Patriots new OC - Alex Van Pelt

[festy1986]

I tamped down my expectations in 2020. 4-13 was horrible. But I was prepared for 6-11. When you don't hit on your QB, you can expect a lot of 6-11. No matter who the coach is.

So how much losing is acceptable to you before we move on from "patriot fans are spoiled brats" to "Patriots don't know what they're doing?"

This idea that we're supposed to just accept the losing because winning is really hard is crazy.

Since their last Superbowl they have only had two playoff seasons and both those playoff seasons they were horrendous for half the year.

The Patriots have done a lot of losing since 2019.

 

[Ross12]

My overall take on Van Pelt now that some dust has settled: This offense is in a ROUGH state. Before free agency and re-signings, they need a starting QB and two OT, they have no TE's under contract, they have one proven RB and they need a talent infusion in the WR room. On top of that, they need to mend some schisms, sort out the locker room lawyers, and the head coach is a young, defensive guy.

When you break a leg, before you can start rebuilding your strength in it you have to splint it, put it in a cast, and let it heal. I think that's why they went with Van Pelt over a guy like Caley. You need someone with some experience, and it sounds like he's a good locker room guy as well. Heal the offense, get some of those holes filled, stop the bleeding. We couldn't go straight to fresh, innovation, young gun until that foundation is re-established.

Down the line, when you've got your QB and there's more talent on the roster, if the offense has stagnated, that's when you bring in the "next big thing" and shoot for the moon, IMO.

Good take. Van Pelt is the guy to bring in to install the foundations of a West Coast offense. This will be a challenge to transition and there will be growing pains. Once things are settled, if it feels too simplistic after a couple of years, then they can go for an innovator who is an offshoot of the WC from the McVay/Shanahan/etc trees and it will be an easy transition for them from there. They would not need to make big player personnel changes as the core fundamentals of what the schemes need would be largely similar.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Throttled?? are you saying Miami's Offense have been figured?? Not by your BB I can tell you.

They have crashed and burned for the 2nd year in a row. They are built for big plays in the passing game and are lacking intermediate WR’s that can do the dirty work and help move the chains. Also, they don’t have a physical run game. Spags shut that **** down.

 

[AQPE]

Not to be nosey, but what's a Jumbo? I hope it's not the size of your waist.

Jumbo is the mascot for Tufts University, the sports teams play under that name, and many “Tuftonians” refer to our fellow alumni, etc. as such (because “Tuftonians” is weird). It originated with P.T. Barnum who was a significant donor to Tufts, including donating the stuffed carcass of Jumbo the Elephant (one of the most popular attractions of the Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey Circus). Sadly the carcass was consumed in a fire in the 1970s, except for a small remnant of a tusk.

There have apparently been a few Jumbos that have made it to the NFL as coaches, the only players I can recall are a running back in the 1970s (I can't remember his name) and Methuen's own Mark Buben. So it's fun for me to think that a Jumbo will be coaching the Pats. I think one of Kraft's kids (maybe Dan) is also a Jumbo.

I tagged @PatsWickedPissah because, like me, he has shared that he is an alumnus of the College of Engineering. Tufts has generally sucked at football, but for a while was great in sailing. It was pretty good for learning also.

 

[venecol]

Yea. I do actually.

If the goal is winning 11 games then alot of teams won the Superbowl this year. Congratulations to them.

Lol, I know you're bitter but come on.

Only 5 AFC teams won 11+ games, one is in SB.
Only 4 NFC teams won 11+ games, one is in SB.

It's likely an 11 game winner, wins the SB.

First time Pats won the SB, they won 11 games.
Last time Pats won the SB, they won 11 games.

 

[festy1986]

Lol, I know you're bitter but come on.

Only 5 AFC teams won 11+ games, one is in SB.
Only 4 NFC teams won 11+ games, one is in SB.

It's likely an 11 game winner, wins the SB.

First time Pats won the SB, they won 11 games.
Last time Pats won the SB, they won 11 games.

What's your point? That winning games is what matters?

I subscribe to the if you ain't first your last scripture.

Like, do you sit around and think about how awesome 2007 was? Cause I don't.

 

[upstater1]

So how much losing is acceptable to you before we move on from "patriot fans are spoiled brats" to "Patriots don't know what they're doing?"

This idea that we're supposed to just accept the losing because winning is really hard is crazy.

Since their last Superbowl they have only had two playoff seasons and both those playoff seasons they were horrendous for half the year.

The Patriots have done a lot of losing since 2019.

Finish the rebuild.

LTs, QBs and WRs don't materialize out of thin air.

In 2021, our defense had 6 old men as starters, slow as hell, couldn't force a punt out of the Bills. Hightower, Van Noy, McCourty, Collins, Chung, they're all gone. Hopefully JC Jackson is gone too!

The defense has been transformed with fast players, and we don't have those problems with the Bills any more: Dugger, Barmore, Keion, Mack Wilson, Uche, Gonzalez, Marcus Jones, Peppers.

Mac Jones, Tyquan and JuJu have been bad picks. I want to know who to blame for that? Some reporters like Callahan seem to think it wasn't BB! Whatever. Keep rebuilding, don't chuck it all away because you've lost patience.

Because then you will start from the very beginning. And you'll enter a cycle. Rinse and repeat.

 

[upstater1]

Throttled?? are you saying Miami's Offense have been figured?? Not by your BB I can tell you.

You seem to have fallen asleep over the last 3rd of the season.

Look what the Bills did to Miami, with a hurt defense.

As for BB, there was an article out there the other day of coaches in the NFL saying he gave the blueprint that destroyed the Eagles' season. It doesn't surprise me that you have no clue that Belichick is the master of devising defensive gameplans. I doubt you watched the '01, '18 Super Bowls, never mind the Giants Super Bowls of the late 80s, early 90s.

Against the Phins? Miami:

1st week, 37 points against Chargers
2nd week, 24 points against Patriots
3rd week, 70 points against Broncos
4th week, 20 points against Bills
5th week, 31 points against Giants
6th week, 42 points against Panthers

People started to watch what the Patriots and Bills did (Patriots and Bills actually run similar defenses).

Week 16: 20 points
Week 17: 19 points
Week 18: 14 points
Playoffs: 3 points

Clear differences in points scored between the losing and bad teams unfamiliar with them and the teams that WERE familiar with them and/or had winning records.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

It will be interesting to see how much this will help the players since WC philosophy is to ignore coverage and just run the route you're called to run, whether it's man or zone.

How many times have we heard that one of our WRs ran the wrong route? Finding a WR who is fast, elusive and can reliably catch is hard enough. But then demanding that he can also decipher the coverage and adjust his route precisely in line with the QB's thinking is apparently a bridge too far. Such guys exist, but you sure as hell don't easily find them outside the first dozen draft picks.

 

[venecol]

What's your point? That winning games is what matters?

My point is that you first have to get to the dance to have a chance. Winning double digit games during the season almost assures you'll be in it.

I subscribe to the if you ain't first your last scripture.

You may want to pick another sport to follow, for your general health that is.

Like, do you sit around and think about how awesome 2007 was? Cause I don't.

2007 WAS awesome. It just ended badly.

 

[Steve102]

Doing my research on van pelt after the sighing it was a good move by Mayo/wolf, he is experienced, good with QBs checks alot of boxes that you want in an OC, we knew the jobs wasn't exactly desirable. So I'm just happy to have someone as OC. Can't be anymore worse than the NAVY offense last season 32nd ranked.

I gotta tell you man, this whole "not desirable" mantra that gets repeated here... don't get it. Jobs are generally open because the previous regime failed. Rare is it that Bill Walsh retires and George Seifert takes over and the train keeps going. Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer. I can't think of a lot more.

This is a good if not great ownership, with a storied franchise with a rich history of winning. This is not the Jete, the Dan Snyder Redskins, the cheap Spanos folks in San Diego LA, Tepper in Carolina or bowl cut Davis with the quick hook in Vegas. This is one of the pillars in the NFL. Right there with the Steelers, 49ers and Cowboys. You can bet that guys want to be here.

Simply put, guys want to coach in the NFL, and this is one of the better franchises, regardless of what Felger and his ilk say.

 

[Headcase]

I gotta tell you man, this whole "not desirable" mantra that gets repeated here... don't get it. Jobs are generally open because the previous regime failed. Rare is it that Bill Walsh retires and George Seifert takes over and the train keeps going. Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer. I can't think of a lot more.

This is a good if not great ownership, with a storied franchise with a rich history of winning. This is not the Jete, the Dan Snyder Redskins, the cheap Spanos folks in San Diego LA, Tepper in Carolina or bowl cut Davis with the quick hook in Vegas. This is one of the pillars in the NFL. Right there with the Steelers, 49ers and Cowboys. You can bet that guys want to be here.

Simply put, guys want to coach in the NFL, and this is one of the better franchises, regardless of what Felger and his ilk say.

That is what fans say, most OCs are looking for a job that will get them noticed quickly for the next HC opening. With as much uncertainty as there is around the Offense talent wise, it just isn't a prime spot to land.

 

[raduray]

Not sure what this is trying to prove since Stefanski is the play-caller.

Don't know enough to agree or disagree, but I understand the point that was being made, that the scheme was old and predictable.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Don't know enough to agree or disagree, but I understand the point that was being made, that the scheme was old and predictable.

It was also for an offense being run by the withered remains of Joe Flacco. But yes, let's blame the guy who doesn't call the plays or the guy who threw the interception.

 

[borg]

They (Miami) are built for big plays in the passing game

Tagovailoa ranks No. 1 among all NFL quarterbacks in having the quickest time to throw, an average of 2.36 seconds per pass, according to NFL Next Gen Stats.

and (Miami) are lacking intermediate WR’s that can do the dirty work and help move the chains.

Miami ranked #3 in passing 1st downs (223)

 

[Steve102]

That is what fans say, most OCs are looking for a job that will get them noticed quickly for the next HC opening. With as much uncertainty as there is around the Offense talent wise, it just isn't a prime spot to land.

Like most teams, there's a reason the job is vacant.

 

[festy1986]

Finish the rebuild.

LTs, QBs and WRs don't materialize out of thin air.

In 2021, our defense had 6 old men as starters, slow as hell, couldn't force a punt out of the Bills. Hightower, Van Noy, McCourty, Collins, Chung, they're all gone. Hopefully JC Jackson is gone too!

The defense has been transformed with fast players, and we don't have those problems with the Bills any more: Dugger, Barmore, Keion, Mack Wilson, Uche, Gonzalez, Marcus Jones, Peppers.

Mac Jones, Tyquan and JuJu have been bad picks. I want to know who to blame for that? Some reporters like Callahan seem to think it wasn't BB! Whatever. Keep rebuilding, don't chuck it all away because you've lost patience.

Because then you will start from the very beginning. And you'll enter a cycle. Rinse and repeat.

So the rebuild wasn't done in 2021? When they retooled and made the playoffs?

So how long is a rebuild?

My point is that you first have to get to the dance to have a chance. Winning double digit games during the season almost assures you'll be in it.


You may want to pick another sport to follow, for your general health that is.


2007 WAS awesome. It just ended badly.

So we agree. No championship no bueno.

I enjoy when they win, I don't care when they lose. I'm here for the bad times just like I was for the good times.

I understand that winning every year inst feasible and that 11 wins is a solid productive season.

I just don't think it matters if you don't win the title. Who cares?

It's like the Bruins winning the first seed every year and not getting out of the first round. It doesn't matter how good their season was.

 

[upstater1]

So the rebuild wasn't done in 2021? When they retooled and made the playoffs?

So how long is a rebuild?


So we agree. No championship no bueno.

I enjoy when they win, I don't care when they lose. I'm here for the bad times just like I was for the good times.

I understand that winning every year inst feasible and that 11 wins is a solid productive season.

I just don't think it matters if you don't win the title. Who cares?

It's like the Bruins winning the first seed every year and not getting out of the first round. It doesn't matter how good their season was.

How was that a rebuild? We had most of the guys from 2019 on that team and they were all in their 30s?

We have 2 players from 2019 now (Andrews and Wise) and Wise didn't even play back then.

Since Mac Jones was drafted, over 50+ players on our regular roster joined the team.

Our FAs are now pretty old (Hunter Henry, Gesicki, Pharoah, Parker, JuJu, Bourne, Trent Brown, Reiff, Anderson, McDermott, Judon, Godchaux, Ezekiel) but otherwise, most of all our other players are young.

The only exceptions to this are Wise, Andrews and Jon Jones.

It's a young team.

 

[dliverey44]

I'm telling you and I'll keep saying it. MAC n Zapp are not guys that can help along the draft pick.. fields would be the bridge QB..

You are correct that Bailey Jones are not the guys but why give up draft up draft capital for a 1 year bridge because his 5th year option will be more expensive than signing a 1-2 year bridge FA QB. Also, I am not convinced that Fields is any better than Brissett/Trod Taylor.

 

[upstater1]

If you ask me, this analytics stuff is totally for the birds. Measuring players by a set of rather finite variables when there are 100+ more a coach needs to consider, it's crazy we're even doing this computer stuff. It's mindless fantasy football and radio talk stuff. I feel that way when it comes to going for it on 4th down on different parts of the field and also when trying to assess college and pro talent.