The Krafts are relentless in their assault on Belichick's coaching.

[TheRainMaker]

One of two things are happening:

1. Pats are trying to salvage Mac's trade value.
2. They are keeping Mac.

After watching the first two episodes it's clear Bill was on thin ice with Kraft in 2001 and then again after Bill refused to pay Brady. As Kraft mentioned in the episode, "he better make it work". He didn't and that's why Kraft pulled the plug.

 

[Real fan 02]

Every time someone defends Bill in the slightest you have to make snide remarks . Bill is not my 'hero' as you put it. But then neither is Tom my hero like he is yours. I don't intend to speak ill of a coach that helped us win 6 Sb;s even though you probably think it was entirely Brady that did that and I think it was them together that did that. I stand by what I think and feel and right now I have zero respect for the ownership of this franchise and the way they have spoken about Bill since his departure . They have no class whatsoever and it only makes them look bad !!!!

Brady made Bill a better coach, Bill made Brady a better player. Both admitted as such. As great as Bill was and deservedly so. We have to understand the direction of the team particularly offensively, losing, coaching decisions and a 4-13 season Is ultimately what lead to a mutual parting. Doesn't take away from what Bill meant to the organization.

 

[upstater1]

Very confused by what you're saying.

You said:

Watching the Dynasty last night, episode 3, Kraft talked about the great accomplishment of making the Super Bowl FINALLY in '01. I was like, um, you made it in '96.
Later... He says, "I dreamed of going to the Super Bowl way before we owned the team."
What's he dreaming of? He was there 5 years ago. It was no longer a dream

Your statement above definitely sounds like you're thinking 2002 version of Kraft said that "dream" line, but it was ~2023 version who said the dream line, so he wasn't "there 5 years ago [in 2018]."

As a reminder of what I said:

Putting words in his mouth again. The statement was made by present RKK (when the film was made), not in 2002. The next shot is a dirt explosion in 1971 of when Foxboro stadium was being built, so it was a nice segue to the past of how he planned to acquire the team.

2002 version (11:52 in the show) actually did say, "I feel very fortunate our family is back in the Super Bowl."

The line was a segway [sic] immediately to 1971 close to the beginning of when Kraft planned to buy the team - clear as day what the filmmakers were doing there. Not sure why this is so difficult to understand.

First, this isn't that big a deal. Second, he said "I dreamed of going..." which lead me to believe it was in reference to 2002. Why? Because they were discussing the 2002 Super Bowl.

 

[upstater1]

One of two things are happening:

1. Pats are trying to salvage Mac's trade value.
2. They are keeping Mac.

After watching the first two episodes it's clear Bill was on thin ice with Kraft in 2001 and then again after Bill refused to pay Brady. As Kraft mentioned in the episode, "he better make it work". He didn't and that's why Kraft pulled the plug.

Then Kraft's a colossal idiot when it comes to football. The Dynasty happened despite this guy.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Oops - wrong thread!

Just finished 3 and 4. Just found out an old friend was very very involved in the making of this - As in the name pops up within the 1st 30 seconds of the credits, so I'm now officially biased - take my comments with a grain of salt. So far I think this has been very well done, saying this as someone whose Super Bowl DVDs have been worn out from all the playtime.

That being said, when this was called The Dynasty, my immediate thought was Linda Evans and Joanne Collins, and watching the drama / soap opera with my Mom, so I wasn't expecting a documentary on the winning, I was expecting Dominique punching Alexis, and drama and backstabbing and such. Random notes and maybe spoilers:

-Kraft after the Parcells debacle: "I promised myself in the future, I would find a coach that truly put the team first."
-The use of Verdi's Dies Irae (which I've sung a few times as part of a choir) was an excellent and appropriate choice.
-Bledsoe's got a great radio voice.
-U2's Edge talking about Brady vs Bledsoe was hilarious.
-Bruschi on Drew's support despite the situation: "That's where I think the Patriot Way started."
-Mike Martz, Strahan (disses both TB12 and Eli), and Parcells - Nice cameos.
- I was worried by earlier posts about all the focus on Spygate and the 2007 season, but as painful as it was to watch, it seemed like it was very necessary (since a vast majority of people watching this won't be Patriots fans) and will probably set up future strife.
- Forgot that the "Pats filmed the Rams walkthrough" happened in the beginning of that notorious SB.

 

[upstater1]

Agreed, watching episode 4 of the documentary.. Kraft took a lot of heat for Bill with spy gate for example.

You got it reversed.

Bill took the heat.

The Patriots should have pressed the issue. They were in the right.

 

[signbabybrady]

OP rearranges things in his head to fit his timelines and agendas.

This documentary isn't making it easy it's blending present commentary with past commentary which I think is fine and obviously they have to do that. But they aren't staying linear while telling the story they keep bouncing back to stuff from the 90s to try and make points.

Episode one should have been about Bob buying the team, Parcels rift, and whatever key 90s players like Drew they wanted to highlight and then they wouldn't have to do so much back and forth they would have already set it up.

 

[Jim Beankie]

First, this isn't that big a deal. Second, he said "I dreamed of going..." which lead me to believe it was in reference to 2002. Why? Because they were discussing the 2002 Super Bowl.

No it's not, but I've been with in laws all week, and I just watched one of the most painful memories of my sports fan life, so I'm naturally amped up, so we can keep going back and forth if you'd like. Going back to my original retort: You're putting words in his mouth. His next line (a few seconds) after the "dreamed" line was "In 1971, when they built the new stadium in Foxborough, I decided I was gonna get season tickets," and they don't talk about 2002 for another 7 or 8 minutes.

 

[upstater1]

No it's not, but I've been with in laws all week, and I just watched one of the most painful memories of my sports fan life, so I'm naturally amped up, so we can keep going back and forth if you'd like. Going back to my original retort: You're putting words in his mouth. His next line (a few seconds) after the "dreamed" line was "In 1971, when they built the new stadium in Foxborough, I decided I was gonna get season tickets," and they don't talk about 2002 for another 7 or 8 minutes.

Wrong. He makes the dream quote DIRECTLY after the clip shows them advancing to the '02 Super Bowl./ Again, this is a stupid conversation.

 

[upstater1]

The directors of the Dynasty did a really bad job on Spygate.

They did NOT show the Goodell interview with Costas, in which Costas caught him out.

They also didn't show the whole genesis of the controversy and of the rule (the Jets were caught spying on the Patriots in 2006).

These things vindicated Belichick and it became clear this was a hit job by Goodell. How in the world is this show making it seem to some posters that Kraft ran interference for Belichick when it was plainly evident that Kraft turtled?

At this point, it's evident that Kraft's involvement in this whole Dynasty show is coloring the script.

 

[Real fan 02]

You got it reversed.

Bill took the heat.

The Patriots should have pressed the issue. They were in the right.

Kraft used his influence to minimize the damage, the documentary touched on it.. Kraft asked how much would the signs help.. Bill said a 1... agreed they should have pressed the issue.

 

[signbabybrady]

No it's not, but I've been with in laws all week, and I just watched one of the most painful memories of my sports fan life, so I'm naturally amped up, so we can keep going back and forth if you'd like. Going back to my original retort: You're putting words in his mouth. His next line (a few seconds) after the "dreamed" line was "In 1971, when they built the new stadium in Foxborough, I decided I was gonna get season tickets," and they don't talk about 2002 for another 7 or 8 minutes.

This thing should of come with a disclaimer warning. I mean it's equally as obvious that cigarettes are bad but I still lit up anyway and watched 18-1 without thinking I might not fall asleep easy after.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Wrong. He makes the dream quote DIRECTLY after the clip shows them advancing to the '02 Super Bowl./ Again, this is a stupid conversation.

We have no idea when he said it. It could be from a completely different part of the interview, but the filmmakers decided that was an awesome line to move back to his beginnings with the Patriots - clear as day - maybe even clearer than that. Here's the full line: "I understand how the fans felt 'cause I was one of them. I'd dreamt of going to the Super Bowl way before we owned the team." You are putting words in his mouth by saying he said that he had this "great accomplishment of making the Super Bowl FINALLY in '01." Nowhere in any of his lines he expresses that sentiment - that the Rams SB was his first.

 

[upstater1]

Kraft used his influence to minimize the damage, the documentary touched on it.. Kraft asked how much would the signs help.. Bill said a 1... agreed they should have pressed the issue.

Kraft wanted to ingratiate himself with the other owners.

This is why the Patriots took a huge hit.

He had an absolute and natural defense for the Patriots and elected not to use it.

Go on the record, talk about 2006, talk about the rule. He did none of this.

The only reporter with a shred of ethics and logic was Bob Costas, certainly not Jackie McMullan or Armen Keteyian.

Ernie Adams is interesting because he knows where all the bones are buried but he also knows that as soon as he (or Belichick for that matter) reveal things, then not only is Belichick finished but so are his sons.

NOTE: Brian Flores didn't get a single interview this year, not even to fulfill the Rooney rule.

That's what would happen.

 

[upstater1]

We have no idea when he said it. It could be from a completely different part of the interview, but the filmmakers decided that was an awesome line to move back to his beginnings with the Patriots - clear as day - maybe even clearer than that. Here's the full line: "I understand how the fans felt 'cause I was one of them. I'd dreamt of going to the Super Bowl way before we owned the team." You are putting words in his mouth by saying he said that he had this "great accomplishment of making the Super Bowl FINALLY in '01." Nowhere in any of his lines he expresses that sentiment - that the Rams SB was his first.

You honestly think this might not have been about the Rams Super Bowl?

If it's not, this whole thing is badly constructed. You don't do that in a documentary.

 

[203Pat]

This documentary isn't making it easy it's blending present commentary with past commentary which I think is fine and obviously they have to do that. But they aren't staying linear while telling the story they keep bouncing back to stuff from the 90s to try and make points.

Episode one should have been about Bob buying the team, Parcels rift, and whatever key 90s players like Drew they wanted to highlight and then they wouldn't have to do so much back and forth they would have already set it up.

I don't know if it is a modern documentary making thing but I will admit I don't love the constant timeline jumping. The Jordan doc did it quite a bit but at least it put a hard stop with a year and a little scroll back on an actual animated timeline.

 

[Real fan 02]

Kraft wanted to ingratiate himself with the other owners.

This is why the Patriots took a huge hit.

He had an absolute and natural defense for the Patriots and elected not to use it.

Go on the record, talk about 2006, talk about the rule. He did none of this.

The only reporter with a shred of ethics and logic was Bob Costas, certainly not Jackie McMullan or Armen Keteyian.

Ernie Adams is interesting because he knows where all the bones are buried but he also knows that as soon as he (or Belichick for that matter) reveal things, then not only is Belichick finished but so are his sons.

NOTE: Brian Flores didn't get a single interview this year, not even to fulfill the Rooney rule.

That's what would happen.

Agreed. Curran touched on this. Ownership cleared Mayo's contract with the league office's as it included a succession clause. Mcdaniels had one in his contract at one point when he ditched indy to remain. Bill knew mayo was his successor. The acceleration process was sped up due to the way the team was loosing past few seasons.. So with a succession clause in a contract the team Ownership doesn't have to interview, and the rooney rule never came into play becuase Mayo's the successor.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I don't know if it is a modern documentary making thing but I will admit I don't love the constant timeline jumping. The Jordan doc did it quite a bit but at least it put a hard stop with a year and a little scroll back on an actual animated timeline.

Yeah it seems like a modern thing. The first I've seen it was the first Deadpool movie. Lots of movies have copied that format. I'm not a fan of the time traveling. Just go in order.

 

[Real fan 02]

Yeah it seems like a modern thing. The first I've seen it was the first Deadpool movie. Lots of movies have copied that format. I'm not a fan of the time traveling. Just go in order.

Agreed, I'm really interested to see the latter parts of the documentary say like 2014 and on.. as we had a 9 year drought of championships in between 05 and 14..

 

[TheRainMaker]

Then Kraft's a colossal idiot when it comes to football. The Dynasty happened despite this guy.

It wouldn't have happened had he stepped in when Bledsoe wanted him to. Kraft didn't want to handcuff Bill which would've set a bad example for the team.

It came full circle with Brady 19 years later when Bill didn't want to pay him. Had Brady just retired and not won another Super Bowl, Bill is probably still here.