, they still have a few now in Mapu who is new to the ranks, Takitaki and Elliss. But team speed improves and the closest thing they had to a fast smallish linebacker who played well in the box was Chung.

FOR CLARIFICATION

1) What defense do you believe is out BASE defense. The BASE defense is the one we usually us to start the game and to start most drives.
3-4 with 4 DB's
4-3 with 4 DB's
5 DB's (nickel)
6 DB's (dime)

IMO, we used to run a 3-4 and moved to nickel (2 corners, 2 safeties and a nickel corner) as the base
And, IMO, we sometimes us the BIG NICKEL with a safety as the nickel.

 

[mgteich]

With Bentley and Tavai they still have two thumpers in the middle... which is probably all you need running nickel all the time. Tavai is more of a lunchpail guy getting by on smarts and instincts more than pure athleticism. I like the player, but don't see All Pro in his future. The defense as a whole is the same defense as last season, with all their best players who got injured back healthy, there's no reason short of health or total calamity on offense again this shouldn't be a top five unit.

Also, we have Takitaki, and we will likely keep McMillan this year because of the minor camp injuries. I think that we are strong at ILB.

I'm also OK with our EDGE layers: Judon, Jennings, White and Oche

 

[Wozzy]

Yes, we r

FOR CLARIFICATION

1) What defense do you believe is out BASE defense. The BASE defense is the one we usually us to start the game and to start most drives.
3-4 with 4 DB's
4-3 with 4 DB's
5 DB's (nickel)
6 DB's (dime)

IMO, we used to run a 3-4 and moved to nickel (2 corners, 2 safeties and a nickel corner) as the base
And, IMO, we sometimes us the BIG NICKEL with a safety as the nickel.

All I know is since the days of Duron Harmon and Pat Chung the Pats have run a three safety defense as their primary defense with DMC at free safety. This is evidenced in the defensive snap counts, those three players sit at or near the top of the list every year they were healthy. And when personnel changed, the three safety defense stuck, only the names changed.

They still play the 3/4 defense, they just utilize nickel and dime packages more than their base package. Nobody runs those antiquated defenses anymore, except maybe on short downs or goal line. The shortest most easiest explanation was they swapped out their weak side linebacker for another Strong Safety... this made it difficult for opposing QB's to figure out who was covering and who was staying home. Snap counts don't lie...

 

[Wozzy]

Also, we have Takitaki, and we will likely keep McMillan this year because of the minor camp injuries. I think that we are strong at ILB.

I'm also OK with our EDGE layers: Judon, Jennings, White and Oche

McMillan has never stayed healthy, I doubt he ever will. They need to give up on the ghost of Raekwon.

I see Mapu stepping into a more regular role this year with Adrian Phillips and Mack Wilson gone, he is that tweener who is better playing at the line of scrimmage. If he falters as a younger player, I like Takitaki behind him and Christian Elliss is also a very good athlete... both guys play special teams so it will be hard to cut them barring injury.

 

[TheRainMaker]

They still play the 3/4 defense, they just utilize nickel and dime packages more than their base package.

You are one of the very few that actually see this.

 

[mgteich]

You are one of the very few that actually see this.

this is semantics

If we start with 5 defensive backs and play 5 or 6 Db's most of the time, our BASE is nickel.

 

[mgteich]

McMillan has never stayed healthy, I doubt he ever will. They need to give up on the ghost of Raekwon.

I see Mapu stepping into a more regular role this year with Adrian Phillips and Mack Wilson gone, he is that tweener who is better playing at the line of scrimmage. If he falters as a younger player, I like Takitaki behind him and Christian Elliss is also a very good athlete... both guys play special teams so it will be hard to cut them barring injury.

Mapu 235
Bently 255
Tavai 250
Takitaki 245
McMillan 250

Which of these is not like the others?

If we need someone to come in for Tavia or Bently, I think that will be TakiTaki.

McMillan has a chance because Bentley has had minor injuries lately.
========
You mention Mapu getting more reps because Phillips and Mack Wilson are gone. Sure, he will get more ST reps,

 

[Wozzy]

this is semantics

If we start with 5 defensive backs and play 5 or 6 Db's most of the time, our BASE is nickel.

The system is determined by the front, not the defensive backfield.

 

[Wozzy]

Mapu 235
Bently 255
Tavai 250
Takitaki 245
McMillan 250

Which of these is not like the others?

If we need someone to come in for Tavia or Bently, I think that will be TakiTaki.

McMillan has a chance because Bentley has had minor injuries lately.
========
You mention Mapu getting more reps because Phillips and Mack Wilson are gone. Sure, he will get more ST reps,

I was very specific above when I spoke about weakside linebacker. I wasn’t lumping the entire LB room into the conversation. Weak side linebackers are smaller and quicker, think Mayo. Nowadays they are tough to differentiate from Strong Safeties… which was my point.

Duggar and Peppers will play max snaps asssuming health, Wade or some CB will play Free Safety. That leaves Mapu or Takitaki to play weakside LB role that was occupied last season by Mack Wilson. He came in on third downs or passing downs and made timely plays to kill drives.

There are defensive snaps to be had with both Adrian Phillips and Mack Wilson gone. We should see more defensive snaps from Mapu. He already played a lot of special teams reps last year, that’s how you earn defensive snaps and probably why they let these other guys walk.

 

[TheRainMaker]

this is semantics

If we start with 5 defensive backs and play 5 or 6 Db's most of the time, our BASE is nickel.

But they don't. If you watch the film, it's as clear as day they are in a 3-4 alignment.

 

[Real fan 02]

You are one of the very few that actually see this.