Celtics championships past, now and in the future.

[BobDigital]

The Celtics are currently tied for most championships in NBA history with the Lakers. Sadly a lot of those happened in the old NBA before the 70s which in some ways makes them a bit harder to care about for most fans. Not to mention less competition existed (only 14 teams) and 3 rounds for 8 teams total. Which is still hard but a lot of the talent in the 60s and 50s was more concentrated I'm told (but i wasn't alive then). And it is even worse when you count their 1st win back in 56/57 when there were only 8 teams.

The point is the Celtics talking about those wins isn't so unlike GB talking about their NFL championships pre super bowl as we would like. Though at least the Celtics in 56 had to go through a tournament even if only 4 teams were in it. So if the Lakers want to crown themselves the true king of the NBA, unfortunately I am forced to agree. Ever since Magic won 5 and Bird won 3 (due to injury mind you, but still) it has only gone down hill and the Celtics have fallen further and further behind.

We have been forced to watch them and other teams win as we've been unable to attract stars or get lucky in the lottery. Then suddenly in 08 the stars aligned. KG and Allen came to town and with Pierce and a very good supporting cast behind them it was believed we could put banners on the ceiling. After seeing the domination in 08 and knowing these guys had years of gas in the tank left. It was a question of how many more they could get. Then nothing happened. Close calls and near misses with what should have been a multi championship team. And even worse, we lost another to the damn Lakers and their uncaring fans.

Celtics fans should rightly feel like they could and should have gotten more with these runs and with those players. Now we have another core and another window over the next two years and maybe again later if we can cobble things together to make another trade. I am tired of leaving money on the table. Not only do i want them to win this year after a strong 1-0 start against what is clearly an outmatched team. I want them to do what other Celtics teams have failed to do in the past and fulfill their potential and win again next year.

THEN I want them to find away to get one more with Tatum/Brown and whoever else they can scrounge up at some point after they blow this team up in 25' at some point before they need to move on from them. Even though the Celtics have been among the most successful NBA teams since 1970 on not named LA, it isn't unfair to say we are owed a few damn breaks. And yes, even with the Brooklyn trade I think we are owed one or two more.

 

[aluminum seats]

So if the Lakers want to crown themselves the true king of the NBA, unfortunately I am forced to agree.

Nope. They only tie (soon to be surpassed) if you combine two franchises, one in Minnesota and one in California.

 

[turkeyneck]

Nope. They only tie (soon to be surpassed) if you combine two franchises, one in Minnesota and one in California.

LA counting Minnesota championships is like the Ravens counting championships under Paul Brown in Cleveland.

 

[maust]

The NBA teams of the 60's were stacked, the talent was less watered down with fewer teams. It wasn't a couple of stars on each team surrounded by scrubs. It wasn't just the starting 5 either, benches ran deep. And with little player movement those teams stayed together. They got well versed in their teammates games and really got to maximise each other's skills. If anything the competition was much more fierce then than now.

 

[stinkypete]

It's a wash.

This is not like the NFL where you had a merger of an old and new league, with a new championship emerging halfway into the league's existence. Like a World Series or a Stanley Cup, An NBA championship is an NBA championship, whether in a league of 8 or a league of 30. The only number that matters is who has more. If the Celtics win, they have more, and they are the undisputed greatest. If they choke, and the Lakers surpass them, then the Lakers are the undisputed greatest.

You can argue that winning a tournament of 4 is a lesser accomplishment than winning a tournament of 16, but some of the teams they had to get through were impossibly loaded with talent. We talk about the superteams of today, the late 60's Lakers that the Celtics regularly dispatched had Wilt, Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. That's insane talent.

I hope this Celtics team gets itself two or more rings. They should. Their starting 5 could be the best in the team's history. Still, the NBA is so ridiculously stacked with talented players and emerging teams that it's hard to tell.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The Celtics are currently tied for most championships in NBA history with the Lakers. Sadly a lot of those happened in the old NBA before the 70s which in some ways makes them a bit harder to care about for most fans. Not to mention less competition existed (only 14 teams) and 3 rounds for 8 teams total. Which is still hard but a lot of the talent in the 60s and 50s was more concentrated I'm told (but i wasn't alive then). And it is even worse when you count their 1st win back in 56/57 when there were only 8 teams.

The point is the Celtics talking about those wins isn't so unlike GB talking about their NFL championships pre super bowl as we would like. Though at least the Celtics in 56 had to go through a tournament even if only 4 teams were in it. So if the Lakers want to crown themselves the true king of the NBA, unfortunately I am forced to agree. Ever since Magic won 5 and Bird won 3 (due to injury mind you, but still) it has only gone down hill and the Celtics have fallen further and further behind.

We have been forced to watch them and other teams win as we've been unable to attract stars or get lucky in the lottery. Then suddenly in 08 the stars aligned. KG and Allen came to town and with Pierce and a very good supporting cast behind them it was believed we could put banners on the ceiling. After seeing the domination in 08 and knowing these guys had years of gas in the tank left. It was a question of how many more they could get. Then nothing happened. Close calls and near misses with what should have been a multi championship team. And even worse, we lost another to the damn Lakers and their uncaring fans.

Celtics fans should rightly feel like they could and should have gotten more with these runs and with those players. Now we have another core and another window over the next two years and maybe again later if we can cobble things together to make another trade. I am tired of leaving money on the table. Not only do i want them to win this year after a strong 1-0 start against what is clearly an outmatched team. I want them to do what other Celtics teams have failed to do in the past and fulfill their potential and win again next year.

THEN I want them to find away to get one more with Tatum/Brown and whoever else they can scrounge up at some point after they blow this team up in 25' at some point before they need to move on from them. Even though the Celtics have been among the most successful NBA teams since 1970 on not named LA, it isn't unfair to say we are owed a few damn breaks. And yes, even with the Brooklyn trade I think we are owed one or two more.

The KG/Truth/Ray teams got screwed by injuries. If KG doesn't get hurt in 09 they play the LAL again in the Finals. If Perk doesn't blow out his knee in G6 in '10 they don't have 'Sheed run out of gas in Q4 in G7

After that 'Bron joined the Heat and they were up 3-2 at home in 2012 and he had the game of his life. Series over.

All in all the 2008-2012 run was pretty good. 1 Title. 2 Finals. 3 ECFs in 5 years.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The KG/Truth/Ray teams got screwed by injuries. If KG doesn't get hurt in 09 they play the LAL again in the Finals. If Perk doesn't blow out his knee in G6 in '10 they don't have 'Sheed run out of gas in Q4 in G7

After that 'Bron joined the Heat and they were up 3-2 at home in 2012 and he had the game of his life. Series over.

All in all the 2008-2012 run was pretty good. 1 Title. 2 Finals. 3 ECFs in 5 years.

Great team. Always disliked Rondo’s style of play, especially for that type of team. Wish they had found a real point guard who could just bring consistency and shooting efficiency. I think they would have won more.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Great team. Always disliked Rondo’s style of play, especially for that type of team. Wish they had found a real point guard who could just bring consistency and shooting efficiency. I think they would have won more.

His on the ball defense made a huge difference on those teams.

What is a real point guard? He led the league in assists several times.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

His on the ball defense made a huge difference on those teams.

What is a real point guard? He led the league in assists several times.

Yeah he was a very good on ball defender.

He just had a very uneven offensive game. He was a horrendous 3 pt shooter for most of his Celtics career (20-25%) and a bad free throw shooter (60-65%.). Teams would just not even guard him until he crossed the foul line because of his bad shooting. He was an outstanding finisher though and overall he was a good player; but when you look at how that Celtics team was built with Allen and Pierce on the wings and Garnett down low, I thought his game messed with their spacing too.

 

[Kdo5]

Yeah he was a very good on ball defender.

He just had a very uneven offensive game. He was a horrendous 3 pt shooter for most of his Celtics career (20-25%) and a bad free throw shooter (60-65%.). Teams would just not even guard him until he crossed the foul line because of his bad shooting. He was an outstanding finisher though and overall he was a good player; but when you look at how that Celtics team was built with Allen and Pierce on the wings and Garnett down low, I thought his game messed with their spacing too.

Game has changed so much though. Three point shooting was not nearly as big a focus as it is now. Sure it’s someone they don’t have to respect much from three but I don’t think it really hurt us much when you consider the good things he did on the court.

He was an all time great passer and floor general who fit well with those three guys IMO. If he also had a good shot he would’ve been a bonafide superstar.

 

[1960Pats]

The Celtics are currently tied for most championships in NBA history with the Lakers. Sadly a lot of those happened in the old NBA before the 70s which in some ways makes them a bit harder to care about for most fans. Not to mention less competition existed (only 14 teams) and 3 rounds for 8 teams total. Which is still hard but a lot of the talent in the 60s and 50s was more concentrated I'm told (but i wasn't alive then). And it is even worse when you count their 1st win back in 56/57 when there were only 8 teams.

The point is the Celtics talking about those wins isn't so unlike GB talking about their NFL championships pre super bowl as we would like. Though at least the Celtics in 56 had to go through a tournament even if only 4 teams were in it. So if the Lakers want to crown themselves the true king of the NBA, unfortunately I am forced to agree. Ever since Magic won 5 and Bird won 3 (due to injury mind you, but still) it has only gone down hill and the Celtics have fallen further and further behind.

We have been forced to watch them and other teams win as we've been unable to attract stars or get lucky in the lottery. Then suddenly in 08 the stars aligned. KG and Allen came to town and with Pierce and a very good supporting cast behind them it was believed we could put banners on the ceiling. After seeing the domination in 08 and knowing these guys had years of gas in the tank left. It was a question of how many more they could get. Then nothing happened. Close calls and near misses with what should have been a multi championship team. And even worse, we lost another to the damn Lakers and their uncaring fans.

Celtics fans should rightly feel like they could and should have gotten more with these runs and with those players. Now we have another core and another window over the next two years and maybe again later if we can cobble things together to make another trade. I am tired of leaving money on the table. Not only do i want them to win this year after a strong 1-0 start against what is clearly an outmatched team. I want them to do what other Celtics teams have failed to do in the past and fulfill their potential and win again next year.

THEN I want them to find away to get one more with Tatum/Brown and whoever else they can scrounge up at some point after they blow this team up in 25' at some point before they need to move on from them. Even though the Celtics have been among the most successful NBA teams since 1970 on not named LA, it isn't unfair to say we are owed a few damn breaks. And yes, even with the Brooklyn trade I think we are owed one or two more.

That run wasn't sad for this fan. I was living in the land of hockey fans while being able to go watch the greatest team and player in NBA history for only a quarter for the train and $1 for the game ticket. I feel blessed. I get your point though, it does feel like we shouldn't be tied with the Lakers and let a few slip away since. But like the old saying goes, there's no sense crying over spilled milk.

The NBA was a much tougher league in the 60's and 70's and the reason is in your first paragraph. There were only 14 teams and because of that all the teams were much deeper. Picture what the current NBA would be like if you took away half the teams and redistributed all the talent. In Russell's last season as the player/coach the Celtics beat the Lakers in game #7 at LA. LA had a starting lineup with Wilt, Elgin Baylor and Jerry West. In Russell's 13 years he faced Wilt's teams 150 times (100 regular season and 50 playoffs). In LeBron's 20 years he won't face any top player half those amount of times.

And the same is true for the NFL with the 60's Packers, though one game playoffs are trickier than a series. It's easier for a football team to lose one game to an inferior opponent than for a basketball team to lose a series to one. But no team in either sport has been able to duplicate what those teams did during those runs. And in the case of the Celtics and the NBA nobody has come close. That doesn't mean that the leagues were easier then, it means that those teams were that much better than the opposition.

As for the current team, they could put together a run if they stay healthy, stay together and keep their heads on straight. They're the most balanced and deepest team by quite a bit. I'll be surprised if they don't win this year and beyond.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yeah he was a very good on ball defender.

He just had a very uneven offensive game. He was a horrendous 3 pt shooter for most of his Celtics career (20-25%) and a bad free throw shooter (60-65%.). Teams would just not even guard him until he crossed the foul line because of his bad shooting. He was an outstanding finisher though and overall he was a good player; but when you look at how that Celtics team was built with Allen and Pierce on the wings and Garnett down low, I thought his game messed with their spacing too.

Ok I get you. Agree 100%

 

[Sect140]

The 86 team may have been the best single season team ever. If Walton stayed healthy in 87 they would’ve won again in 87.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The 86 team may have been the best single season team ever. If Walton stayed healthy in 87 they would’ve won again in 87.

I dunno...87 Cs were a banged up bunch. Parish had a bad ankle. Danny had a torn quad and Kevin had a broken foot.

 

[Penn State Patriot]

The 86 team may have been the best single season team ever. If Walton stayed healthy in 87 they would’ve won again in 87.

Folks underestimate how good the '87 Lakers were. Magic was MVP that year and was the league's best player from '86-'90. James Worthy was a perennial All-Star by that point. The Celtics were so fortunate they had a healthy Walton in '86, it would have been wishful thinking to expect that again.

 

[Sect140]

I dunno...87 Cs were a banged up bunch. Parish had a bad ankle. Danny had a torn quad and Kevin had a broken foot.

Kevin was the other injury I couldn’t remember when I typed my message. You’re right that they were really banged up but they still made it to the finals, that’s why I think with a healthy Walton they would’ve been able to.

 

[Sect140]

Folks underestimate how good the '87 Lakers were. Magic was MVP that year and was the league's best player from '86-'90. James Worthy was a perennial All-Star by that point. The Celtics were so fortunate they had a healthy Walton in '86, it would have been wishful thinking to expect that again.

The Lakers were a great team that decade no doubt about it. Without Walton we made it to the finals and lost to the Lakers in six games, you are correct the chances of Walton being healthy two straight seasons were slim to none.

Now as Robert Weathers mentioned the other injuries the Celtics we’re dealing with, especially the McHale injury also made it difficult, with those and Walton being out they still took that Lakers team six games.

In 86 the Celtic players were so disappointed when the Lakers lost to the Rockets in the Western finals.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Kevin was the other injury I couldn’t remember when I typed my message. You’re right that they were really banged up but they still made it to the finals, that’s why I think with a healthy Walton they would’ve been able to.

Entirely possible they could win in 7 but that LAL team was the best of the Magic era.

 

[borisman]

We would likely have more banners if Bird and McHale didn’t break down at certain points of seasons and careers. Not to mention the HUGE losses of Len Bias and Reggie Lewis. That could have been Jordan/Pippen level of greatness.
If one ever saw Bias one thing you noticed is he never had a fade away jumper. He never needed it.

 

[oldrover]

I forget about the loss of Harris… and especially Bias. Those were brutal, in every way imaginable. God rest their souls.