For Rebuild Year One - The OL Isn't That Bad

[Wozzy]

Oh well. Did we really GUARANTEE $575K of cap money to all the 35+ players we have who won't make the roster! What a silly argument!

500K in NFL dollars is chickenfeed... wtf are you talking about?

 

[Wozzy]

by all accounts from last summer, the attempt of Sow at Ot was a disaster. simply does not have the footwork in last years offense, never mind this years offense.

Add this to Rkarp's list of things that didn't happen.

 

[Wozzy]

Weird thing is that Onwenu is at 350 lbs which is quite large for a tackle. Expected him to slim down. For reference, Strange is at 310, Sow, Okafor, and Wallace all around 320.

And the Chargers drafted Alt to play him at RT. Talk about an embaressment of riches.

In college at one point Onwenu was playing at 370 pounds, he slimmed down prior to the draft to a reasonable 350... he's just a big strong guy.

The Chargers offensive line has taken year's of high draft picks to assemble and they'll just now have some semblance of a good line to put in front of Justin Herbert if everyone stays healthy. Not really an embarrassment of riches... more like about time. Harbaugh will finally put a great team around Herbert, who has been the best QB in the NFL on a bad team.

 

[mgteich]

500K in NFL dollars is chickenfeed... wtf are you talking about?

OK, when we have lot of cap money, costs don't matter.
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I suspect that Leverett was signed for $1,775,000 with $575K guaranteed this year because the staff thought that he would make the team. BTW, Mafi is guaranteed exactly zero for his 2024 services.

But, yes, of course, the team won't keep Leverett instead of Mafi (or Andrews) if he looks bad in camp and the pre-season.

My personal belief is that Leverett is more likely to start than he is to be cut.

Also, I would keep 10 OL's since 8 are active. One inactive OT and one inactive IOL makes sense to me. So, Mafi could sneak in as one of the three backups (Andrews, Robinson and Mafi) at least until Strange returns.
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Finally, you think that Leverett is mediocre, as if this should mean that we should cut him. Lots of players on the 53, especially on a non-playoff team are mediocre, or JAG's, the other label that folks use to denigrate a player. It is OK to have mediocre players (JAG's) on your team as well as studs, really it is.

For me, it is likely that we will have 2 positions on Offense that will have starters that are mediocre: LT and one of the OG positions. That's fine for an Offense that was worst in the NFL just a few months ago. Do you really think that the rest of the below .500 teams have only two mediocre starters of Offense. [I suppose that we have 3, until Maye is able to start].

Yes, MAYBE a playoff team or two has ZERO mediocre players starting for them. Somehow, I doubt that this is the case.

 

[Wozzy]

OK, when we have lot of cap money, costs don't matter.
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500K is minimum wage, saying he is guaranteed a roster spot because they paid him the lowest amount of money possible is as nonsensical as saying he was signed to replace a backup rookie guard from last season.

 

[mgteich]

500K is minimum wage, saying he is guaranteed a roster spot because they paid him the lowest amount of money possible is as nonsensical as saying he was signed to replace a backup rookie guard from last season.

Leverett will be paid $1,775,000 for his services this year, more than Mafi if he is cut (since Mafi get nothing if he is cut, and more than Mafi if he plays.
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I understand that this amount means nothing to many pats fans now that we have so much cap money.

My personal opinion is that Leverett is much more likely to make the 53 than is Mafi. And, yes, guaranteeing a backup mediocre player $575K is meaningful. If we cut him, he will sign somewhere else for whatever they pay, having pocketed the meaningless $575K. BTW, the $575K has nothing to do with minimum wage, since it is not his total compensation.

The open question is why we felt it necessary to sign Leverett if he is so weak a player. And why guarantee him $575K for not playing? After all, as you say, we drafted 3 guards last year (and ended up drafting another, in addition to signing Michael Jordan). In your mind, is it remotely possible that the team thought that an upgrade over our 2023 5th rounder was indicated? We did fine with Sow. Andrews seem to be safe because he is our backup center. Of course, both were drafted before Mafi.

 

[Wozzy]

I suspect that Leverett was signed for $1,775,000 with $575K guaranteed this year because the staff thought that he would make the team. BTW, Mafi is guaranteed exactly zero for his 2024 services.

But, yes, of course, the team won't keep Leverett instead of Mafi (or Andrews) if he looks bad in camp and the pre-season.

My personal belief is that Leverett is more likely to start than he is to be cut.

Also, I would keep 10 OL's since 8 are active. One inactive OT and one inactive IOL makes sense to me. So, Mafi could sneak in as one of the three backups (Andrews, Robinson and Mafi) at least until Strange returns.
=========
Finally, you think that Leverett is mediocre, as if this should mean that we should cut him. Lots of players on the 53, especially on a non-playoff team are mediocre, or JAG's, the other label that folks use to denigrate a player. It is OK to have mediocre players (JAG's) on your team as well as studs, really it is.

For me, it is likely that we will have 2 positions on Offense that will have starters that are mediocre: LT and one of the OG positions. That's fine for an Offense that was worst in the NFL just a few months ago. Do you really think that the rest of the below .500 teams have only two mediocre starters of Offense. [I suppose that we have 3, until Maye is able to start].

Yes, MAYBE a playoff team or two has ZERO mediocre players starting for them. Somehow, I doubt that this is the case.

You added a lot of text to this post after the fact so let me expound...

Leverett was an UDFA linemen who spent a large portion of his four year career in Tampa on the practice squad and was called into duty due to injuries to starters. Draft status doesn't matter much once you enter the league, but when you couple that with the fact he's not a very good athlete it doesn't add up to much.

This also wasn't one of the league's great lines... they could have used a good starter. If Leverett was a good starter, he would have a job in Tampa, not be signing a vet minimum show me deal in New England.

You suggesting Mafi, who is still on his cheap, cost controlled rookie deal, is making less money than a four year vet free agent is a ridiculous comparison. If Leverett were good, he would be earning his first big contract in the NFL this season, not signing a one year deal and barely making more than a 5th round rookie from a year ago.

Finally... we can't call rookie or second year or even third year players "mediocre" until we see how they show up to camp, if they worked on their weaknesses, if they got stronger this offseason, if they practiced their craft. It's presumptuous, which I why I want to see how it shakes out in camp and preseason. Caeden Wallace could be a stud for all we know, or their UDFA OT Zuri Henry could surprise everyone here, he has some tools to work with and has pretty good strength. We'll see... but every team has question marks including the Dolphins and Bills.

 

[mgteich]

You added a lot of text to this post after the fact so let me expound...

Leverett was an UDFA linemen who spent a large portion of his four year career in Tampa on the practice squad and was called into duty due to injuries to starters. Draft status doesn't matter much once you enter the league but when you couple that with the fact he's not a very good athlete it doesn't add up to much.

This also wasn't one of the league's great lines... they could have used a good starter. If Leverett was a good starter, he would have a job in Tampa, not be signing a vet minimum show me deal in New England.

You suggesting Mafi, who is still on his cheap cost controlled rookie deal, is making less money than a four year vet free agent is a ridiculous comparison. If Leverett were good, he would be earning his first big contract in the NFL this season, not signing a one year deal and barely making more than a 5th round rookie from a year ago.

Finally... we can't call rookie or second year or even third year players "mediocre" until we see how they show up to camp, if they worked on their weaknesses, if they got stronger this offseason, if they practiced their craft. It's presumptuous, which I why I want to see how it shakes out in camp and preseason. Caeden Wallace could be a stud for all we know, or their UDFA OT Zuri Henry could surprise everyone here, he has some tools to work with and has pretty good strength. We'll see... but every team has question marks including the Dolphins and Bills.

Ok, the team chose to sign Michael Jordan and Leverett when they had drafted 3 guards in 2023 and thought it necessary to draft another in 2024. BTW, when the team signs players as camp fodder they don't give $575K guarantees.

You think that the team did this even though they were fine with Mafi. OK, believe as you will. BTW, how much do you think Jordan is guaranteed for his 2024 play? The same as Mafi, exactly zero.

To be clear, I wouldn't be signing long-term leases if I were Mafi. Signing Jordan and Leverett sends a message. Drafting Robinson in the 4th sends a major message.

But, as I said, I would keep Mafi as the 10th OL until Strange returns. However, the team will more likely only keep the usual two IOL backups on the 53-man roster.

 

[Wozzy]

Ok, the team chose to sign Michael Jordan and Leverett when they had drafted 3 guards in 2023 and thought it necessary to draft another in 2024. BTW, when the team signs players as camp fodder they don't give $575K guarantees.

Jake Andrews was drafted to play center, Sow was drafted to play tackle… they drafted one guard in Mafi.

You keep repeating 500K like it’s a lot of money in NFL terms… it’s not, it’s the vet minimum.

You think that the team did this even though they were fine with Mafi. OK, believe as you will. BTW, how much do you think Jordan is guaranteed for his 2024 play? The same as Mafi, exactly zero.

Teams can’t assume anything about a rookie player in year two, he could go either way. But you saying after one season Mafi sucks and about to be replaced by Leverett is laughable. The guy is entering year five and hasn’t played well at all. Despite being healthy he was only active for three games, didn’t make a single start or play a single snap last season.

To be clear, I wouldn't be signing long-term leases if I were Mafi. Signing Jordan and Leverett sends a message. Drafting Robinson in the 4th sends a major message.

They signed Leverett to a one year deal for the league minimum. They signed Jordan to a futures deal for zero guaranteed dollars. These are jags, warm bodies for camp to run the practice squad. If either is starting the Pats offensive line isn’t good.

Mafi has three more years left on his contract, they have more invested in him than both of those ^ players combined including dead cap and draft pick.

But, as I said, I would keep Mafi as the 10th OL until Strange returns. However, the team will more likely only keep the usual two IOL backups on the 53-man roster.

Let’s see who gets named starter after preseason and revisit this.

 

[captain stone]

In the 6 games the pats had Sow at RG, Onwenu at RT & Stevenson playing they averaged 123 rushing YPG & 4.6 YPC. Sow was arguably the best rookie guard last season.

The pats have three good OL starters. That's more than a lot of teams. I agree that the OL is an underrated unit. LT will be a problem and limit their upside in pass blocking obviously. Depending on the play of Wallace the pats will be drafting a LT or WR in the top 10 next year IMO.

Glad to see that local dude & NEP legacy Mo Hurst appears to have found a home in Cleveland after living on & off the Faiduhs' & 49ers' rosters the previous 4 years.

Our offensive Line, however, is NOT an underrated unit: Onwenu is solid, but Andrews is more valuable to us than he would be to any other team in the entire league, and did the Sow take any snaps at LG last season? The rest are either unknowns or straight trash homey.

 

[captain stone]

Who’s the third? Cole Strange, probably. Well, he still has a long recovery. Right now he has one muscular leg and the other one is scrawny and still gimpy. Even an average nfl dt could bull rush him at will for up to the next six months.

I suspect Sidy Sow will prove even better at LG. Bigger mass with excellent athleticism almost on par with the freakish scores of Strange.

Onwenu, Andrews (for us anyway) & Sow (probably).

 

[captain stone]

Mafi = less than mediocre

So, you disagree with signing Leverett, and would prefer to have Mafi starting. OK, we disagree.

There were quite a few OGs available who were/are better than Leverett. I literally had never heard of the dude until he signed here.

 

[captain stone]

I suppose that, as Wallace, Anderson could be a starting LG. I don't see Anderson coming near the right side of the ball.

Neither do I. The dude's strictly a Left-side lineman.

 

[captain stone]

Anderson has experience all over the line, some guys can play both sides well.

Mister Anderson's not one of them, however.

 

[captain stone]

Problem with your logic is that Onwenu wants to play RT and not Guard.

Now that he's been Paid, it might not matter quite as much to him...

 

[mgteich]

Jake Andrews was drafted to play center, Sow was drafted to play tackle… they drafted one guard in Mafi.

You keep repeating 500K like it’s a lot of money in NFL terms… it’s not, it’s the vet minimum.

Teams can’t assume anything about a rookie player in year two, he could go either way. But you saying after one season Mafi sucks and about to be replaced by Leverett is laughable. The guy is entering year five and hasn’t played well at all. Despite being healthy he was only active for three games, didn’t make a single start or play a single snap last season.

They signed Leverett to a one year deal for the league minimum. They signed Jordan to a futures deal for zero guaranteed dollars. These are jags, warm bodies for camp to run the practice squad. If either is starting the Pats offensive line isn’t good.

Mafi has three more years left on his contract, they have more invested in him than both of those ^ players combined including dead cap and draft pick.

Let’s see who gets named starter after preseason and revisit this.

Leverett will make over $1.7M. That is NOT vet minimum.

Nick Leverett Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Nick Leverett contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

 

[mgteich]

Glad to see that local dude & NEP legacy Mo Hurst appears to have found a home in Cleveland after living on & off the Faiduhs' & 49ers' rosters the previous 4 years.

Our offensive Line, however, is NOT an underrated unit: Onwenu is solid, but Andrews is more valuable to us than he would be to any other team in the entire league, and did the Sow take any snaps at LG last season? The rest are either unknowns or straight trash homey.

Ok, we have 3 solid starters.

Whether we are underrated depend on who you talk to. We have 2 holes on the OL. That isn't great.

Our likely starters at the weak positions are both considerably below average: Okorafor and Leverett.
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Of course, others believe that we have an experienced 4th starter in Mafi, having done so well last year.

And then, we have only one hole with three possible starters: Okorafor, Anderson and Wallace. If Mafi were indeed a solid starter, I might think that the OL is underrated. We would have only one position with a below average starter, LT. This would also be the case if Strange were healthy.

 

[Wozzy]

Mister Anderson's not one of them, however.

Anderson played both right and left tackle for the Broncos... he can play either side, and if he can play tackle he can play guard.

 

[Wozzy]

Leverett will make over $1.7M. That is NOT vet minimum.

Nick Leverett Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Nick Leverett contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

That's only if he makes the team buddy, he is only guaranteed 575K... and that's peanuts.

 

[Wozzy]

Of course, others believe that we have an experienced 4th starter in Mafi, having done so well last year.

Anyone who goes back and reads this thread knows this ^ is a lie.