There's a chance Zappe starts over Brissett

[Huckleberry1]

You didn’t say it (afaik, I don’t read every post), and I didn’t claim you did. I didn’t put words in your mouth. Did you see the question mark?

My opinion is that Hoyer is NOT better than Zappe, yet he has had a long career. Sure, he’s bounced around, been out of the league, but always comes back. Nine teams have decided at some point that Brian Hoyer is an NFL QB. And if Hoyer is an NFL QB (which he clearly is, according to a slew of teams), and if Zappe is as good or better than Hoyer, then Zappe is also an NFL QB.

Now you might say that Hoyer brings more to the table than his play. Could be. Hard to argue against something subjective like that. But he still might get in a game, and he better be an NFL when he does.

I think your QB evaluation methodology, whatever it is (“I don’t like this player”?) is whack.

If your standard is that anyone who can stay on a roster, but isn’t good enough to win with when called upon, is an NFL QB then you’re right, every QB in the NFL is an NFL QB. Technically speaking that’s correct. If the standard is that an NFL QB is one you can reliably start and win with then Zappe isn’t one, and that’s my standard. And imo Joe Milton has the potential to turn into an NFL QB, and Bailey Zappe doesn’t. So I believe they should release Zappe and keep Milton.

 

[sb1]

It’s bizarre how Mac Jones was traded, but Zappe stays. That’s dysfunction right there.

Do we know for sure that Jones was the sole cause of the "toxic QB room" last season or did Zappe have a lot to do with that? Either way separating them made sense.

 

[Real fan 02]

Any Sydney Sweeney mentions should come with a photo.

I just need your expertise on something. When we won what percentage would you said brady had in QB play?

What percentage would you say the position was an issue the last 2 seasons?

 

[mgteich]

If Brissett gets hurt do you think Maye starts, or is it Zappe time?

Yes, if Brissett is injured, Zappe will start Game 1. However, I don't think that this is the subject of this thread. Some folks think that Zappe is competing with Brissett for his starting spot, which I don't think is the case. I think that is more likely that Zappe is cut before camp than he is competing to start.

 

[mgteich]

If your standard is that anyone who can stay on a roster, but isn’t good enough to win with when called upon, is an NFL QB then you’re right, every QB in the NFL is an NFL QB. Technically speaking that’s correct. If the standard is that an NFL QB is one you can reliably start and win with then Zappe isn’t one, and that’s my standard. And imo Joe Milton has the potential to turn into an NFL QB, and Bailey Zappe doesn’t. So I believe they should release Zappe and keep Milton.

OK, you set the standard.

How many NFL quarterbacks are there now on NFL teams?

 

[mgteich]

If Zappe is so awful, should be cut, and never allowed to don a Pats uniform ever again, then why IS he still there?

Zappe could be there because
1) We try to have a camp fodder #4 QB for camp.
2) It cost nothing. Maybe, we can trade him for a 6th or 7th before or during camp.
3) He is free insurance against a Brissette injury, if they can get Milton ready to be the backup until Maye is ready.
4) Zappe is a backup going into the season unless Maye and Milton are ready to play.
5) Zappe is the #4 going into the season, there until either Maye or Milton is ready for prime time.

 

[sb1]

I just need your expertise on something. When we won what percentage would you said brady had in QB play?

It's hard to pinpoint an exact percentage. Having Brady be that rock made everyone look better and that includes the defensive side of the ball. Much easier to play defense when you can count on your offense to score.

What percentage would you say the position was an issue the last 2 seasons?

Again hard to say because we didn't have good skill players on that side of the ball the last two seasons to help the QB. I'd say offense was 90% of the problem with the other 10% the defense wasn't as good as people think it is.

 

[mgteich]

Zappe is getting cut and then brought back to the PS after he clears waivers, same as the last two years.

He ain’t starting. (Period)

Who starts if Brissett is injured in the pre-season? Perhaps the answer is that Brissett shouldn't play any pre-season games.

 

[Real fan 02]

It's hard to pinpoint an exact percentage. Having Brady be that rock made everyone look better and that includes the defensive side of the ball. Much easier to play defense when you can count on your offense to score.

Again hard to say because we didn't have good skill players on that side of the ball the last two seasons to help the QB. I'd say offense was 90% of the problem with the other 10% the defense wasn't as good as people think it is.

Thanks for that insight. I guess I'm getting pushback because I said 90% of the issue was the QB position. So I looked at the turnovers. Any QB in the NFL if your turning the ball over your over going to give the team a chance. Look at Tampa Bay Winston was definitely 90% of the problem. The QB was changed and they win a championship.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Now hear me out: Zappe could start over Brissett.

There are a few prerequisites to believing this might happen. You must believe or accept:

1. 1. Mayo's claim that QB1 is up for grabs (but not for the rookies).
2. 2. Either the Pats are going with 4 QBs OR that Milton is going to the PS.
3. 3. The Pats will not start the season with Maye (or Milton) as QB1 or QB2.
4. 4. Zappe can outplay Brissett in the preseason.

Now, I'm no Zappe apologist, but I'm also not a hater. I suspect the gap between Zappe and Brissett is small enough such that it's possible that Zappe outplays him in the preseason. I admit it's not likely, but man, it sure would be entertaining to see the heads of Zappe haters exploding if Zappe lights it up and Mayo starts him as QB1, true to his word.

0.0% chance that Zappe will start over Brissett, if he even makes the roster, unless JB suffers an injury late in training camp AND they have a very compelling reason to not start Maye week 1.

 

[sb1]

Thanks for that insight. I guess I'm getting pushback because I said 90% of the issue was the QB position. So I looked at the turnovers. Any QB in the NFL if your turning the ball over your over going to give the team a chance. Look at Tampa Bay Winston was definitely 90% of the problem. The QB was changed and they win a championship.

Some guys are just gunslingers (like Bledsoe) or they don't understand their own limitations.

For Winston here's some context on his 30 ints that year and this is coming from one of his receivers.

Buccaneers' Chris Godwin defends Jameis Winston, says half of his interceptions weren't his fault

Godwin believes that Winston got more blame than he deserved

www.cbssports.com

The quarterbacking was wretched here last season, but it was a symptom of the personnel on offense and coaching and not just one guy. If Jones was the sole problem Zappe would have stepped in there and outplayed Jones and that didn't happen.

 

[mgteich]

So I believe they should release Zappe and keep Milton.

I guess that I agree if we are discussing the cut to 53.

I'm not a fan of 4 Qb's, although I could see it happening. This might happen if they want to keep Milton. Zappe can be cut whenever the rest are ready for primetime.

 

[rochrist]

The quarterbacking was wretched here last season, but it was a symptom of the personnel on offense and coaching and not just one guy. If Jones was the sole problem Zappe would have stepped in there and outplayed Jones and that didn't happen.

That assumes that Zappe wasn't as bad as Jones. He pretty much was.

 

[Real fan 02]

Some guys are just gunslingers (like Bledsoe) or they don't understand their own limitations.

For Winston here's some context on his 30 ints that year and this is coming from one of his receivers.

Buccaneers' Chris Godwin defends Jameis Winston, says half of his interceptions weren't his fault

Godwin believes that Winston got more blame than he deserved

www.cbssports.com

The quarterbacking was wretched here last season, but it was a symptom of the personnel on offense and coaching and not just one guy. If Jones was the sole problem Zappe would have stepped in there and outplayed Jones and that didn't happen.

Agreed and fair assessment. I guess I was just focusing on how bad the position had gotten. So I digress, and say that the offense was 90% of the problem with the QB having played a large part. Is that a fair assessment?

 

[Real fan 02]

Yes, if Brissett is injured, Zappe will start Game 1. However, I don't think that this is the subject of this thread. Some folks think that Zappe is competing with Brissett for his starting spot, which I don't think is the case. I think that is more likely that Zappe is cut before camp than he is competing to start.

Mayo said he wants to get to 3 QBs by the end of camp. Who do you anticipate the 3 QBs?

 

[Real fan 02]

It's hard to pinpoint an exact percentage. Having Brady be that rock made everyone look better and that includes the defensive side of the ball. Much easier to play defense when you can count on your offense to score.

Again hard to say because we didn't have good skill players on that side of the ball the last two seasons to help the QB. I'd say offense was 90% of the problem with the other 10% the defense wasn't as good as people think it is.

Patriots Star Admits He's 'Pretty Close' On Contract Extension

Rhamondre Stevenson enters the final year of his rookie contract, but the Patriots running back gave an optimistic update Monday.

nesn.com

 

[mgteich]

Mayo said he wants to get to 3 QBs by the end of camp. Who do you anticipate the 3 QBs?

With Brissett healthy, I think that Maye WANTS the 3 to be Brissett, Maye and Milton.

For me, Milton is the question mark. If he is to be on the 53, he has to be trusted enough to be put under center for part of a game, or even for a game or two. There is little risk if he is given a very abbreviated Offense to run. We would likely lose those games, but that shouldn't be an issue.

Milton is very weak at short or intermediate passing. Coaches should certainly be working on that.

I suspect that we are ready to have Maye start if Brissette is injured in the first couple of games. If not, Milton can start and lose a couple of games that we would have lost anyway.

 

[Real fan 02]

With Brissett healthy, I think that Maye WANTS the 3 to be Brissett, Maye and Milton.

For me, Milton is the question mark. If he is to be on the 53, he has to be trusted enough to be put under center for part of a game, or even for a game or two. There is little risk if he is given a very abbreviated Offense to run. We would likely lose those games, but that shouldn't be an issue.

Milton is very weak at short or intermediate passing. Coaches should certainly be working on that.

I suspect that we are ready to have Maye start if Brissette is injured in the first couple of games. If not, Milton can start and lose a couple of games that we would have lost anyway.

Agreed, I know the coaching staff have been very impressed on how quickly Maye has come on. That's exactly what you want to see from your franchise QB. Yes cannon Joe is a project and will definitely develop under AVP. For some reason I'm very optimistic about the season, I know we will have our struggles. I suspect the offense will be leaps and bounds better

 

[Huckleberry1]

With Brissett healthy, I think that Maye WANTS the 3 to be Brissett, Maye and Milton.

For me, Milton is the question mark. If he is to be on the 53, he has to be trusted enough to be put under center for part of a game, or even for a game or two. There is little risk if he is given a very abbreviated Offense to run. We would likely lose those games, but that shouldn't be an issue.

Milton is very weak at short or intermediate passing. Coaches should certainly be working on that.

I suspect that we are ready to have Maye start if Brissette is injured in the first couple of games. If not, Milton can start and lose a couple of games that we would have lost anyway.

Mi don’t worry about carrying Milton as the 3. If there’s a significant injury they can pull a vet off the out of circulation group, as the Browns did with Flacco last season. Almost all would be better than Zappe.

 

[mgteich]

Mi don’t worry about carrying Milton as the 3. If there’s a significant injury they can pull a vet off the out of circulation group, as the Browns did with Flacco last season. Almost all would be better than Zappe.

for sure

If Brissett is injured at anytime, Maye and Milton aren't ready, a veteran should be signed.

However, let's consider the first 3 games when perhaps Maye should not be playing.

GAME ONE, TWO and THREE
Isn't Milton the backup QB if Brissett is injured on the first series, with Maye as the emergency QB? Yes, we would immediately sign a veteran who might start the next game or we might have Milton start a game.