Should Belichick Retain Personnel Duties?

[RIpats88]

The QB makes the entire Rolex watch tick.

I watched NE vs KC AFCC 2018 last night. Burkhead, Hogan, Edelman, Gronk, all stepped up huge. BB brought those guys in and they executed.

Find a QB this draft.

You are acting as if the receiving talent on this team is anywhere close to Edelman/Gronk.

that is as much of the problem as the QB is. just changing the QB ALONE and giving them Parker/Juju to throw too isn't going to yield much better results.

we need a new QB, an elite WR, a 3rd down RB and new OL

 

[Thunderhead]

New England residents should legitimately storm One Patriot Place if Bill retains full control beyond this season. There is just no universe where that would be an acceptable course of action.

 

[RIpats88]

Huge mistake firing BB, but Kraft should have traded a Super Bowl by keeping Brady and letting BB go back in 2020.

At least Kraft would have the most Super Bowl wins for the time being.

how many more years should he be given to rebuild the team? this is year 3. do we give him another 3-4?

and his results drafting have been poor since about 2019. so thats half a decade. it's not like this team is bristling with young talent on offense and just needs a QB to bring them to the promised land. its devoid of talent all over. and thats thanks alot to Bill.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Yup, that's a fine absolute. How well did that strategy work in the Mac Jones draft year?

Apples and oranges. This year they will likely have a top 3 pick, instead of the #15. And while there are no guarantees with any pick the likelihood is greater the higher you pick. Allen, Mahomes, Tua, Burrows, Lawrence, and others demonstrate that you can get a franchise with a high pick if it’s used wisely. You can also get a Wilson or Manziel if you are careless with the pick, but my hope is that they won’t be.

 

[Huckleberry1]

how many more years should he be given to rebuild the team? this is year 3. do we give him another 3-4?

and his results drafting have been poor since about 2019. so thats half a decade. it's not like this team is bristling with young talent on offense and just needs a QB to bring them to the promised land. its devoid of talent all over. and thats thanks alot to Bill.

I’m pretty sure he’s had 4 years, and that’s enough time to show solid development. The defense is solid, as is their running back room, but competing for the 1st pick overall in the 4th year of the rebuild is grounds for firing.

 

[Calhoun44]

I would like to see him stay on one more year. The defense is elite (especially if Judon and Gonzalez are back next year), now we know Mac isn't the guy (so maybe Kraft will stay out of his way with the next QB) and I think giving him one last try to right the ship would be very reasonable (if he wants to stay) considering all he has done for our favorite football team.

 

[Toofy]

I would like to see him stay on one more year. The defense is elite (especially if Judon and Gonzalez are back next year), now we know Mac isn't the guy (so maybe Kraft will stay out of his way with the next QB) and I think giving him one last try to right the ship would be very reasonable (if he wants to stay) considering all he has done for our favorite football team.

You are a very nice guy... but sorry, giving bill the keys again when we have our best pick in decades . Too risky . Not on...

 

[Huckleberry1]

I would like to see him stay on one more year. The defense is elite (especially if Judon and Gonzalez are back next year), now we know Mac isn't the guy (so maybe Kraft will stay out of his way with the next QB) and I think giving him one last try to right the ship would be very reasonable (if he wants to stay) considering all he has done for our favorite football team.

My biggest concern about losing Belichick as HC is the coaching of defensive backs. There is no better coach at developing great defensive backs than Belichick, and that’s critical in this era of high passing football. Not that there isn’t anyone else who can do it, but Belichick can turn just about any defensive back into a good to great player. However, he can’t be in control over all personnel anymore, there is just too much at stake this offseason to risk a wasted offseason.

 

[Toofy]

However, he can’t be in control over all personnel anymore, there is just too much at stake this offseason to risk a wasted offseason. the future.

Edited a bit

 

[RIpats88]

I’m pretty sure he’s had 4 years, and that’s enough time to show solid development. The defense is solid, as is their running back room, but competing for the 1st pick overall in the 4th year of the rebuild is grounds for firing.

Yeah no one expects a Superbowl. But the roster talent has only degraded since our supposed "reset year" in 2020

 

[lancerman]

I ask this question out of a lack of knowledge so don't jump at me. I remember reading that most teams use a national scouting service, National or Blesto to evaluate talent but that the Patriots use their own system. If so, ( and they are still using their own system) perhaps it is time to join the crowd since it appears the Pats system isn't doing that great.

It's a mix of a lot of things.

1. The Patriots were really good at working the cap in the early years, but teams have just gotten better at manipulating it and pushing money around to the point where teams are being rewarded for getting stars on contracts that seem ****ty but can rely on the increase in cap and ways to spread it out. So the old way of looking for value deal gems isn't as relevant. We balk too much at bigger contracts because we've been conditioned to and then someone else takes it on, gets mocked for it, then thrives, then when it doesn't really do the damage everyone expected, people already forgot about it.

2. Bill's evaluations kinda follow suit with that mentality. He wants guys he views as hard workers that fill a specific niche. But the league has nerfed practices and has nerfed defenses, so the end game is now to just find the most conventionally athletic and talented players. Which isn't what Bill's system or mentality looks for.

3. In a league with explosive offenses, the strong defense and ground and pound offense just isn't effective. There's too many disadvantages and it takes a good athlete burning the defense once or twice a game to undo that. You aren't going to see early 2000's Patriots teams anymore. Hell even 2018 kinda showed how the league was changing. Our defense held the Chiefs down in two seperate games, but you can only do that so long until the talent at skill positions can't be denied and we won, but we held on for dare life and had to ask Brady to win a shoot out at the end.

 

[lancerman]

how many more years should he be given to rebuild the team? this is year 3. do we give him another 3-4?

and his results drafting have been poor since about 2019. so thats half a decade. it's not like this team is bristling with young talent on offense and just needs a QB to bring them to the promised land. its devoid of talent all over. and thats thanks alot to Bill.

This is really year 4. The entire rational for getting rid of Brady was that we were already strapped in cap hell and keeping him meant a lot of players had to go and that it was a wait out year before we could go on a midguided spending spree.

He also doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023. The most recent year shouldn't be the worst. It should be when we start seeing things come together.

 

[jdlboot14]

BB would NEVER be demoted.
And as frustrated as I am with him lately, he shouldn't be either.
He can go try to resurrect another franchise if he wants. Or, just retire.
It's not like he's not going down as the greatest HC either way. So what if he has a few less regular season wins.
He's won 6 titles as HC/GM, and 2 more as a DC... in the modern era!

 

[VrabelJr]

This is really year 4. The entire rational for getting rid of Brady was that we were already strapped in cap hell and keeping him meant a lot of players had to go and that it was a wait out year before we could go on a midguided spending spree.

He also doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023. The most recent year shouldn't be the worst. It should be when we start seeing things come together.

This year is really year 0. 2021 was supposed to be year 1 of the rebuild but the playoff appearance changed expectations and approach. I think the 2022 draft and FA looks a lot different if we didn't make the playoffs the previous season. We would have focused on more foundational pieces. Even this season there was a lot of hope to be had but we're also cap strapped. It wasn't clear until the Dallas and NO blowouts that something was greatly afoul.

You're also re-writing history a bit. Not extending Brady was a paradox. If we pay him what he wanted and deserved we can't field a winner. It was obvious we needed to shore up the skill positions, DL, and Secondary after 2019's collapse down the stretch.

"Time to winning again since GOAT QB and Several Pro Bowlers Retire" is not a metric to judge a coach by and people on this forum really need to chill out.

 

[RIpats88]

This year is really year 0. 2021 was supposed to be year 1 of the rebuild but the playoff appearance changed expectations and approach. I think the 2022 draft and FA looks a lot different if we didn't make the playoffs the previous season. We would have focused on more foundational pieces. Even this season there was a lot of hope to be had but we're also cap strapped. It wasn't clear until the Dallas and NO blowouts that something was greatly afoul.

You're also re-writing history a bit. Not extending Brady was a paradox. If we pay him what he wanted and deserved we can't field a winner. It was obvious we needed to shore up the skill positions, DL, and Secondary after 2019's collapse down the stretch.

"Time to winning again since GOAT QB and Several Pro Bowlers Retire" is not a metric to judge a coach by and people on this forum really need to chill out.

this is some real revisionist history and Bill ball washing. so bill whiffed on all his draft picks because we made the playoffs in 2021?
Cant draft foundational pieces because we made the playoffs?

didn't stop us in the past from drafting Gronk, McCourty, wilfork etc. and we made the playoffs every year

patriots have 15million in cap space. how are we strapped? and even if so, who's fault is that? perhaps the GM who had to overspend because he had no "foundational pieces' to re-sign

 

[VrabelJr]

this is some real revisionist history and Bill ball washing. so bill whiffed on all his draft picks because we made the playoffs in 2021?
Cant draft foundational pieces because we made the playoffs?

didn't stop us in the past from drafting Gronk, McCourty, wilfork etc. and we made the playoffs every year

patriots have 15million in cap space. how are we strapped? and even if so, who's fault is that? perhaps the GM who had to overspend because he had no "foundational pieces' to re-sign

$15 million in cap space is strapped lol Do you know what the cap is now?

Gronk is the perfect example of calculated risk taking when you're a contender. He sat out the entire year of college. BB deserves credit for that.

We were only able to draft Wilfork at #21 after winning the Super Bowl because BB fleeced Baltimore the year prior.

Also go check out the entire 2021 draft class. It's looking like one of the worst in several years. If we knew Mac would be a bust the only other player worth taking was Christian Darrisaw.

 

[venecol]

Mike Reiss had an article in '21 about teams that spent the most in FAcy since 2016 having an avg of about +5.3 more wins that year. It was then followed by that same team having an avg of about +5.1 more loses the following year.

In '21 the Pats were that team, having 3 more wins that season followed by 2 more loses the following season. We know what followed.

The moral of that trend is you can't build a strong team through FAcy by outspending everyone else. It has to be done through the draft. Kraft made similar statements that offseason.

Assuming the Pats win 1 more game, at best we're looking at an 8-9 season in '24. There is no magic bullet. This team is devoid of too much talent, including coaching talent. It'll take several years to become a contender again, assuming:

1. We hit homeruns during the '24 draft and find a top 10-15 QB, OT, WR.
2. We hit homeruns during '25 draft.

Belichick will be 72 in '24 and we know his drafts sucks ass, which is why we are where we are. Do the 10 that voted for a 72 yo GM/HC really believe that there's magic in the air that allows a 72 and then 73 yo GM/HC to accomplish 1 & 2 above? You guys are delusional if you believe in magic.

The 2nd question in the poll is null and void since Bill won't accept a demotion to HC only. The correct answer is #3, with the caveat that he resign, not get fired.

 

[lancerman]

Mike Reiss had an article in '21 about teams that spent the most in FAcy since 2016 having an avg of about +5.3 more wins that year. It was then followed by that same team having an avg of about +5.1 more loses the following year.

In '21 the Pats were that team, having 3 more wins that season followed by 2 more loses the following season. We know what followed.

The moral of that trend is you can't build a strong team through FAcy by outspending everyone else. It has to be done through the draft. Kraft made similar statements that offseason.

Assuming the Pats win 1 more game, at best we're looking at an 8-9 season in '24. There is no magic bullet. This team is devoid of too much talent, including coaching talent. It'll take several years to become a contender again, assuming:

1. We hit homeruns during the '24 draft and find a top 10-15 QB, OT, WR.
2. We hit homeruns during '25 draft.

Belichick will be 72 in '24 and we know his drafts sucks ass, which is why we are where we are. Do the 10 that voted for a 72 yo GM/HC really believe that there's magic in the air that allows a 72 and then 73 yo GM/HC to accomplish 1 & 2 above? You guys are delusional if you believe in magic.

The 2nd question in the poll is null and void since Bill won't accept a demotion to HC only. The correct answer is #3, with the caveat that he resign, not get fired.

Exactly. There's no rational take where you see this team going from where it is today to a playoff contender next year. You are building for a minimum of 2-3 years out. There's almost zero point in betting all that on a coach who will be 73-74 at the time that hasn't shown the ability to have top to bottom solid drafts and fulfill positions of need. He's had 5 years to fix a clear WR problem, he can't do it. He's been having paper think offensive lines with draft picks that fizzle out. Hunter Henry is the only TE he's managed to make work via free agency and the draft and he was someone that we knew at a minimum would be solid based off past work.

It's time to just call it what it is. This isn't the spot for Bill Belichick anymore.

 

[Steve102]

I’m pretty sure he’s had 4 years, and that’s enough time to show solid development. The defense is solid, as is their running back room, but competing for the 1st pick overall in the 4th year of the rebuild is grounds for firing.

I posted in the Tuesday thread:

If you really get into it, I think we will find that he's gotten his core offensive skill players from guys already in the league. Patten, Fauria, Smith, Dillon, Moss, Welker, Amendola, Stallworth, Gaffney, Blount, Hogan all were vets in the league. The home grown offensive talent is a much shorter list: Branch, Ben Watson, Edelman, Gronk, the other TE idiot, Sweet Feet, Sony (yeah I know he's polarizing), and of course Brady. Bill builds defense and OL via draft, fills in the rest with FAs, and he's missed on a bunch of late because he doesn't have the QB to lift them up.

I guess if you really analyze it, not much has changed. This is how he does it.

He hasn't changed on how he team builds.

To your other point, as bad as he's been on WRs, he's 180 degrees away on DBs. There's still no one better. He takes JAGs and makes them into playmakers. They leave, and they are garbage. Usually has one stud CB to take away one guy.

 

[Calhoun44]

Exactly. There's no rational take where you see this team going from where it is today to a playoff contender next year. You are building for a minimum of 2-3 years out. There's almost zero point in betting all that on a coach who will be 73-74 at the time that hasn't shown the ability to have top to bottom solid drafts and fulfill positions of need. He's had 5 years to fix a clear WR problem, he can't do it. He's been having paper think offensive lines with draft picks that fizzle out. Hunter Henry is the only TE he's managed to make work via free agency and the draft and he was someone that we knew at a minimum would be solid based off past work.

It's time to just call it what it is. This isn't the spot for Bill Belichick anymore.

I am quite capable of finding a rational take where I see this team contend for a playoff berth next year. Many people just don't want to hear it. The pitchforks are out and there is no stopping the angry mob that somehow believes that getting rid of BB will solve all the problems. There are other possibilities.
1) Get two competent Quarterbacks
2) Bring in more new coaches and consultants to replace the "brain drain"
3) Solidify the WR position and the OL
4) Keep the defense intact and add a bit more speed at LB

The NFL always has a team or two that nobody saw rebounding from the previous year. I think that BB is still good enough to do it.