PostGame Thread REACTIONS: Preseason Game 1: NE vs HOU

[Kasmir]

And he was considered "raw," which is why he fell to round 2. That play you mention was a veteran-level read.

The thing that really surprised me about White last night was his acceleration. He closed extremely quickly when he had free openings to the QB or RB...

 

[Boston Boxer]

Tonight highlighted the need. Strong looked fine but I Harris, not so much.

tough to run behind that OLine but i get what you are saying.

 

[captain stone]

Don't forget the blatant Schooler block in the back they didn't call.

I also thought they missed a block in the back against Keion White during a play in which he was closing-in on the QB, again.

 

[captain stone]

1) None of the three Maybe Backs - Strong, Harris, Taylor - looked very good, particularly running inside, even allowing for the dismal o-line play. No explosion at all when they hit some resistance at the line: bump into a fat guy and fall down. Past Pats "third down backs" have been at least competent at this aspect of RB play, and that competence gave the run threat enough legitimacy that it was a help to the pass catching. I don't see much value in any of them. They certainly are not going to be very good stand-ins/relief runningwise for Stephenson. We need a solid backup RB. Zeke would be a fine option. I'd quit fooling around and get that done. If they feel they can afford the roster spot, they could keep one of the three, I suppose, but I think they are all practice-squad-worthy at best, and if you go that route, you don't necessarily get to keep the one you like best.

2) The quarterback situation got more interesting, didn't it? I felt last year that Zappe had played well enough to get a legit look as a possible competitor for the starting job, but I thought, and said at the time, that it would a competition Zappe would lose, and I think that is where we are. The upside limit to what Zappe can do is pretty impenetrable. He is what he is, and nothing more. He could certainly be a decent back up, but nothing more than that, and if he were to serve, following an injury to the starter, as a long-term backup, the season would likely be lost. Opponents will figure him out in no time and focus on attacking his limited strengths. With the O-line as feeble as it is, the need for a longer-term backup is certainly a possibility this year. ...Which brings us to Flash the Wunderkind Cunningham. His upside vastly exceeds that of Zappe: no question. In his first year - spread pretty thin as qb, wr and special teamer - he is not yet and may not be for a while as reliably competent a pure backup as Zappe, but it is at least reasonable to think that he'll catch up in time. Add to this that he can play a style of qb - one increasingly in demand - which neither Zappe nor McSorely can ever play. Add to that that he's pretty cheap (though not perhaps for an undrafted guy). Add to that that Bo'B has the skills and experience and the skills to take advantage of that sort of qb. All in all, at this point (Yeah, I know it's early), the best course might be: drop McSorley, try to get Zappe through to the practice squad (Shrug if somebody takes him and grab a veteran castoff for the practice squad emergency backup qb), let Mac start the season expecting, maybe insisting on, real improvement, and experiment with Flash the Wondertoy Cunningham, to see what develops. Zappe will likely serve as a reliably mediocre backup somewhere, but Cunningham is intriguing enough that I don't think the Pats - who are after all a team pretty early in a rebuild - should settle for that sort of option. We are not in a position to apply the finishing touches and ponder the decor; we are still stacking lumber to build the d----d house.

Mac might do well to heed the advice of Satchel Paige: "Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you."

Re the related discussion: I think trying to sneak Cunningham onto the practice squad would be very unwise.

Welcome back!

 

[bresna]

I think I might have this figured out - it's a pre-snap penalty, but they let play proceed in case the defence wants to decline the penalty. So then offsetting penalties makes sense.

Except offsetting penalties absolutely did not make sense on this one... this was the play where the refs called a phantom holding call on Ekuale, who was playing in the middle of the line where the RB ran through the line. Yeah, you read that right - the DL got called on a play where he was trying to shed a block to tackle the runner.

 

[Kasmir]

1) None of the three Maybe Backs - Strong, Harris, Taylor - looked very good, particularly running inside, even allowing for the dismal o-line play. No explosion at all when they hit some resistance at the line: bump into a fat guy and fall down. Past Pats "third down backs" have been at least competent at this aspect of RB play, and that competence gave the run threat enough legitimacy that it was a help to the pass catching. I don't see much value in any of them. They certainly are not going to be very good stand-ins/relief runningwise for Stephenson. We need a solid backup RB. Zeke would be a fine option. I'd quit fooling around and get that done. If they feel they can afford the roster spot, they could keep one of the three, I suppose, but I think they are all practice-squad-worthy at best, and if you go that route, you don't necessarily get to keep the one you like best.

2) The quarterback situation got more interesting, didn't it? I felt last year that Zappe had played well enough to get a legit look as a possible competitor for the starting job, but I thought, and said at the time, that it would a competition Zappe would lose, and I think that is where we are. The upside limit to what Zappe can do is pretty impenetrable. He is what he is, and nothing more. He could certainly be a decent back up, but nothing more than that, and if he were to serve, following an injury to the starter, as a long-term backup, the season would likely be lost. Opponents will figure him out in no time and focus on attacking his limited strengths. With the O-line as feeble as it is, the need for a longer-term backup is certainly a possibility this year. ...Which brings us to Flash the Wunderkind Cunningham. His upside vastly exceeds that of Zappe: no question. In his first year - spread pretty thin as qb, wr and special teamer - he is not yet and may not be for a while as reliably competent a pure backup as Zappe, but it is at least reasonable to think that he'll catch up in time. Add to this that he can play a style of qb - one increasingly in demand - which neither Zappe nor McSorely can ever play. Add to that that he's pretty cheap (though not perhaps for an undrafted guy). Add to that that Bo'B has the skills and experience and the skills to take advantage of that sort of qb. All in all, at this point (Yeah, I know it's early), the best course might be: drop McSorley, try to get Zappe through to the practice squad (Shrug if somebody takes him and grab a veteran castoff for the practice squad emergency backup qb), let Mac start the season expecting, maybe insisting on, real improvement, and experiment with Flash the Wondertoy Cunningham, to see what develops. Zappe will likely serve as a reliably mediocre backup somewhere, but Cunningham is intriguing enough that I don't think the Pats - who are after all a team pretty early in a rebuild - should settle for that sort of option. We are not in a position to apply the finishing touches and ponder the decor; we are still stacking lumber to build the d----d house.

Mac might do well to heed the advice of Satchel Paige: "Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you."

Re the related discussion: I think trying to sneak Cunningham onto the practice squad would be very unwise.

Neither Zappe nor Cunningham would clear waivers. Zappe showed too much promise last year and if Cunningham continues to play well he'd be sure to be picked up by somebody. Carrying 3 QB's on the 53 is hardly excessive; hell BB kept 4 in 2000 (Bledsoe, Fresz, Bishop and Brady) to avoid waiving Brady.

 

[FCB02062]

garbage oline or not, there was no improvement anywhere on offense. they couldn't move the ball, they were 25% on third down, threw for 86 yards, the starting qb averaged 5.6 ypa, absolutely nothing changed from last year's Matt Patricia game offense. What was different? They threw a ton of passes shorter than 5 yards, got stuffed at the line repeatedly, and generally looked like a team headed for 4 wins. Yes, it's the first preseason game, yes, there were players missing on the line....but that offense looked like the players haven't had one practice. It looked like last night was the first time the offensive players stepped on the field.
For all the circle jerking about the defense, are folks forgetting, yet again, they gave up 7 points at the end of the first half - and this has been a chronic problem of the Belichick defense of late.
Luckily there's a month until week one. Everyone's banking on guys coming back from a shi tty oline from last year to make a huge difference.

 

[Boston Boxer]

Jennings looked like he might be ready to play

seems like he has been on the team for 7 years already...he should be ready by now. He did look good though

 

[Boston Boxer]

garbage oline or not, there was no improvement anywhere on offense. they couldn't move the ball, they were 25% on third down, threw for 86 yards, the starting qb averaged 5.6 ypa, absolutely nothing changed from last year's Matt Patricia game offense. What was different? They threw a ton of passes shorter than 5 yards, got stuffed at the line repeatedly, and generally looked like a team headed for 4 wins. Yes, it's the first preseason game, yes, there were players missing on the line....but that offense looked like the players haven't had one practice. It looked like last night was the first time the offensive players stepped on the field.
For all the circle jerking about the defense, are folks forgetting, yet again, they gave up 7 points at the end of the first half - and this has been a chronic problem of the Belichick defense of late.
Luckily there's a month until week one. Everyone's banking on guys coming back from a shi tty oline from last year to make a huge difference.

i think you are over reacting. the OLine play has a lot to do with it. Preseason is more about evaluation than numbers imo

 

[TheRainMaker]

During the Pats dynasty, there was certainly a lot more starters that saw the field for at least one drive in the 1st preseason games. Now Bill is doing what all other teams do and don't think his starters need any reps despite having a losing record 2 of the last 3 seasons.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

White:

 

[AQPE]

Yes, but who?

I watched Dawand Jones the other night. PASS.

He was the only one available at Mapu's spot.

Otherwise, if you wanted a tackle, then erase Keion White or Christian Gonzalez.

I’m very optimistic about Mapu and accept that if they had gone in a different direction with pick #75 they may not have been able to select him with their next pick (#107).

However in my opinion with the unfair benefit of hindsight, I wish they would have taken the following guys who had more experience at OT in college than Sidy Sow.

• Wanya Morris #92
• Nick Saldiveri #103
• Blake Freeland #106
• Dawand Jones #111
• Carter Warren #120

I do have optimism about Sow and am glad they picked him. The pick I am more unhappy about was Ryland at #112, nothing against the player but for me that’s too high for a kicker.

 

[Sfpat]

Remember the year the Lions destroyed the Pat's in a preseason game, I believe it was a shutout. If memory is correct, the Pats won the SB that year. Just saying.

 

[Pape]

@Tunescribe thats all kinds of wrong

 

[sb1]

Remember the year the Lions destroyed the Pat's in a preseason game, I believe it was a shutout. If memory is correct, the Pats won the SB that year. Just saying.

I remember when the Lions went 4-0 in the preseason. Then they didn't win another one the rest of the season. Lol

 

[Captain Cliche]

Remember the year the Lions destroyed the Pat's in a preseason game, I believe it was a shutout. If memory is correct, the Pats won the SB that year. Just saying.

You all will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there was a SB season they lost all 4 pre-season games.

 

[upstater1]

I’m very optimistic about Mapu and accept that if they had gone in a different direction with pick #75 they may not have been able to select him with their next pick (#107).

However in my opinion with the unfair benefit of hindsight, I wish they would have taken the following guys who had more experience at OT in college than Sidy Sow.

• Wanya Morris #92
• Nick Saldiveri #103
• Blake Freeland #106
• Dawand Jones #111
• Carter Warren #120

I do have optimism about Sow and am glad they picked him. The pick I am more unhappy about was Ryland at #112, nothing against the player but for me that’s too high for a kicker.

Mapu was the only reach, Ryland was one of 2 Ks who was even viable this draft, and after the 1st went, we risked a lot if we would have passed on him.

Saldiveri is really raw. You might be right about Wanya Morris.

BUT Blake Freeland and Dawand Jones were STAY AWAY for me. Watching Jones the other night it was clear he couldn't move. Freeland doesn't have the functional strength to play. He's another Steuber. He gets tossed around like a rag doll.

 

[p8ryts]

I didn't know he was the top backup. Nyah!

 

[jdlboot14]

With some hours to breathe and consider... The coaches knew the OL would be totally patchwork and guys out of position. That's why they ran the most vanilla stuff, and probably wanted to test Zappe's mettle. Same with RB's. They were all going to look like they suck because of the OL. It's about testing what you do with it. It's a glorified joint practice session.
The only thing we can gather from that ugly showing is that the coaches know the majority of their OL is going to be fine.
I bet we'll see Strange & Brown practicing this week, and Onwenu doing rehab drills.
And next week's game, with Mac at QB, they'll start with Brown - Strange - Andrews - Ferentz/Mafi - McDermott.
BB likes playing head games with the fans and tv guys as much as his own players.

 

[captain stone]

Since there seems to be some disagreement about who the Texans played based on a Box Score, I actually went to Twitter and pulled snap counts. Based on that, I found that all of the Texans' defensive starters did indeed play with the exception of DT Sheldon Rankins, LB Christian Kirksey, and S Jimmie Ward. Their other starters all played around 20% of the snaps.

After that, their second string defense was a mix, but since we're mostly worried about the Pats OL, I focused on Houston's DL - their second string played a solid 30-50% of the snaps after the first string left depending on the player, which puts us into the 3rd/4th quarter.

Compare that to the below snap counts for the Pats OL:
First string:
Brown: 0%
Strange: 0%
D Andrews: 0%
Onwenu: 0%
Reiff: 0%

Second string:
Anderson: 0%
Murray: 0%
Ferentz: 81% (he must've played some LG for this to make sense)

He actually played a lot of Right Guard after Russey's injury.

Russey: 46%
McDermott: 0% (at right tackle)

Third string:
McDermott, I guess: 52%; Steuber: 60% (assume he played LT for the snaps to make sense)

Correct: Stubby played a lot of Left Tackle; don't remember if he played any at RT...

Mafi: 27% (lower than I thought)
J Andrews: 73%
Hines: 73%
Sow: 88%

As you can see above, a majority of the game was Houston's first or second string DL against McDermott or Steuber at LT /Ferentz/Jake Andrews/Russey or Hines/Sow. Hopefully that explains why it looked like ****.

Maybe, but I think the Siddy the Sow experiment at RT needs to end, soon. He was Horrible out there.