How Good Does Mac Have To Be To Get His Option Picked Up?

[Wozzy]

You can't predict every late round draft pick will be successful just because Owenu was. The Pats draft history has lots of hits and misses in this area. It doesn't matter if Anderson is only 26. Myles Bryant is young too and nobody is banking on him. There's a reason Reiff got 1 year 5 5M.

If you want to crown this line go for it. I'm waiting to see them prove it.

Anderson is young and talented, Sow is also, Trent Brown and Reiff are known commodities who have proven they can play.

The Pat's are better off at OT than they were in 2019 for example with Wynn and an ancient Cannon... they ended up playing castoff Marshall Newhouse all season. I'm not crowning anything, they need to stay healthy... that describes every position group on the team.

 

[sb1]

I want to see Mac lead an offense that can be consistently good against good teams. Or pick up the team when the defense is not having a good day.

Barring injury I don't want to see Zappe start ever again for this team so if Mac proves he can't do this that's a huge step backwards in this rebuild.

 

[captain stone]

I want to see Mac lead an offense that can be consistently good against good teams. Or pick up the team when the defense is not having a good day.

Barring injury I don't want to see Zappe start ever again for this team so if Mac proves he can't do this that's a huge step backwards in this rebuild.

I want to see the better QB start... If it's Zappy then so be it.

 

[sb1]

I want to see the better QB start... If it's Zappy then so be it.

I meant to add assuming all things being equal coming out of last season. If Zappe beats Mac for his job then IMO the Patriots are not in a good place QB-wise. But if Zappe somehow developed a great arm this winter then let's see what he's got.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I want to see the better QB start... If it's Zappy then so be it.

Sshhhhhhhhhhhhh

there's nothing wrong with Zappe's arm

 

[RIpats88]

Agree. This is what I’m looki


I didn’t say he should play for free, I said I wouldn’t give $40 million per to an average QB. And I would not stop looking for a franchise QB until I found one.

I'm just saying thats sadly what the going price for an average QB goes for now. I think we should keep looking for a franchise QB.

but there are also other factors at play here. Bill is on his last legs and wants that shula record. If Mac is even just an average QB and can win 8-10 games a year that gets bill their quicker than going back to rebuild and winning 4-5 games...

 

[Ivan]

I'm just saying thats sadly what the going price for an average QB goes for now. I think we should keep looking for a franchise QB.

but there are also other factors at play here. Bill is on his last legs and wants that shula record. If Mac is even just an average QB and can win 8-10 games a year that gets bill their quicker than going back to rebuild and winning 4-5 games...

I think Belichick would like the wins record, but he’s not behaving like it in terms of his decision making. If it were Parcells he would have destroyed their salary cap and future to win now, instead Belichick is building systematically with the best overall interests of the team in mind. And I don’t believe he will hang on forever just to reach it. I think he has a succession plan and he will stick to it.

As for Jones I think Belichick will continue to draft QB’s, just as he did with Brady and won’t give him whatever they ask for out of desperation. Like every other free agent they have had he will set their value and adhere to that number. If that means turning the team over to Zappe or bringing in a free agent he will do that. And I don’t see him giving Jones 40 million per unless he turns into a QB at least as good as Joe Burrows, if he’s comparable to Daniel Jones he won’t give him anywhere near that $$$. That’s how I see it, we will see what happens? If nothing else this is going to be a fascinating season.

 

[RIpats88]

I think Belichick would like the wins record, but he’s not behaving like it in terms of his decision making. If it were Parcells he would have destroyed their salary cap and future to win now, instead Belichick is building systematically with the best overall interests of the team in mind. And I don’t believe he will hang on forever just to reach it. I think he has a succession plan and he will stick to it.

As for Jones I think Belichick will continue to draft QB’s, just as he did with Brady and won’t give him whatever they ask for out of desperation. Like every other free agent they have had he will set their value and adhere to that number. If that means turning the team over to Zappe or bringing in a free agent he will do that. And I don’t see him giving Jones 40 million per unless he turns into a QB at least as good as Joe Burrows, if he’s comparable to Daniel Jones he won’t give him anywhere near that $$$. That’s how I see it, we will see what happens? If nothing else this is going to be a fascinating season.

I never said don't stop drafting QB's. i'm just saying if the philosphy going forward is "dont pay the going rate for any QB not the caliber of Joe Burrows" the Patriots are going to be a lottery team for a long time. Those guys don't grow on trees, so if you refuse to pay the market rate on what is an average QB then you are going to be in the bottom of the league, switching QB's every 3-4 years, hoping you draft a top QB and they can be one of the top QB's in the league...

That is the league now, we need to stop hanging on to notions/payscales from 20 years ago.

I mean basically you are saying if Mac jones is say of Kirk Cousins or a Tua or Tannehill, Daniel Jones. just keep letting them go and going into the lottery because they arent "elite"? to me that just seems such a poor way of building a team. and thats hoping the year you tank there is that kind of QB talent there to draft...

id rather be like Kansas city. paying Alex Jones (an average quarterback) being a competitive playoff team while continually drafting and ending up with Patrick Mahomes.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Personnel, talent from college, potential trades and free agency are highly volatile and unpredictable.

The best approach is to exercise awareness, attention, open mindedness and assertiveness.

Coach Belichick obviously really did this early on here. I think he doesn't surround himself today with enough support in the form of scouts and advisors. He's still obviously talented in many areas.

 

[crawhammer]

I think Belichick would like the wins record, but he’s not behaving like it in terms of his decision making.

He's not making decisions with the intent of winning more games?? Seems counterintuitive. Ironically I think the results bare some unintentional truth to your comment.

If it were Parcells he would have destroyed their salary cap and future to win now, instead Belichick is building systematically with the best overall interests of the team in mind.

I thought the Patriots were "rebuilding" because BB went all in for championships during Brady's last few seasons? Isn't that supposedly why we suffered through 2020 with Cam? And don't forget to punt the 2022 season... free pass for everyone including BB. After all he identified the problem and got rid of it.

Let's smack Parcells around some more too. The stiff only made 4 different franchises relevant again. But seriously, Parcells always surrounded himself with upper tier coordinators and assistants. Belichick... not so much.

 

[PScottman]

To me, picking up the option does NOT rule out trying to find a QB. It is insurance policy and competition for the new QB (s).

100% accurate. The decision isn't just the option - it's the costs of replacement - and that's not just the monetary component that has to be considered.

What would it cost to draft a replacement? Do they develop? Can they be coached? Are they a system fit?

Sign one in free agency? At what contract to entice? Do they want to sign here? Are they a good system fit?

Trade for one? Who trades good QBs? Are they even available for trade? How many players/picks/$ would it take?

All of those things take most of the decision making out of your control and place it with either someone else's or worse with blind chance/luck.

This isn't saying that it should be automatic to pick up the option, but there are WAY more variables than just football statistics in that decision making process.

 

[Ivan]

He's not making decisions with the intent of winning more games?? Seems counterintuitive. Ironically I think the results bare some unintentional truth to your comment.


I thought the Patriots were "rebuilding" because BB went all in for championships during Brady's last few seasons? Isn't that supposedly why we suffered through 2020 with Cam? And don't forget to punt the 2022 season... free pass for everyone including BB. After all he identified the problem and got rid of it.

Let's smack Parcells around some more too. The stiff only made 4 different franchises relevant again. But seriously, Parcells always surrounded himself with upper tier coordinators and assistants. Belichick... not so much.

Belichick clearly isn’t emptying the cupboards to try and win 14 games and a Lombardi this season, and yes, Parcells would be doing just that, and screwing them for the future if f he was in this position. And I’m not a Parcells hater by any means, he’s a HOF coach, and deservedly so, but Parcells didn’t look beyond the current season, and he blew uo the cap everywhere he went. But hey, at least this gave you something else to cry about. It’s been at least a few days since you had a good cry, so I’m glad you could get that out.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Belichick clearly isn’t emptying the cupboards to try and win 14 games and a Lombardi this season

Although some offseasons he make more noise than others, Belichick emphasizes a long term view, a philosophical consistent approach and a one game at a time mentality. Of course, this often runs counter to the emotional and physical realities of the sport - obviously, some moments and games are much more important than others - which results in advantages and sometimes, unfortunately, disadvantages, like failing to rise to an obvious occasion because you're treating it like any other game even though it isn't.

 

[Ivan]

Although some offseasons he make more noise than others, Belichick emphasizes a long term view, a philosophical consistent approach and a one game at a time mentality. Of course, this often runs counter to the emotional and physical realities of the sport - obviously, some moments and games are much more important than others - which results in advantages and sometimes, unfortunately, disadvantages, like failing to rise to an obvious occasion because you're treating it like any other game even though it isn't.

I believe that if Belichick was looking primarily at breaking the wins record he would have made a serious moves to bring in Lamar Jackson and WR’s like Jeudy or Hopkins, to win as many games as soon as possible. Instead he spent lightly in free agency, and stuck with his young QB’s. I think he’s trying to build systematically to a team that will contend season after season, instead of loading up to win now. And I think he will retire before reaching the wins record, with Mayo replacing him as head coach, and Groh taking over football operations. They will also try to keep Wolf around through a promotion and raise, but he could leave for greener pastures.

 

[archstanton543]

And I think he will retire before reaching the wins record, with Mayo replacing him as head coach, and Groh taking over football operations.

Nope. As a football historian, he's going to want that record. He will stick around for as long as that takes. (Two or three seasons tops)

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

how good does mac have to be to stop having this discussion .... this cunningham will be the new michael bishop and people will say he shpuld start... let mac play this year and see how it goes

 

[crawhammer]

Belichick clearly isn’t emptying the cupboards to try and win 14 games and a Lombardi this season, and yes, Parcells would be doing just that

Just look at your statement here... I'm summarize: Belichick isn't trying to win a Lombardi this season but Parcells would be doing just that. Well, sign me up for the latter, because going for a Lombardi seems like a better idea to me.

So how many games is Belichick trying to win this season? Clearly not 14 as you say. So how many?... 10? 8? 6? What's the goal for 2023? Possibly compete for the 7th seed? LFG??

I remember a time, in fact an era, when the Patriots were trying to win as many games as possible every single season, with a specific eye on winning it all each season. Was there one season Brady started in a Patriots uniform where you said the team wasn't trying to win a Lombardi? After all, isn't the point?

Brady leaves and suddenly the team's in a 3-year rebuild mode. Problem is the 3-year timeframe keeps getting reset. 2020 "didn't count" with Cam. 2021 seemed like an obvious full steam ahead on the rebuild with the enormous amount of money spent and the 1st round quarterback. Then 2022 came with Patricia which apparently has put the team back to square one for 2023. So here we are I guess starting over AGAIN. I wonder what the excuses will be after another 8-win season.

And I know I chopped off your...

and screwing them for the future if he was in this position.

...because this part is hardly a given. We can get into the details if you want but Parcells did not leave his teams in tatters... none of the 4 teams he left had a losing record the season after he left, 2 had a better record, and 2 won their division. Parcells was a brilliant head coach and team builder.

 

[Ivan]

Just look at your statement here... I'm summarize: Belichick isn't trying to win a Lombardi this season but Parcells would be doing just that. Well, sign me up for the latter, because going for a Lombardi seems like a better idea to me.

So how many games is Belichick trying to win this season? Clearly not 14 as you say. So how many?... 10? 8? 6? What's the goal for 2023? Possibly compete for the 7th seed? LFG??

I remember a time, in fact an era, when the Patriots were trying to win as many games as possible every single season, with a specific eye on winning it all each season. Was there one season Brady started in a Patriots uniform where you said the team wasn't trying to win a Lombardi? After all, isn't the point?

Brady leaves and suddenly the team's in a 3-year rebuild mode. Problem is the 3-year timeframe keeps getting reset. 2020 "didn't count" with Cam. 2021 seemed like an obvious full steam ahead on the rebuild with the enormous amount of money spent and the 1st round quarterback. Then 2022 came with Patricia which apparently has put the team back to square one for 2023. So here we are I guess starting over AGAIN. I wonder what the excuses will be after another 8-win season.

And I know I chopped off your...

...because this part is hardly a given. We can get into the details if you want but Parcells did not leave his teams in tatters... none of the 4 teams he left had a losing record the season after he left, 2 had a better record, and 2 won their division. Parcells was a brilliant head coach and team builder.

Complete straw man argument. Every team is trying to win as many games as possible, and if possible a Lombardi, but there is an obvious difference between to franchises that go all in to try and win a Lombardi that season (e.g. the Rams in 2021) and those that try to build systematically to contend for the long run( e.g..Pittsburgh). You know this, but are clearly trying to pretend otherwise. If Belichick was going for one moreLombardi and the wins record he could have traded away future high picks, and emptied their cap for the coming seasons to bring in the players that would have made them a serious contender this year and next. He didn’t do that, instead they have a ton of cap room going forward, and all their picks in coming drafts.

As far as Parcells teams go he built them to win now, so it’s no surprise they were still good the year after he left, but none of them won anything for years after he left. He was a great coach, but everyone knows how he operated, which wasn’t for the long run, and Belichick is the opposite of that, which is why the just had the only Dynasty’s of the salary cap era, and won 6 Lombardi’s.

As for this discussion with you, I’m done with it. There are many poster’s here who are critical of Belichick and the team that I’m fine with, Sam Bam is an example of this, he’s critical but still rational, so it’s possible to have a discussion with him. U fortunately you are in the category with Triumph, Captain Stone, 1960 Pats Fan, and some others whose only contributions here are endless negativity, whining, and misery, and I have little patience or tolerance for people who are completely miserable all the time. You obviously have the right to be just as miserable as you want, as do the others, but I’m not interested in discussing anything with people like that. So Adios.

 

[crawhammer]

If Belichick was going for one more Lombardi and the wins record he could have traded away future high picks, and emptied their cap for the coming seasons to bring in the players that would have made them a serious contender this year and next. He didn’t do that, instead they have a ton of cap room going forward, and all their picks in coming drafts.

Firstly, I'm not opposed to Belichick "going for one more Lombardi" in whatever form that takes. I don't care about his wins record. But another Lombardi would be great. I've got news for you though, Belichick is not in the midst of building another dynasty. Too many misses in the draft and free agency. The new "franchise" quarterback isn't good enough, neither is his supporting cast, and the league is currently stacked with teams who have elite quarterbacks and at least above average supporting casts.

So yeah, go after Hopkins at the expense of future capital, especially now that you've apparently hitched your wagon to Mac Jones... he needs all the help he can get. BB didn't do Mac any favors in the draft either. And I'm not so sure Mac is doing cartwheels over JuJu being brought in as a replacement for Meyers who undoubtedly was Mac's most reliable receiver. So there's not another dynasty in their future but I'll take an all in run at another Super Bowl. Problem with that is you have to get it completely right (like the 2021 Rams) and I'm not the sort of IBWT guy to think he can do it (especially at this latter stage of his dwindling career).

 

[Real fan 02]

Personnel, talent from college, potential trades and free agency are highly volatile and unpredictable.

The best approach is to exercise awareness, attention, open mindedness and assertiveness.

Coach Belichick obviously really did this early on here. I think he doesn't surround himself today with enough support in the form of scouts and advisors. He's still obviously talented in many areas.

Great points,

As far as the scouts, it was reported he did alot of ignoring the scouts and therefore resulted in poor drafting. Since it was reported that it's a collaraborate approach with the draft now we seem to be hitting more on players. What I never understood was teams heavily rely on information from the scouts.. so why ignore them? They are some of most important people in an organization.