Hopkins Headed to Tennessee

[All3Phases]

I am sure Josh Allen was watching the D-Hop sweepstakes and when he saw he signed with Tennessee he checked off two wins against the Patriots on his calendar.

I was not a fan of the team signing Hopkins, but we are going to say theres like 3 receivers in the league that command special attention and Jefferson isnt one? Is Wozzy drunk today?

 

[PatsFan2]

I was not a fan of the team signing Hopkins, but we are going to say theres like 3 receivers in the league that command special attention and Jefferson isnt one? Is Wozzy drunk today?

Lets' add S Diggs to that list he certainly toys with our CB's. Hope Gonzo changes that.

 

[All3Phases]

Lets' add S Diggs to that list he certainly toys with our CB's. Hope Gonzo changes that.

95 ypg and a td per game over 6 games is nothing

 

[patfanken]

Some people seem to be overlooking that the Patriots wanted Hopkins on their roster. That's undeniable. So clearly they don't think 1) Hopkins is washed up or 2) that their current WR corps is satisfactory.

Your first point is spot on. Any talk on this thread that disses Hopkins' productivity (even in the last 2 years) is simply sour grapes. I have come to join in the hope that we WOULD sign him. Sorry that we didn't, but I NEVER felt he was a "season changer" type of signing. He would have made the WR room more talented, experienced AND deeper. None of these things are bad things

But your point that the fact we went after him is a reflection on how the team views its WR room is a bit overstated. You are ALWAYS looking to improve your team, regardless of how it is perceived. The thing is that THIS group is as good as any group of WR that didn't have Randy Moss on it that we've had. Not a high bar you might add, but we've had a LOT of success doing it this way. I guess the best description we can give them is quiet competence. It isn't exciting. No "#1's" No "all pros" Just a group that CAN be very effective within the CONTEXT of an entire offense.

In the end, it MIGHT turn out to be a blessing in disguise in the long run. JJ, Bourne, Parker, etc will all get more targets now. More opportunities to shine....or fail. IF they develop, then this will be a small blip. If not, then our perfect 20-20 hindsight can rip them a new one in the never ending "blame game".

 

[Grogan14]

I'll bet that the one thing most all of us would agree on is that BB's marketing skills are non-existent or even deliberately negative. Winning the DHop contest was obviously easily affordable would have made a huge difference in the fan base's excitement about the season and I suspect it would have helped with the team's morale as well.

I have no doubt Bill has some sort of cold calculus that said not to overpay DHop and he may even prove to have been correct, but it's astonishing that Kraft let him once again give the finger to the press and public's hopes.

Not only does Bill not give a sh*t about what any of us think, I believe he actually enjoys f*cking with us when (and while) he can.

He may have been right about DHop, but he'd better field a truly competitive team this year because the goodwill towards him is all but gone.

This. Seems like BB goes out of his way to give perpetual middle finger to fans and media. This was tolerated during winning seasons but the shelf life is about to expire on this approach which stifles team morale and fan excitement. Sonetimes you can both improve the team and build excitement and buzz simultaneously.
BB without TB12 is one big wet blanket buzz kill who is being paid 20 musd per year for mediocrity

 

[PatsFan2]

This. Seems like BB goes out of his way to give perpetual middle finger to fans and media. This was tolerated during winning seasons but the shelf life is about to expire on this approach which stifles team morale and fan excitement.

BB can rest on his laurels past accomplishments. Even after that he'll still be known for Stinking at evaluation and Drafting WR's.

 

[Pats1971]

Whether it be because of injury or PEDs Hopkins has missed on average 7 games a year the last 2 seasons.

So you are saying we should not have extended parker?

 

[Pats1971]

We replaced Jonnu with Gesicki. Upgrade
Meyers with Juju. I think Juju brings more big play ability but health and learning the offense is a ?
OT imo is the biggest ?
Let’s see if we get a 2nd year jump from Strong/Harris at rb.
The biggest upgrade will be going from MattyP to BoB. This cannot be understated.

If you fall apart chaning OC's then you are in trouble. I think people need to stop acting Like Bill O Brien is freaking Walsh coming in here with a never before seen west coast offense. Players have to execute, when they do it makes the Coaches look real good.

 

[Steve102]

This. Seems like BB goes out of his way to give perpetual middle finger to fans and media. This was tolerated during winning seasons but the shelf life is about to expire on this approach which stifles team morale and fan excitement. Sonetimes you can both improve the team and build excitement and buzz simultaneously.
BB without TB12 is one big wet blanket buzz kill who is being paid 20 musd per year for mediocrity

How do you know this? They have that locker room locked down tighter than Fort Knox. You're projecting your distaste for Bill onto all of it. Fan excitement comes down to one thing: winning football games. They lose, fans are unhappy. They win, fans are happy. You want to win the off-season? Go be a Jete fan. They are all about winning the back page.

 

[Wozzy]

is Wozzy still dieing on the hill that Kelce and Gesicki are the same talent levels?

Kelce is an great talent for a TE, for someone his size... what does that make Gesicki, or Henry for that matter?

I'll make it easy for you and highlight in red the best result from their combine/pro day measurables.

Travis Kelce 6-5 255 4.61 35.0 124 7.09 4.42
Hunter Henry 6-5 250 4.68 31.5 21 113 7.16 4.41
Mike Gesicki 6-5 247 4.54 41.5 22 129 6.76 4.10

Let's provide a little more perspective... long before PFR existed there was a website called nflcombineresults.com which tracked combine data. They provided combine data going back to 1987, almost forty years, and provided it in a spreadsheet form so you could toggle the top to find the best scores over that time period.

Over the last near forty years of the combine among TE's:

Gesicki had the 5th best three cone of all-time, 9th best shuttle, 5th best vertical leap... his 4.5 forty is also exceptional for his size, it makes him as fast as Ben Watson, Noah Fast, Kittle and other fast TE's but he's taller and longer than they are.

That's a near forty year sample size. is he talented?

Can exceptional talent overcome bad QB play or bad offense?

Ask Kyle Pitts last season.

 

[Grogan14]

They have not

How do you know this? They have that locker room locked down tighter than Fort Knox. You're projecting your distaste for Bill onto all of it. Fan excitement comes down to one thing: winning football games. They lose, fans are unhappy. They win, fans are happy. You want to win the off-season? Go be a Jete fan. They are all about winning the back page.

Not consistently winning since TB12 left. So whatever he is doing…its not working…and its not heading in the right direction.

This is an entertainment company at its core…to put on the field a losing team that has no dynamic exciting players is not a recipe for success

 

[Bill Lee]

I'll bet that the one thing most all of us would agree on is that BB's marketing skills are non-existent or even deliberately negative. Winning the DHop contest was obviously easily affordable would have made a huge difference in the fan base's excitement about the season and I suspect it would have helped with the team's morale as well.

I have no doubt Bill has some sort of cold calculus that said not to overpay DHop and he may even prove to have been correct, but it's astonishing that Kraft let him once again give the finger to the press and public's hopes.

Not only does Bill not give a sh*t about what any of us think, I believe he actually enjoys f*cking with us when (and while) he can.

He may have been right about DHop, but he'd better field a truly competitive team this year because the goodwill towards him is all but gone.

As the old saying goes, if you do what the fans in the stands want you to do, you end right up there with them.

Football ain't a popularity contest.

 

[h0c2000]

Mac is NOT going to win or lose games by himself.....nor will he ever.

That's right. He needs help from the play callers and Jakobi Meyers.

 

[Pape]

I don't think you got my point. EVERY player contributes to some degree on every play's success OR failure (or in between) I don't remember those specific plays you mention, but I imagine, if the blocking had held another half second, or the routes had been run better, or the call had been a more effective one, OR Mac had avoided the rush better, etc, etc, etc...the play would have been more successful.

I'm not saying that Mac is devoid of blame, but it is the NATURE of the game that everyone on the field is necessary to for it to succeed. You cannot simply blame one person for the result of a play. About the only exceptions I can think of off hand are a drop of a perfectly thrown pass, or a penalty called by a mental error. But even then you get into gray areas, like the infamous Welker drop in the superbowl. What percentage was Welker's for not catching a difficult throw that he makes MOST of the time, or how much goes to Brady for throwing it behind him. And more importantly WHO CARES. Making that catch might have won that game, but it certainly didn't LOSE it. Lots of plays could be listed.

With perfect 20-20 hindsight, we can review ANY game and come up with 3 or 4 key plays on which a game turns, the problem (and beauty) of with the game, is you never know when those plays are going to happen, let alone who to ascribe credit or blame. But there seems to be a sickness among fans that makes it imperative that INDIVIDUAL blame be assigned to a game who's very nature makes it almost impossible to to do that fairly.

Oh I got your point. It was stupid. But I got it.

I think you don't get mine.

Mac Jones has to win some ****ing games for this team, instead of puking away chances in the fourth quarter. Guys who are winners find a way to do what needs to be done. Mac has never done that. Never made the big throw. Never had that last second touchdown, never converted that 3rd and long when the game is on the line... he usually throws an interception or get sacked for -9 yards...

He needs to man up and make the throws when needed, he needs to learn how to get rid of the ball when he has to, he needs to learn how to read secondaries so he's throwing the ball to the guys who are open not the guys he wants to hit, which ultimately causes interceptions.

He needs to step up and win games.

Mac is two years in... Has he lead this team to one meaningful, significanty victory? The answer? That's one big fat No.

There's a reason Quarterbacks and Wins are synonymous. Don't like that idea it because its a "team" game, tough, learn to deal with that particular disappointment it because that's the way it is, and quite frankly its been like that for the last 30 years. The Mac Jones we've seen so far isn't a winner. He needs to do better. He needs to win games for this team.

 

[Steve102]

They have not

consistently winning since TB12 left. So whatever he is doing…its not working…and its not heading in the right direction.

This is an entertainment company at its core…to put on the field a losing team that has no dynamic exciting players is not a recipe for success

Based on last year, that's correct, they went backwards last year. This is 2023.

It feels like your meaning of exciting players is really limited to the WR position. I think the drafting of Gonzalez is that type of player, but he's on the wrong side of the ball for you. Judon is that type of player. Barmore might be that kind of player. Marcus Jones is that type of player.

 

[Steve102]

Oh I got your point. It was stupid. But I got it.

I think you don't get mine.

Mac Jones has to win some ****ing games for this team, instead of puking away chances in the fourth quarter. Guys who are winners find a way to do what needs to be done. Mac has never done that. Never made the big throw. Never had that last second touchdown, never converted that 3rd and long when the game is on the line... he usually throws an interception or get sacked for -9 yards...

He needs to man up and make the throws when needed, he needs to learn how to get rid of the ball when he has to, he needs to learn how to read secondaries so he's throwing the ball to the guys who are open not the guys he wants to hit, which ultimately causes interceptions.

He needs to step up and win games.

Mac is two years in... Has he lead this team to one meaningful, significanty victory? The answer? That's one big fat No.

There's a reason Quarterbacks and Wins are synonymous. Don't like that idea it because its a "team" game, tough, learn to deal with that particular disappointment it because that's the way it is, and quite frankly its been like that for the last 30 years. The Mac Jones we've seen so far isn't a winner. He needs to do better. He needs to win games for this team.

Yeah, it was, what, three games in to his career when The QB That Must Not Be Named had a 4th quarter comeback? San Diego? Mac needs to do that now. The training wheels need to come off.

 

[All3Phases]

Kelce is an great talent for a TE, for someone his size... what does that make Gesicki, or Henry for that matter?

I'll make it easy for you and highlight in red the best result from their combine/pro day measurables.

Travis Kelce 6-5 255 4.61 35.0 124 7.09 4.42
Hunter Henry 6-5 250 4.68 31.5 21 113 7.16 4.41
Mike Gesicki 6-5 247 4.54 41.5 22 129 6.76 4.10

Let's provide a little more perspective... long before PFR existed there was a website called nflcombineresults.com which tracked combine data. They provided combine data going back to 1987, almost forty years, and provided it in a spreadsheet form so you could toggle the top to find the best scores over that time period.

Over the last near forty years of the combine among TE's:

Gesicki had the 5th best three cone of all-time, 9th best shuttle, 5th best vertical leap... his 4.5 forty is also exceptional for his size, it makes him as fast as Ben Watson, Noah Fast, Kittle and other fast TE's but he's taller and longer than they are.

That's a near forty year sample size. is he talented?

Can exceptional talent overcome bad QB play or bad offense?

Ask Kyle Pitts last season.

Combine results doesnt make you similar players or talents. Kelce was great before Mahomes

 

[All3Phases]

Vikings continue to address foes constantly double-teaming star WR Justin Jefferson

Minnesota coach Kevin O’Connell said the star receiver was double covered all but about eight or nine snaps against Detroit.

www.twincities.com

An article from the Vikings organization on Jefferson being doubled constantly fyi

 

[PatsFan2]

There's maybe 3-4 WR's in the league that scare opposing coordinators.

Miami have Two of them and Tua no pun intended is still Undefeated against the BB Patriots.

 

[borg]

Yeah, it was, what, three games in to his career when The QB That Must Not Be Named had a 4th quarter comeback? San Diego? Mac needs to do that now. The training wheels need to come off.........

..........unless it's windy or a Hail Lateral is preferred over a 40 yd Hail Mary