Meet Our Free Safety

[mgteich]

I like Peppers, but nobody seems to agree with your assessment. If he was, he’d be a 1st team or 2nd team All Pro or Pro Bowler.

Signing Dugger with Peppers already on the roster is redundant. Franchising Dugger backfired and that money could’ve been applied elsewhere and Peppers could’ve taken his place. It makes the Mapu look even worse. What are you going to do with him?

believe as you will

Highest-graded safeties from the 2023 NFL season: Antoine Winfield Jr. shines

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers' Antoine Winfield Jr. led safeties in PFF grade in 2023, followed by the Atlanta Falcons' Jessie Bates III.

www.pff.com

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I would sign no top free agents from other team. Perhaps Gilmore should be the exception. His signing would provide veteran leadership to the cornerback corps.
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Consider what Wolf did.
He decided which of our won he wanted to keep and re-signed them.

And then, how many free agents from other teams did he sign to a contract of more than a year? just Gibson and Takitaki I think. All the rest were the usual one-year fill-in and perhaps show me contracts. I think that these two wouldn't have been signed if we were able to re-sign Zeke and Mack.

The only real exception is the continuing effort to acquire a #1 WR. Here, Wolf is willing to pay. But make no mistake, any 2024 compensation is essentially a waste, only justified if he thought that that the cost for 2025-2027 would be more than for 2024-2027. Of course, top WR's are hard to find and he may not be willing to pay the $30M a year that an Aijuk wants.

Agreed. As you highlight, the 2024 Pats' FA approach was a loser approach. Teams looking to win act differently in FA. Seems like you support the loser FA approach.

 

[mgteich]

Agreed. As you highlight, the 2024 Pats' FA approach was a loser approach. Teams looking to win act differently in FA. Seems like you support the loser FA approach.

you are free to call the approach "the loser approach"

Each of us have different names for approaches with which we disagree.

 

[TheRainMaker]

believe as you will

Highest-graded safeties from the 2023 NFL season: Antoine Winfield Jr. shines

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers' Antoine Winfield Jr. led safeties in PFF grade in 2023, followed by the Atlanta Falcons' Jessie Bates III.

www.pff.com

PFF has been known to come up with the most arbitrary stats to pump some random player up and only used to help push internet arguments. He still didn’t make the All Pro team/Pro Bowl and is not mentioned to be considered one of the best by most analysts. I mean, how many times did you hear Peppers being talked about during the Patriots broadcasts?

 

[mgteich]

PFF has been known to come up with the most arbitrary stats to pump some random player up and only used to help push internet arguments. He still didn’t make the All Pro team/Pro Bowl and is not mentioned to be considered one of the best by most analysts. I mean how many times did you hear Peppers being talked about during the patriots broadcast?

I mean how many times did you hear Peppers being talked about during the patriots broadcast?

A fine reason for not re-signing him.
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Whether we extend him or not, you will disagree. After all, it would be the present regime's decision.

 

[TheRainMaker]

A fine reason for not re-signing him.
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Whether we extend him or not, you will disagree. After all, it would be the present regime's decision.

That has nothing to do with what I was responding to.

 

[mgteich]

Hawkins was waived last October by the Falcons. If we are depending on Hawkins at FS, this season will be worse than expected. Sign a real FS like Simmons.

OK, so we should sign Simmons and bench Peppers, to the role of Mills last year?

 

[mgteich]

That has nothing to do with what I was responding to.

agreed

just adding perspective

It is no different with me. Folks presume, not having more information, would expect that I would usually agree with the actions of the current regime.

 

[TheRainMaker]

OK, so we should sign Simmons and bench Peppers, to the role of Mills last year?

Peppers is a box Safety. This is why signing Dugger was a bad move.

They were rotating players at the single high S position last year and they struggled badly.

 

[mgteich]

Peppers is a box Safety. This is why signing Dugger was a bad move.

They were rotating players at the single high S position last year and they struggled badly.

yup, the Defense struggled and struggled. That's why we will only 3 or 4 games this year. NOT

 

[Real fan 02]

Peppers is a box Safety. This is why signing Dugger was a bad move.

They were rotating players at the single high S position last year and they struggled badly.

I would not say signing Dugger was a bad move at all.. the absence of a FS last season affected his game some. He was all pro level in '22.. however peppers is my guy..

 

[TheRainMaker]

I would not say signing Dugger was a bad move at all.. the absence of a FS last season affected his game some. He was all pro level in '22.. however peppers is my guy..

This was the same dilemma the Pats had in 2003. The initial plan was to have both Milloy and Harrison, but Bill changed his mind and gave Milloy an ultimatum to reduce his salary or be cut. Dugger and Peppers are redundant.

 

[Real fan 02]

This was the same dilemma the Pats had in 2003. The initial plan was to have both Milloy and Harrison, but Bill changed his mind and gave Milloy an ultimatum to reduce his salary or be cut. Dugger and Peppers are redundant.

How could I forget.. loved milloy! Yes hot rod made him expendable.. thus prompting Bill to release him. I'll say those alpha dogs Willie, ty, milloy they didn't give any home town discounts during negotiations. Peppers will re up on a 3 year deal is my hunch.. we typically play 3 safeties.. so Hawkins at FS, Dugger and Peppers at the SS spots..

 

[mgteich]

This was the same dilemma the Pats had in 2003. The initial plan was to have both Milloy and Harrison, but Bill changed his mind and gave Milloy an ultimatum to reduce his salary or be cut. Dugger and Peppers are redundant.

cutting Milloy was wrong then, and cutting Peppers would be even more wrong now
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That being said, everything will depend on how much the parties want to agree.

 

[Wozzy]

Jaylinn Hawkins is a good special teams player maybe, a backup strong safety, but he's not a starting free safety.

A free safety should be a CB who can play facing the offense, who can come down to play slot CB, or man up bigger WR's... have speed and range. That's not Hawkins...

I suspect Shaun Wade will get the free safety job, or maybe they'll convert one of the young CB's if they show they are wise beyond their years.

 

[TheRainMaker]

cutting Milloy was wrong then, and cutting Peppers would be even more wrong now
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That being said, everything will depend on how much the parties want to agree.

It was a bad business move because of the timing, but it turned out to be the right move. Eugene Wilson had a very good rookie season at FS. Milloy and Harrison couldn't co-exist on the field together.

And I'm not implying to cut Peppers. Peppers won't/shouldn't re-sign because he can get a starting job elsewhere where they will pay him more money.

 

[Wozzy]

cutting Milloy was wrong then, and cutting Peppers would be even more wrong now

Cutting Milloy was over money, unfortunately the salary cap exists.

It worked out as they won the Super Bowl that season... and the next one.

 

[Real fan 02]

It was a bad business move because of the timing, but it turned out to be the right move. Eugene Wilson had a very good rookie season at FS. Milloy and Harrison couldn't co-exist on the field together.

And I'm not implying to cut Peppers. Peppers won't/shouldn't re-sign because he can get a starting job elsewhere where they will pay him more money.

That may be true. But peppers himself said this defense is the best defense for him as it utilizes all his skill set. He said he wants to he here for the reset, and possibly retire a Patriot. I don't think there is defense in the league that asks so much of thier players like we do. Peppers is a must to keep around for a multitude of reasons. He's a locker room general, he lays it all out each snap, a vocal and emotional leader on the field as well as a tone setter.

 

[Wozzy]

That may be true. But peppers himself said this defense is the best defense for him as it utilizes all his skill set. He said he wants to he here for the reset, and possibly retire a Patriot. I don't think there is defense in the league that asks so much of thier players like we do. Peppers is a must to keep around for a multitude of reasons. He's a locker room general, he lays it all out each snap, a vocal and emotional leader on the field as well as a tone setter.

This is also a much different league than when Lawyer Milloy got traded, back then most defenses were still 3/4 or 4/3... it hadn't morphed into the passing league it is now. Now nickel packages are the base defense and there are a lot more safeties on the field. For many years now the Patriots have utilized multi safety backfields.

Whether it was Chung and Duron Harmon at SS with DMC at FS, or Duggar and Adrian Phillips with DMC at FS... it is now a 3 or more safety base defense.

 

[mgteich]

Reply

This is also a much different league than when Lawyer Milloy got traded, back then most defenses were still 3/4 or 4/3... it hadn't morphed into the passing league it is now. Now nickel packages are the base defense and there are a lot more safeties on the field. For many years now the Patriots have utilized multi safety backfields.

Whether it was Chung and Duron Harmon at SS with DMC at FS, or Duggar and Adrian Phillips with DMC at FS... it is now a 3 or more safety base defense.

I believe our base Defense is the nickel, just like almost every team in the NFL.

We do NOT have a 3-safety base.

I do believe that we did run the dime with 3 safeties more than any other team.

If we ran a 3-safety base, we would need to have 4 or 5 safeties, or we wouldn't have backups. Also, we wouldn't have a need for so many corners.