Why can't we draft receivers?

[Real fan 02]

No one is respecting parker and juju. I'm sorry. You honestly believe with a better QB teams are doubling them and coming up with gameplan to limit them or they are putting 100 yards on you?

Some of these opinions can't be serious. There is a difference to a Justin Jefferson, aj brown, Deebo etc. and what we are trotting out.

They are fine players. But any team with juju/parker as your #1 targets is not going far.

Agreed! Of course QB play has to be adequate.. however Jake browning for example..Cincy back up has Chase and Higgins with Boyd as well as his weapons. Need weapons in this league to be able to make defenses respect you.

 

[Wozzy]

No one is respecting parker and juju. I'm sorry. You honestly believe with a better QB teams are doubling them and coming up with gameplan to limit them or they are putting 100 yards on you?

Some of these opinions can't be serious. There is a difference to a Justin Jefferson, aj brown, Deebo etc. and what we are trotting out.

They are fine players. But any team with juju/parker as your #1 targets is not going far.

We had other weapons besides Parker and Juju… and there’s maybe 3-4 WR’s in the entire league that scare opposing defensive coordinators enough to double them consistently.

Bourne, Douglas in the slot, Thornton on the edge, Henry, Gesicki, Brown, both Rhamondre and Zeke as outlets.

Devante Adams, Darren Waller, Jakobi Meyers, Renfrow, Michael Mayer, Josh Jacobs at RB. The Raiders have some of the best weapons in the NFL… they’ve scored the 27th fewest points in the NFL.

Football is a team sport, weapons don’t produce in a vacuum… they need blocking first and a good QB. We had neither most of the season.

 

[1960Pats]

I really wish they dumbed down the offensive scheme. No reason for it to as complicated as it’s been reported to be.

Their offense is hardly complicated. If it was the defenses they play wouldn't look like they had a copy of the Pats playbook. The complicated part of the team is the defense, where Bill spends most of his draft capital.

 

[1960Pats]

Absolutely correct, some get caught up in the PAST allure of all the winning over the years. Of course Bill was best then as HC, people have to remember the last 3,4 seasons were pretty much wasted. 2021 was all a mirage. The organization needs to press on.

It's absolutely fascinating to me that a year after winning his 6th SB and immediately after leading the team to a 12-4 record with about the same roster and multiple offensive injuries, that Bill the genius would have no problem letting Brady walk with no backup available. The past didn't mean sh!t to Bill then but when pressed on why we should trust him now his only answer was to look at the last 25 years, avoiding the last 4 like they didn't exist. It seems to be working on some of the fans though.

 

[Real fan 02]

Faxt

It's absolutely fascinating to me that a year after winning his 6th SB and immediately after leading the team to a 12-4 record with about the same roster and multiple offensive injuries, that Bill the genius would have no problem letting Brady walk with no backup available. The past didn't mean sh!t to Bill then but when pressed on why we should trust him now his only answer was to look at the last 25 years, avoiding the last 4 like they didn't exist. It seems to be working on some of the fans though.

Facts spoken, some here will defend him at any cost. I've often said myself that he's had illustrious career, it's just time the teams trended in the wrong direction. What I was thankful for is that yesterday's game want en emphatic reminder of what this team is. Embrace change! Is what I say.

 

[RIpats88]

We had other weapons besides Parker and Juju… and there’s maybe 3-4 WR’s in the entire league that scare opposing defensive coordinators enough to double them consistently.

Bourne, Douglas in the slot, Thornton on the edge, Henry, Gesicki, Brown, both Rhamondre and Zeke as outlets.

Devante Adams, Darren Waller, Jakobi Meyers, Renfrow, Michael Mayer, Josh Jacobs at RB. The Raiders have some of the best weapons in the NFL… they’ve scored the 27th fewest points in the NFL.

Football is a team sport, weapons don’t produce in a vacuum… they need blocking first and a good QB. We had neither most of the season.

acting like juju or parker are 1k yard receivers just waiting for the right QB is pure delusion. both are #3's at best a #2. i love throwing Thornton in there as a weapon when he doesnt have 100 yards on the season. btw pickens just crossed 1000 yards on the season and thornton is inching towards 100!

why do we have to play pretend and act like an elite talent at receiver doesn't matter in todays NFL? and a bunch of average JAGs is just as good enough when anyone with eyes can clearly see it does?

can anyone realistically look at the top teams in the league and then look at ours and say "wow our roster is comparable offensive wise just a QB away!"

 

[40yrpatsfan]

It's absolutely fascinating to me that a year after winning his 6th SB and immediately after leading the team to a 12-4 record with about the same roster and multiple offensive injuries, that Bill the genius would have no problem letting Brady walk with no backup available. The past didn't mean sh!t to Bill then but when pressed on why we should trust him now his only answer was to look at the last 25 years, avoiding the last 4 like they didn't exist. It seems to be working on some of the fans though.

Brady wanted to leave for reasons only he knows (probably related to the Miami tampering), and requested after the 2018 SB that he not be tagged after the following year 2019. Kraft publicly granted him that freedom, saying it was the least he could do given everything Tom had done. It was not Bill "letting Brady walk". The fact Brady was turning 43 was a contributing factor I'm sure, and that Giselle wanted him to retire etc. All roads pointed to Brady leaving, and nobody was at fault.

 

[Wozzy]

acting like juju or parker are 1k yard receivers just waiting for the right QB is pure delusion. both are #3's at best a #2. i love throwing Thornton in there as a weapon when he doesnt have 100 yards on the season. btw pickens just crossed 1000 yards on the season and thornton is inching towards 100!

why do we have to play pretend and act like an elite talent at receiver doesn't matter in todays NFL? and a bunch of average JAGs is just as good enough when anyone with eyes can clearly see it does?

can anyone realistically look at the top teams in the league and then look at ours and say "wow our roster is comparable offensive wise just a QB away!"

Juju is the same receiver as Jakobi Meyers, who posters here are suggesting would have changed the entire outcome of Mac's trajectory... which is a joke. Juju is a 800-900 yard receiver at this point, he was last season, he was in 2020 the last season he played a full 16 games prior to last year. Meyer's career high yards is 866, Juju had 933 last year... he's only a #2 but the Chiefs won a championship with 2's and 3's last year and most of the Patriot's championships were won with the same.

With Joe Burrow, Mahomes or Herbert this is a top ten scoring team and the weapons look fine... we had nothing like that kind of QB production.

 

[RIpats88]

Juju is the same receiver as Jakobi Meyers, who posters here are suggesting would have changed the entire outcome of Mac's trajectory... which is a joke. Juju is a 800-900 yard receiver at this point, he was last season, he was in 2020 the last season he played a full 16 games prior to last year. Meyer's career high yards is 866, Juju had 933 last year... he's only a #2 but the Chiefs won a championship with 2's and 3's last year and most of the Patriot's championships were won with the same.

With Joe Burrow, Mahomes or Herbert this is a top ten scoring team and the weapons look fine... we had nothing like that kind of QB production.

pretending like Travis Kelce doesnt exist to make your argument that a #1 target isn't needed is one of the dumbest takes i constantly see on this board. and its not just you. its most of the bill bobo "just one player away!" crowd.
lets pretend like Gronkowski never existed either.

its a dishonest argument. sure, you don't need a #1 receiver if your tight end is a hall of famer putting up 1000+ yards and 10td's. Great argument. If we pretend they don't exist then my argument works!

its not like those 2 have some sort of trickle effect on the offense or were essentially the same as a 1000yard receiver. lets pretend they both won with a bunch of parkers/jujus.

if it makes you feel better patriots need an elite "receiving target" whether that is a receiver or tight end i don't care. but considering there is only one Kelce or Gronk type talent. i'm using receiver.

name me one superbowl team winning or losing without at least 1 elite talent on offense? where their #1 target is the caliber of juju/parker?

burrow is throwing to chase/higgins. mahomes to Kelce(and is struggling without a competent #2). and Herbert has struggled with elite talent. this idea that you replace chase/higgins/kelce/keenan allen with Devante parker/Juju and QB production is the same is pretty laughable honestly.

 

[RIpats88]

chiefs are just scraping by with Kelce and a bunch of jags. but i'm supposed to expect that if Kelce retired next season and the chiefs replaced him with parker or juju with the same receiving core then the Chiefs wouldn't miss a beat and are superbowl bound.

or if the bengals replaced chase/higgins with juju/parker they would keep on rolling....

do some of these fans even watch the NFL? its as if some of the opinions are by 13 year olds who only watched the patriots and never another NFL game.

 

[PatsFan2]

chiefs are just scraping by with Kelce and a bunch of jags. but i'm supposed to expect that if Kelce retired next season and the chiefs replaced him with parker or juju with the same receiving core then the Chiefs wouldn't miss a beat and are superbowl bound.

or if the bengals replaced chase/higgins with juju/parker they would keep on rolling....

The Rookie Rice is their Best WR and he's growing with Mahomes sure wish we had a WR like that don't sleep.

Rashee Rice - Kansas City Chiefs Wide Receiver - ESPN

View the profile of Kansas City Chiefs Wide Receiver Rashee Rice on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

www.espn.com

 

[Rob0729]

I wonder how many of the Patriots failed drafted receivers would have been a success elsewhere. I wonder how many are just because of poor drafting and how many are because they are poorly developed after they are drafted. It is hard to ever know because once a player fails in one place, a team isn't going to invest time to retrain these players. They just end up being crappy players forever with a rare few actually rehabbing their career.

I look at Thornton. He looked really promising early year before he got hurt. And to this day, he still struggles with some of the fundamentals and route running. Maybe if he was coached better, he would be a good player. He has the physical tools to at least be an one dimensional deep threat. He hasn't even become that.

Belichick's requirements for a WR is probably not the best. I think he would pass on a stud receiver who cannot block for a lesser receiver who does everything. He seems to prioritize blocking for a WR more than most.

 

[Wozzy]

pretending like Travis Kelce doesnt exist to make your argument that a #1 target isn't needed is one of the dumbest takes i constantly see on this board. and its not just you. its most of the bill bobo "just one player away!" crowd.
lets pretend like Gronkowski never existed either.

its a dishonest argument. sure, you don't need a #1 receiver if your tight end is a hall of famer putting up 1000+ yards and 10td's. Great argument. If we pretend they don't exist then my argument works!

its not like those 2 have some sort of trickle effect on the offense or were essentially the same as a 1000yard receiver. lets pretend they both won with a bunch of parkers/jujus.

if it makes you feel better patriots need an elite "receiving target" whether that is a receiver or tight end i don't care. but considering there is only one Kelce or Gronk type talent. i'm using receiver.

name me one superbowl team winning or losing without at least 1 elite talent on offense? where their #1 target is the caliber of juju/parker?

burrow is throwing to chase/higgins. mahomes to Kelce(and is struggling without a competent #2). and Herbert has struggled with elite talent. this idea that you replace chase/higgins/kelce/keenan allen with Devante parker/Juju and QB production is the same is pretty laughable honestly.

Hunter Henry, Mike Gesicki, Rhamondre and Zeke exist also…. it doesn’t change our QB play has sucked and Mahomes is arguably the best QB in the league. Laughable…

 

[RIpats88]

Hunter Henry, Mike Gesicki, Rhamondre and Zeke exist also…. it doesn’t change our QB play has sucked and Mahomes is arguably the best QB in the league. Laughable…

pretending they are on par with Gronk/kelce is pretty laughable.

 

[Wozzy]

pretending they are on par with Gronk/kelce is pretty laughable.

Gronk was way above Kelce because he blocked like a superior OLineman. Start there.

Kelce is as much a product of Reid’s offense and league leading targets as he is a superior talent. Hunter Henry playing for Reid his entire career puts up similar numbers as Kelce.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I wonder how many of the Patriots failed drafted receivers would have been a success elsewhere. I wonder how many are just because of poor drafting and how many are because they are poorly developed after they are drafted. It is hard to ever know because once a player fails in one place, a team isn't going to invest time to retrain these players. They just end up being crappy players forever with a rare few actually rehabbing their career.

Almost zero. They weren’t successful in NE because they weren’t any good. The ones that were good from the start like Branch, Givens in his 2nd year, Mitchell, Dobson showing promise until his injuries, and now Douglas wasn’t because they were “coached up”. Why is Douglas the leader in targets and yards, but Thornton barely sees the field? You either have it or you don’t.

Chad Jackson who tore his ACL his rookie year was the only outlier. He was never the same and had no agility after that. Edelman is an outlier in being coached as he actually had to learn how to play WR. Kembrell Thompkins showed some ability early, but then fell off a cliff.

I look at Thornton. He looked really promising early year before he got hurt. And to this day, he still struggles with some of the fundamentals and route running. Maybe if he was coached better, he would be a good player. He has the physical tools to at least be an one dimensional deep threat. He hasn't even become that.

He just isn’t any good. Look back on all the rookie WR’s around the NFL over the years that were great or showed promise from the start. It wasn’t because of coaching.

 

[captain stone]

Almost zero. They weren’t successful in NE because they weren’t any good. The ones that were good from the start like Branch, Givens in his 2nd year, Mitchell, Dobson showing promise until his injuries, and now Douglas wasn’t because they were “coached up”. Why is Douglas the leader in targets and yards, but Thornton barely sees the field? You either have it or you don’t.

Givens was obviously self-motivated, but I also give credit to our coaches then for his development here... and Aaron Dropson should've been Keenan Allen... I'm also willing to give credit to Troy Brown for some of Pop's development; he's really the first standard-sized Slot WR he's had the opportunity to coach...

Chad Jackson who tore his ACL his rookie year was the only outlier. He was never the same and had no agility after that. Edelman is an outlier in being coached as he actually had to learn how to play WR. Kembrell Thompkins showed some ability early, but then fell off a cliff.

I've never included CJack - or Maroney for that matter - when listing all of Bill's pre-ordained draft busts; he was the best WR available after Santonio Holmes was taken, so I had no problem with the pick or the trade-up to acquire him... I've always wondered though if he wasn't somehow given by Urban Meyer the answers to the questions Bill & Skippy had for him at the combine...

He just isn’t any good. Look back on all the rookie WR’s around the NFL over the years that were great or showed promise from the start. It wasn’t because of coaching.

BoneyT didn't deserve to be drafted ahead of even Romeo Doubs or Khalil Shakir, who weren't chosen until #s 132 & 148 respectively.
Astoundingly, unforgivably Horrible pick.

 

[Real fan 02]

Givens was obviously self-motivated, but I also give credit to our coaches then for his development here... and Aaron Dropson should've been Keenan Allen... I'm also willing to give credit to Troy Brown for some of Pop's development; he's really the first standard-sized Slot WR he's had the opportunity to coach...



I've never included CJack - or Maroney for that matter - when listing all of Bill's pre-ordained draft busts; he was the best WR available after Santonio Holmes was taken, so I had no problem with the pick or the trade-up to acquire him... I've always wondered though if he wasn't somehow given by Urban Meyer the answers to the questions Bill & Skippy had for him at the combine...




BoneyT didn't deserve to be drafted ahead of even Romeo Doubs or Khalil Shakir, who weren't chosen until #s 132 & 148 respectively.
Astoundingly, unforgivably Horrible pick.

It's always going to be a head scratcher with WRs. I've also taken into account that the patriots system was always so complex that it's overwhelming for young guys and even some vets to take in. Ochocinco and Joey Galloway, Reggie Wayne at his age felt it was just to much for him to want to endure.. tory holt as well.

However I look at Pittsburgh and how they just seem to be a haven for WRs.

 

[jdlboot14]

The facts are undisputed.
Pats (under BB) should only draft WR's in the 4th-7th rounds (+ UDFA), anything higher will be a wasted pick.

< 4th rd. Good - Givens, Slater, Edelman, Mitchell, Berrios, Meyers, Douglas
< 4th rd. Bad - Sam, Ebert, Boyce, Gallon, Lucien, Nixon
> 3rd rd. Good - Branch...
> 3rd rd. Bad - Johnson, Jackson, Tate, Price, Dobson, Harry, Thornton

 

[RIpats88]

Almost zero. They weren’t successful in NE because they weren’t any good. The ones that were good from the start like Branch, Givens in his 2nd year, Mitchell, Dobson showing promise until his injuries, and now Douglas wasn’t because they were “coached up”. Why is Douglas the leader in targets and yards, but Thornton barely sees the field? You either have it or you don’t.

Chad Jackson who tore his ACL his rookie year was the only outlier. He was never the same and had no agility after that. Edelman is an outlier in being coached as he actually had to learn how to play WR. Kembrell Thompkins showed some ability early, but then fell off a cliff.

He just isn’t any good. Look back on all the rookie WR’s around the NFL over the years that were great or showed promise from the start. It wasn’t because of coaching.

yeah receivers either get it or they don't. I don't expect every draft pick to be a "star receiver" but its concerning that the guys we draft don't even belong on the field. its not like harry/thornton became just 200-300 yard guys.

they legit cant play the position.