Hopkins Headed to Tennessee

[TheRainMaker]

The Pats have solid-competent TE's. This should be the least of our worries. I think Gesicki will float under the radar and have a good season. But as many have been preaching since 2019, it comes down to these WR's who are among the worst in separating from DB's. There's a reason you hear week in and week out on the CBS/Fox/ESPN broadcasts where analysts repeat nobody on the Pats offense will keep defensive coordinators up at night. You can point to an OC change, but again, they struggled under McDaniels.

And this all could be a moot point if they can't get the T situation figured out, which is my biggest concern on the team.

 

[Kontradiction]

Would anybody even take Henry or Gesicki over Pitts or Engram?

 

[Wozzy]

You’re moving the goal posts. What I am or am not is irrelevant to whether or not Henry and Gesicki are “great” TEs.

Both guys in the best situations in their careers were "great," their situations were rarely great. Henry also dealt with some injuries but he has largely been an iron man in New England. They're great receiving TE's, they don't necessarily put up great stats.

The second paragraph does nothing to bolster your point that they are “great” TEs. Those are mere excuses to avoid admitting that maybe you’re a little too high on them.

Laughable... Mahomes is a magical creature who makes all things possible... but Kelce gains no benefit from that and Gesicki isn't minimized by Ryan Fitzpatrick... never mind the coaches and surrounding team?

QB's are magical creatures... right up until the point we need to say the Pat's aren't good enough.

The third paragraph? These two will have Mac Jones throwing the ball. You’ve recently said “Zappe is breathing down his neck.” Using that to bolster your argument that both are “great” TEs is odd, at best, and intellectually dishonest at worst.

I already said one of our QB's needs to provide a median level of production.

The fourth paragraph is, again, irrelevant. These are not great TEs. They’re not even top 5. Henry is a 2nd tier TE at best and Gesicki is a 3rd tier. They are what they are.

As I said, they’re still a good fit for the O and they’re one of the better TE rooms in the NFL, but nobody is putting them ahead of the Kelces, Kittles, Andrews, Wallers, Hockensens, and Goederts of the NFL. Kelce, Kittle, Andrews, Waller, and Goedert are the top 5. Kelce, Kittle, and Andrews are the top 3 (I.E., great). Who out of that list are you putting Henry or Gesicki over?

Every other team has great players, Patriots suck... this was said in 2014, 2016 and 2018.

Wait, before you say it, QB's have magic powers again.

 

[PatsFan2]

Would anybody even take Henry or Gesicki over Pitts or Engram?

 

[Wozzy]

Would anybody even take Henry or Gesicki over Pitts or Engram?

Pitts had 356 yards receiving and 2 TD's last year... was it Pitts or his situation?

 

[Wozzy]

Kelce's targets over the last five years:
2018 150
2019 136
2020 145
2021 134
2022 152

Mark Andrews targets over the last two years:
2021 153
2022 113

Mike Gesicki's career history in targets:
2018 32
2019 89
2020 85
2021 112
2022 52

Hunter Henry's career history in targets:
2016 53
2017 62
2019 76
2020 93
2021 75
2022 59

Receivers don't throw themselves the ball.

 

[PatsFan2]

Pitts had 356 yards receiving and 2 TD's last year... was it Pitts or his situation?

I'm taking the latter after that Rookie year.

 

[Wozzy]

I'm taking the latter after that Rookie year.

Exactly.

 

[crawhammer]

How many "great" TE's are there in the league... name them?

Great:

Travis Kelce
Mark Andrews
George Kittle

That I would take over Hunter Henry or Mike Gesicki (both of whom I like):

Travis Kelce
Mark Andrews
George Kittle
Dallas Goegert
Dalton Schultz
T.J. Hockenson
Darren Waller
Kyle Pitts

But heck, name ten?

This is easy...

WRs that scare DC's:

Tyreek Hill
Jaylen Waddle
Davante Adams
Ja'Marr Chase
Stefon Diggs
Justin Jefferson
Cooper Cupp
A.J. Brown
Deebo Samuel
D.K. Metcalf

And naming 10 more probably wouldn't be that difficult either.

 

[Wozzy]

Great:

Travis Kelce
Mark Andrews
George Kittle

That I would take over Hunter Henry or Mike Gesicki (both of whom I like):

Travis Kelce
Mark Andrews
George Kittle
Dallas Goegert
Dalton Schultz
T.J. Hockenson
Darren Waller
Kyle Pitts


This is easy...

WRs that scare DC's:

Tyreek Hill
Jaylen Waddle
Davante Adams
Ja'Marr Chase
Stefon Diggs
Justin Jefferson
Cooper Cupp
A.J. Brown
Deebo Samuel
D.K. Metcalf

And naming 10 more probably wouldn't be that difficult either.

Read previous posts before you post, all these names were said above.

 

[crawhammer]

Read previous posts before you post, all these names were said above.

Fine as long as we agree you made two (wildly) inaccurate statements...

They have two great TE's in Gesicki and Henry.

There's maybe 3-4 WR's in the league that scare opposing coordinators.

 

[PatsFan2]

The Pats have solid-competent TE's. This should be the least of our worries. I think Gesicki will float under the radar and have a good season. But as many have been preaching since 2019, it comes down to these WR's who are among the worst in separating from DB's. There's a reason you hear week in and week out on the CBS/Fox/ESPN broadcasts where analysts repeat nobody on the Pats offense will keep defensive coordinators up at night. You can point to an OC change, but again, they struggled under McDaniels.

And this all could be a moot point if they can't get the T situation figured out, which is my biggest concern on the team.

Offense full of complimentary types nobody stands out other than Rham. Don't think that will be enough to overcome this upcoming schedule. Unless they think DeVante Parker is more than I think he is.

 

[Wozzy]

Fine as long as we agree you made two (wildly) inaccurate statements...

Both were accurate. You tell us all things Patriots suck, if both these players were Chiefs you’d tell us how great they are… and their numbers would reflect their skill level.

 

[Kasmir]

I'll bet that the one thing most all of us would agree on is that BB's marketing skills are non-existent or even deliberately negative. Winning the DHop contest was obviously easily affordable would have made a huge difference in the fan base's excitement about the season and I suspect it would have helped with the team's morale as well.

I have no doubt Bill has some sort of cold calculus that said not to overpay DHop and he may even prove to have been correct, but it's astonishing that Kraft let him once again give the finger to the press and public's hopes.

Not only does Bill not give a sh*t about what any of us think, I believe he actually enjoys f*cking with us when (and while) he can.

He may have been right about DHop, but he'd better field a truly competitive team this year because the goodwill towards him is all but gone.

 

[All3Phases]

Tyreek, Metcalf maybe and Devante Adams get special attention.

The rest get your best CB and nothing else changes.

Imagine saying Justin Jefferson doesnt get special attention? Cannot tell if your post was satire or not

 

[All3Phases]

Laughable... Mahomes is a magical creature who makes all things possible... but Kelce gains no benefit from that and Gesicki isn't minimized by Ryan Fitzpatrick... never mind the coaches and surrounding team?

So is Gesicki and Henry gaining the benefit of Mahomes and Reid?

Nonetheless, Kelce was a first team all pro in 2016, had over 1000 yards in 16 and 17. He was a 1 time first team AP and 3x pro bowler before Mahomes stepped on the field. So your point is a little Wobbly

 

[RIpats88]

is Wozzy still dieing on the hill that Kelce and Gesicki are the same talent levels?

 

[patfanken]

Ken i respectfully disagree that its ludicrous to state that Mac needs to win games - because that is exactly what Mac being better means.

Mac can'thave a fourth quarter like he did vs the ravens...
Mac can't take a ten yard sack with a minute left, down by 7, like he did vs the vikings... Hes got to make a play, even if its throwing it away...
Mac can't go one for four in the final minute, like he did versus the raiders... he's got to put the ball in play where the receivers can get it...

Those were three winnable games... the difference between 8-9 and 11-6... Im sorry but I don't know how else to term it besides Mac needs to step up and make those throw and win those games.

I don't think you got my point. EVERY player contributes to some degree on every play's success OR failure (or in between) I don't remember those specific plays you mention, but I imagine, if the blocking had held another half second, or the routes had been run better, or the call had been a more effective one, OR Mac had avoided the rush better, etc, etc, etc...the play would have been more successful.

I'm not saying that Mac is devoid of blame, but it is the NATURE of the game that everyone on the field is necessary to for it to succeed. You cannot simply blame one person for the result of a play. About the only exceptions I can think of off hand are a drop of a perfectly thrown pass, or a penalty called by a mental error. But even then you get into gray areas, like the infamous Welker drop in the superbowl. What percentage was Welker's for not catching a difficult throw that he makes MOST of the time, or how much goes to Brady for throwing it behind him. And more importantly WHO CARES. Making that catch might have won that game, but it certainly didn't LOSE it. Lots of plays could be listed.

With perfect 20-20 hindsight, we can review ANY game and come up with 3 or 4 key plays on which a game turns, the problem (and beauty) of with the game, is you never know when those plays are going to happen, let alone who to ascribe credit or blame. But there seems to be a sickness among fans that makes it imperative that INDIVIDUAL blame be assigned to a game who's very nature makes it almost impossible to to do that fairly.

 

[PatsFan2]

I'll bet that the one thing most all of us would agree on is that BB's marketing skills are non-existent or even deliberately negative. Winning the DHop contest was obviously easily affordable would have made a huge difference in the fan base's excitement about the season and I suspect it would have helped with the team's morale as well.

I have no doubt Bill has some sort of cold calculus that said not to overpay DHop and he may even prove to have been correct, but it's astonishing that Kraft let him once again give the finger to the press and public's hopes.

Not only does Bill not give a sh*t about what any of us think, I believe he actually enjoys f*cking with us when (and while) he can.

He may have been right about DHop, but he'd better field a truly competitive team this year because the goodwill towards him is all but gone.

I think D-Hop would have made this cast much better especially Juju. IF D-Hop makes former First Rounder Treylon Burks better in Tennessee BB made a foolish decision we had the $$$$. Some will disagree with this but most of BB's decisions on the Offensive side seems to think that #12 is still back there. The game may be passing him by the Patriots are not keeping up literally or figuratively. Another mediocre season might be on tap pray for injuries to the opposing Teams might be our only chance now.

 

[PatsFan2]

Imagine saying Justin Jefferson doesnt get special attention? Cannot tell if your post was satire or not

I am sure Josh Allen was watching the D-Hop sweepstakes and when he saw he signed with Tennessee he checked off two wins against the Patriots on his calendar.