Nine Weak Positions On A Non-playoff Team - Not Bad

[mgteich]

I see us with these weak positions, many fewer than one would expect from a team likely to finish 4th in their division and in the bottom ten of the league. Note that some of these are the bottom player of a position group (TE3, RB3 and S4). Also, I consider nickel back as a separate position and in solid shape with Jon Jones and Marcus Jones (and even Wade if we choose to keep him).

WEAK POSITIONS
LT
LG
WR1
RB3
TE3
CB2
CB3
S4
K

IMO, we should be considering addressing some of these in free agency, now or anytime through Week 2, including RB, CB and S.

 

[signbabybrady]

I don't see how you can say CB 2 and 3. If I concede CB 2 then nickel corner is being filled by competing Joneseses but realistically they fill both CB 2 & 3.

I don't think WR is deeper than DB nor does it have a top end talent like Gonzo. It's a way bigger concern than DB.

If neither Joneseses relieves concern at CB 2 or 3 then I would think we have to call WR1 and WR3-5 as weak too with only WR2 being confidently filled by Pop. I have way more confidence in Jonathan to be a top Corner than Bourne or KJ to be a healthy top WR. And based on Marcus' rookie year he has me way more excited than either rookie WR does yet. I would put Pop and Marcus in similar places probably not number one at their positions but confident they will handle a big role. And you have to be more confident in Jonathan than any of KJ, Bourne, or the rookie WRs.

Edit: I reread and realized you are not including nickel corner so that would change my response slightly but I am still way more confident in our DB depth than WR that I won't change what I wrote.

 

[Wozzy]

I see us with these weak positions, many fewer than one would expect from a team likely to finish 4th in their division and in the bottom ten of the league. Note that some of these are the bottom player of a position group (TE3, RB3 and S4). Also, I consider nickel back as a separate position and in solid shape with Jon Jones and Marcus Jones (and even Wade if we choose to keep him).

WEAK POSITIONS
LT
LG
WR1
RB3
TE3
CB2
CB3
S4
K

IMO, we should be considering addressing some of these in free agency, now or anytime through Week 2, including RB, CB and S.

I want to see how training camp and preseason shakeout before I predict their record. The division has seemingly only gotten weaker not better.

I agree with the offensive line.

Not sure what a WR1 is, nobody can definitively tell me and football is about matchups... as long as you can create matchup problems it doesn't matter what label you slap on a receiver. They have some youth and inexperience with the two rookies and Thornton... having untested talent is better than not having it at all.

Assuming health and he didn't spend the entire offseason eating doughnuts Kevin Harris looks like a pretty good RB3. He ran and caught the ball well behind a pretty poor offensive line and on a team that couldn't pass the ball after Rhamondre got hurt.

TE3 or a typical blocking TE is weak, they don't really have one and the free agent TE's they brought in behind the Henry and Hooper suck.

CB2 is Marco Wilson. The remainder of the CB's are untested but have talent... they can figure it out if they can develop the rookies.

If we're worrying about the 4th safety we're concerned about special teams. With Duggar, Peppers, Mapu and Schooler they look pretty good there.

Joe Slye provides at least a decent Kicker who can potentially improve. Right now he's the Jacoby Brissett of kickers, not amazing but pretty good.

 

[PatsFan2]

I see us with these weak positions, many fewer than one would expect from a team likely to finish 4th in their division and in the bottom ten of the league. Note that some of these are the bottom player of a position group (TE3, RB3 and S4). Also, I consider nickel back as a separate position and in solid shape with Jon Jones and Marcus Jones (and even Wade if we choose to keep him).

WEAK POSITIONS
LT
LG
WR1
RB3
TE3
CB2
CB3
S4
K

IMO, we should be considering addressing some of these in free agency, now or anytime through Week 2, including RB, CB and S.

You love to make things up we have a potential Elite CB in Gonzo Teams can get by with one CB Stud and use the Safety to help CB 2 Problem solved. The Jones's are Excellent #3 CB's. We haven't had a#1 WR since Moss we always have excellent #2's hopefully Baker and Polk can morph into such.

 

[mgteich]

I don't see how you can say CB 2 and 3. If I concede CB 2 then nickel corner is being filled by competing Joneseses but realistically they fill both CB 2 & 3.

I don't think WR is deeper than DB nor does it have a top end talent like Gonzo. It's a way bigger concern than DB.

If neither Joneseses relieves concern at CB 2 or 3 then I would think we have to call WR1 and WR3-5 as weak too with only WR2 being confidently filled by Pop. I have way more confidence in Jonathan to be a top Corner than Bourne or KJ to be a healthy top WR. And based on Marcus' rookie year he has me way more excited than either rookie WR does yet. I would put Pop and Marcus in similar places probably not number one at their positions but confident they will handle a big role. And you have to be more confident in Jonathan than any of KJ, Bourne, or the rookie WRs.

Edit: I reread and realized you are not including nickel corner so that would change my response slightly but I am still way more confident in our DB depth than WR that I won't change what I wrote.

WR1 is a very weak position.
--------------------------------
I don't have issues with WR depth with Bourne, Douglas, Osborne, Polk and Baker (not counting Shuster, Thornton and Reagor). If we were to sign or trade for a WR1, then I think that we have sufficient depth, actually very good depth.

Nickel Corner
-----------------
We are more than fine at nickel with Jones, Jones and even Wade.

Outside Corner
#1 is Gonzo
And then we have several players competing for the other 2-3 roster spots. Call it depth if you like. I think that having 2 of the following on the team can be considered a weakness as compared with other positions: Wilson, Austin, Bolden, Wade, Dial, Hearn.

Who are your #2 and #3 who aren't weak at their positions as compared to our DL, LB's and safeties?
=================
Let's be clear. I'm OK with our corners as a whole. I just believe that the #2 and #3 outside corners aren't as good as other players on the team at their positions. I'd rather have a Gilmore opposite Gonzo, with the above list competing for one or two backup outside corner roster spots.
============
MARCUS JONES
I am a bit less excited about Marcus than you are. However, he is one of the best punt returners in the NFL and a fine nickel back. And, yes, he can play outside if necessary. Perhaps, Marcus is better than all but one of the above and therefore an OK #3 outside corner. However, i tend to think of Marcus as a nickel back.

 

[mgteich]

I want to see how training camp and preseason shakeout before I predict their record. The division has seemingly only gotten weaker not better.

I agree with the offensive line.

Not sure what a WR1 is, nobody can definitively tell me and football is about matchups... as long as you can create matchup problems it doesn't matter what label you slap on a receiver. They have some youth and inexperience with the two rookies and Thornton... having untested talent is better than not having it at all.

Assuming health and he didn't spend the entire offseason eating doughnuts Kevin Harris looks like a pretty good RB3. He ran and caught the ball well behind a pretty poor offensive line and on a team that couldn't pass the ball after Rhamondre got hurt.

TE3 or a typical blocking TE is weak, they don't really have one and the free agent TE's they brought in behind the Henry and Hooper suck.

CB2 is Marco Wilson. The remainder of the CB's are untested but have talent... they can figure it out if they can develop the rookies.

If we're worrying about the 4th safety we're concerned about special teams. With Duggar, Peppers, Mapu and Schooler they look pretty good there.

Joe Slye provides at least a decent Kicker who can potentially improve. Right now he's the Jacoby Brissett of kickers, not amazing but pretty good.

I hope that you are right regarding Wilson.

As far as #4 safety, I think that we like to have 3 safeties active, especially with Dugger often playing close to the LOS. We have many situations where we like to have 3 safeties on the field. SO, I would like to have an additional 4th safety that can play if Peppers, Dugger or Hawkins is injured. And, yes, I prefer that Mapu play more LB.

 

[mgteich]

Assuming health and he didn't spend the entire offseason eating doughnuts Kevin Harris looks like a pretty good RB3. He ran and caught the ball well behind a pretty poor offensive line and on a team that couldn't pass the ball after Rhamondre got hurt.

117 career yards doesn't excite me.

Are you sure that there aren't any free agents (now or in the time before Game 1) that you would prefer being active for us each week instead of Harris?

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I see us with these weak positions, many fewer than one would expect from a team likely to finish 4th in their division and in the bottom ten of the league. Note that some of these are the bottom player of a position group (TE3, RB3 and S4). Also, I consider nickel back as a separate position and in solid shape with Jon Jones and Marcus Jones (and even Wade if we choose to keep him).

WEAK POSITIONS
LT
LG
WR1year
RB3
TE3
CB2
CB3
S4
K

IMO, we should be considering addressing some of these in free agency, now or anytime through Week 2, including RB, CB and S.

I agree with the posters who have more concerns about WR than CB. I would argue that with Brissett as the starter we are weak at QB. While he is a good fit for the team and is an improvement over last year, he is still a below average starting QB. The team is stocked with potential at the position so there is a plan to address that weakness. This year is all about making the QB position a strength going forward.

 

[signbabybrady]

WR1 is a very weak position.
--------------------------------
I don't have issues with WR depth with Bourne, Douglas, Osborne, Polk and Baker (not counting Shuster, Thornton and Reagor). If we were to sign or trade for a WR1, then I think that we have sufficient depth, actually very good depth.

Nickel Corner
-----------------
We are more than fine at nickel with Jones, Jones and even Wade.

Outside Corner
#1 is Gonzo
And then we have several players competing for the other 2-3 roster spots. Call it depth if you like. I think that having 2 of the following on the team can be considered a weakness as compared with other positions: Wilson, Austin, Bolden, Wade, Dial, Hearn.

Who are your #2 and #3 who aren't weak at their positions as compared to our DL, LB's and safeties?
=================
Let's be clear. I'm OK with our corners as a whole. I just believe that the #2 and #3 outside corners aren't as good as other players on the team at their positions. I'd rather have a Gilmore opposite Gonzo, with the above list competing for one or two backup outside corner roster spots.
============
MARCUS JONES
I am a bit less excited about Marcus than you are. However, he is one of the best punt returners in the NFL and a fine nickel back. And, yes, he can play outside if necessary. Perhaps, Marcus is better than all but one of the above and therefore an OK #3 outside corner. However, i tend to think of Marcus as a nickel back.

I think you and a lot on this board are making to big of a distinction between outside corners and nickel corners. My opinion is you need at least one bigger physical corner like Gonzo to deal with bigger receivers and one smaller quicker corner to deal with smaller quicker receivers. In an ideal world you'd have a back up for each our best backup corner is more suited for the slot/smaller quicker receivers and I think that's where people get concerned. But I'm not that worried about size because of Gonzo and because our safety group is pretty physical too so you can use them to pitch when you run into teams with multiple big physical WRs.

I think when we compare WR to CB on this team I think both have a decent amount of depth but only corner as a true stud in Gonzo. I think Jonathan Jones as CB2 is as good if not better at his position than any WR we have. Then I think Marcus has as much if not more upside than either rookie WRs we have.

I don't even really think it's close our CB position is one of the better CB groups in the league. Where as the WR group has a few decent WR 2s and a couple of intriguing rookies but nothing as good as Gonzo or Jonathan Jones.

 

[hornetfb85]

LT: Charles Leno…



LG: Go with what you got

WR: push the guys we have, attack in next years free agency

RB3: Josh Kelley…


TE3: Go with what you have/wait for camp cuts

CB: I like Austin and seeing what Wilson has now that he’s not the #1 guy. Can see a JC Jackson reunion but…

 

[Triumph]

31st ranked offense is still the 31st ranked offense.

Brisset has never had a winning season.

 

[PatsFan2]

31st ranked offense is still the 31st ranked offense.

Brisset has never had a winning season.

You wouldn't know that listening to some of his supporters.

 

[Water Boy]

QB?

 

[Wozzy]

I hope that you are right regarding Wilson.

As far as #4 safety, I think that we like to have 3 safeties active, especially with Dugger often playing close to the LOS. We have many situations where we like to have 3 safeties on the field. SO, I would like to have an additional 4th safety that can play if Peppers, Dugger or Hawkins is injured. And, yes, I prefer that Mapu play more LB.

If Mapu transitions to WLB the need for the third SS becomes less necessary. Schooler is also an exceptional athlete and might provide some defensive snaps along with being a special teams ace.

 

[mgteich]

I don't even really think it's close our CB position is one of the better CB groups in the league. Where as the WR group has a few decent WR 2s and a couple of intriguing rookies but nothing as good as Gonzo or Jonathan Jones.

I don't understand your analysis. Yes, our current group of CB's are better than our current group of WR's. That was not MY question.

WIDE RECEIVER
I agree that we NEED a top #1 WR. OK, let's solve that and trade for a #1. NOW, compare the needs at WR and CB. I think that we are fine at WR, with lots of NFL quality 2's and 3's.

CORNER
After we solve our need for #1 WR, let us look at outside CB vs WR. You seem to think that Wilson, Austin, Bolden, Hearn and Marcus Jones are better outside corners than the WR's are WR (Douglas, Polk, Bourne, Baker and Osborne).

AFTER solving the #1 WR need, my personal opinion is that WR is a much lower need/weakness that outside corner after Gonzo.

BOTTOM LINE
Ignore the #1 WR (position not filled) and the #! outside CB position. I think that outside CB #2 and #3 are weaknesses. I don't think that WR #2 and #3 are weaknesses.

And, for me, making believe that there is no such position as nickel back doesn't float my boat. Even if Jon Jones is our #2 CB, I would still have a weakness at two of #3 CB, #4 CB or #5 CB (with Marcus Jones at one of those three positions.

So, Gonzo, Jones and Jones are NOT weaknesses. We carry 5-6 corners. I think that rest are question marks that could very well work out to be fine contributors: Wilson, Austin, Bolden.

 

[XLIX]

Just out of curiosity, how do you not consider QB a "weak" position? It is, at the very best, a complete unknown.... but even if Maye develops into a talented starter, I wouldn't expect much in year 1.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Weak positions or unproven:

QB
The entire OL
RB
WR
MLB
The entire secondary
K

 

[Hyped]

I think #2 and #3 corner are far better than you think @mgteich.

I expect Jon Jones to play outside this year and Marcus to man the nickel.

Question is who will win the #3 CB job.....and I like our mix of CBs coupled with safeties on the back end.

 

[signbabybrady]

I don't understand your analysis. Yes, our current group of CB's are better than our current group of WR's. That was not MY question.

WIDE RECEIVER
I agree that we NEED a top #1 WR. OK, let's solve that and trade for a #1. NOW, compare the needs at WR and CB. I think that we are fine at WR, with lots of NFL quality 2's and 3's.

CORNER
After we solve our need for #1 WR, let us look at outside CB vs WR. You seem to think that Wilson, Austin, Bolden, Hearn and Marcus Jones are better outside corners than the WR's are WR (Douglas, Polk, Bourne, Baker and Osborne).

AFTER solving the #1 WR need, my personal opinion is that WR is a much lower need/weakness that outside corner after Gonzo.

BOTTOM LINE
Ignore the #1 WR (position not filled) and the #! outside CB position. I think that outside CB #2 and #3 are weaknesses. I don't think that WR #2 and #3 are weaknesses.

And, for me, making believe that there is no such position as nickel back doesn't float my boat. Even if Jon Jones is our #2 CB, I would still have a weakness at two of #3 CB, #4 CB or #5 CB (with Marcus Jones at one of those three positions.

So, Gonzo, Jones and Jones are NOT weaknesses. We carry 5-6 corners. I think that rest are question marks that could very well work out to be fine contributors: Wilson, Austin, Bolden.

As simply as I can put it: our top 3 corners are actually pretty legit Jonathan has been CB1 on our team for a few years and Gonzo could be a top ten corner in the NFL. And Marcus is as good if not a better prospect than Polk or Baker.

At WR we have several WR2s or 3s and two young guys in Baker and Polk. IMO the two positions aren't even close to equal corner is in far better shape right now.

 

[stinkypete]

I'm fine letting the kids fight it out at both positions. The 2025 free agent class is full of WR1 and CB2 types.