Jayson Tatum is still overrated

[Kdo5]

I'm not betting against him or the team.
Long way to go won't be easy but never is

I think their best basketball is ahead of them.

 

[jimnance]

Umm whatever. Tatum was junk last year vs GS in the Finals. Has he proven he's by that?

He's a stat guy, but this year, he's not top 5, 7 OK.

Advanced stats and my eyes don't agree. Although Brown really regressed on D this year however.

Regular season -yes. Playoffs?


When the chips are down he's not as accomplished as when its a normal situation. He's not a Big Papi, Brady, Bird, Russell. Might he become one? We'll see.

Bird? Russell? You're talking 2 of the greatest nba players all time, not just Celtics. Ease up on the expectations.
He's improved every year. Celtics don't beat Atlanta w/o Tatum.
Let's see how the Philly series goes.
One at a time.

 

[duc359]

Bird? Russell? You're talking 2 of the greatest nba players all time, not just Celtics. Ease up on the expectations.
He's improved every year. Celtics don't beat Atlanta w/o Tatum.
Let's see how the Philly series goes.
One at a time.

Beat up Embiid, better take care of business. This years C's are the deepest team, and like the great '86 and '08 teams, get bored at times. But those teams proved their mettle. If we go thru the next 3 teams in 5, 5, 6, and Tatum leads the way when the chips are down I will be satisfied that they should be welcome as a great C's team, and that Tatum has arrived as a top 3-4. He was probably 1-2 after 25 games this season, but since then he is no way in the top 6, and by advanced stats, not even top 10. Injury, ennui?

I brought up Bird, Russell, KG, JH, Cowens because I saw them all. Tatum is there by mid career talent wise, but for the Celtics isn't the true test the final result? If they don't make it through to win, will it be talent, injury, coaching, individual failure, or a better team but with less talent? We will see. No question I would love to be proven wrong in my doubts with Tatum leading the way to 3 titles and top 20 all time status? Sign me up.

 

[jimnance]

Beat up Embiid, better take care of business. This years C's are the deepest team, and like the great '86 and '08 teams, get bored at times. But those teams proved their mettle. If we go thru the next 3 teams in 5, 5, 6, and Tatum leads the way when the chips are down I will be satisfied that they should be welcome as a great C's team, and that Tatum has arrived as a top 3-4. He was probably 1-2 after 25 games this season, but since then he is no way in the top 6, and by advanced stats, not even top 10. Injury, ennui?

I brought up Bird, Russell, KG, JH, Cowens because I saw them all. Tatum is there by mid career talent wise, but for the Celtics isn't the true test the final result? If they don't make it through to win, will it be talent, injury, coaching, individual failure, or a better team but with less talent? We will see. No question I would love to be proven wrong in my doubts with Tatum leading the way to 3 titles and top 20 all time status? Sign me up.

I also saw them all. Saw Russell vs Wilt live at the Garden. Cowens remains one of my all time favorite C's. Playing against centers that had 4''-6" over him every night and he dominated them with pure grit,will,toughness and skill.
No the 2023 team is not in the class of any of those teams. They need to win at least one title to even be in the conversation. Golden State is lurking but beating Philly and Miami won't be easy.
Main thing is no major injuries to key players.

 

[duc359]

I also saw them all. Saw Russell vs Wilt live at the Garden. Cowens remains one of my all time favorite C's. Playing against centers that had 4''-6" over him every night and he dominated them with pure grit,will,toughness and skill.
No the 2023 team is not in the class of any of those teams. They need to win at least one title to even be in the conversation. Golden State is lurking but beating Philly and Miami won't be easy.
Main thing is no major injuries to key players.

Early on Cowens lived at Stearns Hill in Waltham and used to do his own laundry at the Wal-Lex. I used to go over there all the time to try and run into him. I did it twice, I begged him to shoot around over at Graverson, but he wouldn't of course. My uncle gave me a poster of Russell when I was 10, I got my Cowens poster at 14. I was crushed when JH got hurt and they lost in to the Knicks with the best team record ever.

Anyhow, it is a tough road to be a Celtic if you don't win.

Those that picked on Fitch, the modern analog is Coach T, along with KG the main driver of the '07-'08 team. He did a good job with the Knicks this year. Watching him and Spol was likely to be more instructional than what we'll see vs the 76'ers.

I would say the C's have a fairly easy path to the Finals. Got the best match in Round 1. Had the Bucks knocked away. Get the 76'ers with a tired and now injured Embiid. Butler and co. tough, but, how much will they have left? Knicks could be tougher due to depth. Should not lose either Series - on paper.

 

[Kdo5]

Beat up Embiid, better take care of business. This years C's are the deepest team, and like the great '86 and '08 teams, get bored at times. But those teams proved their mettle. If we go thru the next 3 teams in 5, 5, 6, and Tatum leads the way when the chips are down I will be satisfied that they should be welcome as a great C's team, and that Tatum has arrived as a top 3-4. He was probably 1-2 after 25 games this season, but since then he is no way in the top 6, and by advanced stats, not even top 10. Injury, ennui?

I brought up Bird, Russell, KG, JH, Cowens because I saw them all. Tatum is there by mid career talent wise, but for the Celtics isn't the true test the final result? If they don't make it through to win, will it be talent, injury, coaching, individual failure, or a better team but with less talent? We will see. No question I would love to be proven wrong in my doubts with Tatum leading the way to 3 titles and top 20 all time status? Sign me up.

Does it really matter how many games it takes to win? A series victory is a series victory whether it takes four games or seven.

 

[jimnance]

Early on Cowens lived at Stearns Hill in Waltham and used to do his own laundry at the Wal-Lex. I used to go over there all the time to try and run into him. I did it twice, I begged him to shoot around over at Graverson, but he wouldn't of course. My uncle gave me a poster of Russell when I was 10, I got my Cowens poster at 14. I was crushed when JH got hurt and they lost in to the Knicks with the best team record ever.

Anyhow, it is a tough road to be a Celtic if you don't win.

Those that picked on Fitch, the modern analog is Coach T, along with KG the main driver of the '07-'08 team. He did a good job with the Knicks this year. Watching him and Spol was likely to be more instructional than what we'll see vs the 76'ers.

I would say the C's have a fairly easy path to the Finals. Got the best match in Round 1. Had the Bucks knocked away. Get the 76'ers with a tired and now injured Embiid. Butler and co. tough, but, how much will they have left? Knicks could be tougher due to depth. Should not lose either Series - on paper.

Loved Coach T. Was a huge part of that Championship. Knew he was leaving for a HC gig, guy was just too talented but still hurt when he left.
We've been lucky with our recent run of HCs: Rivers and Stevens outstanding,so was Udoka despite his dumbass off the court moves. Mazzula has been decent considering the circumstances when he took over. He is not afraid to confront anyone when necessary, incl Tatum and Brown. He's young but had great mentors. Spoelstra was no great shakes in his 1st HC season at a young age and he's one of the best on the planet now

 

[duc359]

Read somewhere dealing Brown for Towns if he won't re-sign. I'd rather have Siakim, a good 3 and D wing, and a #5-8 range pick in the next draft for Brown and Smart.

Does it really matter how many games it takes to win? A series victory is a series victory whether it takes four games or seven.

winning is the thing, but not exposing guys to more risk of getting injured or tired has value. Winning Game 5 vs the Hawks would have gotten them Embiid sooner, and not given tape of them using the "prevent" offense, to blow another lead, and is nice for the confidence too.

If they win the title 7, 7, 7, then we can all do the narrative of how they refused to lose.

 

[duc359]

Tatum had maybe his best Quarter of the year in the 2nd tonight. Very impressive.

 

[Tunescribe]

I think their best basketball is ahead of them.

OK. When is it supposed to start?

 

[Kdo5]

OK. When is it supposed to start?

Yeah about that…

To me Tatum and Brogdon were the only bright spots in that game. And unfortunately despite Brogdon’s performance he made the most critical turnover of all at the end.

Defense can’t seem to get it together and it really feels like it’s an effort thing. In particular it is upsetting how, despite his excellent athleticism, Brown plays subpar defense.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I thought the NBA got rid of the horrible bracket format years years ago. What a terrible disadvantage for the #2 Celtics to be playing the #3 76ers with two lower seeds playing each other.

The Nuggets should not be playing the #4 seed Suns. #7 Lakers should not be playing the #6 Warriors.

What is the point of teams doing well in the regular season just to play the lowest seed one time?

This is bad for the NBA.

 

[duc359]

Sloppy O and not in playoff intensity on D in the second half.

Yeah about that…

To me Tatum and Brogdon were the only bright spots in that game. And unfortunately despite Brogdon’s performance he made the most critical turnover of all at the end.

Defense can’t seem to get it together and it really feels like it’s an effort thing. In particular it is upsetting how, despite his excellent athleticism, Brown plays subpar defense.

Brown was a D stud early on, then he played D when needed. But, its obvious to get a max pay day you have to score big in the NBA. If he was an ace defender but averaged 15.5 PG, he might get $22.5M per. But he's a 25 PPG guy and people ignore the TO's and wave at the guy D because he also pushes the action and is exciting. He figures Smart and White and sometimes Brogdon will do the job, or Robbie will save him at the rim. Good figuring, but you need a Coach to point out what the team needs in the playoffs - and that it outweighs his individual concerns.

Not a coherent team, a collection of the best talent in the NBA. I miss Udoka. I wish for a Spol or a Thibs. Rivers was out of the K.C. school - stay calm, lay down the rules quietly. - Thibs and KG conspired to make that '07-'08 team what it was IMO, and Rivers was cool with that. Mazzulla is clearly a smart guy, a guy focused on O, and he's got no top kick to lay down the bottom line, and he's NOT an Alpha. Hence a power vacuum.

Someone please disprove this! Not you guys - the team.

 

[aluminum seats]

Does it really matter how many games it takes to win? A series victory is a series victory whether it takes four games or seven.

It's a matter of fatigue. Last year it seemed like the Celtics ran out of gas. The quicker they dispatch teams the more rested they'll be.

 

[aluminum seats]

I thought the NBA got rid of the horrible bracket format years years ago. What a terrible disadvantage for the #2 Celtics to be playing the #3 76ers with two lower seeds playing each other.

The Nuggets should not be playing the #4 seed Suns. #7 Lakers should not be playing the #6 Warriors.

What is the point of teams doing well in the regular season just to play the lowest seed one time?

This is bad for the NBA.

Agree 100%

 

[1960Pats]

i specifically said i do not want to get rid of him and i also understand he is the central piece, I'm not an idiot (dont say it). All i am saying is he does not have that killer instinct to carry a team on his back.

It appears that way. I heard that he didn't come out and face the press after his stinkjob in game 2. If that's true it says a lot about his lack of leadership. Does anyone doubt that he would have been very talkative if he had a great game?

From the beginning I've said that I liked Jaylon Brown's game better. That hasn't changed.

 

[1960Pats]

Agree 100% on every point.^^^^
Yes Tatum sucked in game 5. Yes Jaylen Brown is more fun to watch. I love both of em. But like the clown OP who created this extremely basketball- ignorant post, some of these posters have absolutely no clue what the hell they're talking about.
Tatum is absolutely a top 5 nbaer and the best player on the team. And it's not close. He probably deserves 1st team All Defense. He was easily the 2nd best defensive player on the C's in 2023 after the Time Lord. Better than Marcus Smart.
He has improved his game every year.
I love Jaylen Brown on and off the court. Probably the C I'd most like to hang out and have a beer with.Probably the best 2guard in the nba. But I'm under no illusions who the most valuable C is.
These clowns knocking Tatum sound like a bunch of Boston trash sports talk radio moron listeners. Same ones always whining about the Pats and Belichick.

Tatum has sucked in a hell of a lot more big games than game 5 of the last series. He had an epic choke job in the last game too and then didn't have the balls to face the music.
The clowns who think Tatum's a top 5 NBA player are the same ones who think Belichick made a smart move dumping Brady with no backup QB in sight.

 

[1960Pats]

Fitch sucked. 2nd worst Celtics coach after Pitino.
What you meant to say was maybe they need a little Udoka no- nonsense accountability. I'm not so sure. Mazzula has done a decent job especially considering he was thrust into it at the last minute.
Celtics would roll Denver. Warriors are and always have been the one opponent in the C's way. I hope both teams make it to the Finals. Would be a helluva series.
Different result this time but a tough series.

The good thing about Fitch was that he'd never take his foot off the gas at the end of games. The C's were a bettor's dream in those days. Between the C's, Lakers and Sixers there were a few dollars to be made. Luckily I stopped betting soon after.

Mazzula may not be ready for a HC job. Time will tell when we see how he handles the playoffs. Right now he seems to have a bit of the dear in the headlights look about him.

 

[1960Pats]

Because Tatum isn't rising to the occasion, plus you can get a boatload. Fans would go crazy of course and he's embraced as the guy - easy to see that. Also easy to see Grant regressed and is immature, he won't be back. Pritchard will be gone unless they move Smart. They have no real way to replace Horford. Draft won't be a help, and if Brown gets named, not sure the C's will give him the max, if not, he's gone. Therefore, our very good GM has to figure it out. The two headed thing with Brown as the Jr partner doesn't seem like a long term stable situation. If Robbie is not healthy going forward thats another massive problem.

When Tatum in on, he is easily the most skilled Celt I've seen in the last 55 years. I would love to see him as the KG, Bird, Cowens, John, Russell. The most talented PG we ever had was Irving, but, he was worse for the C's than Rowe, Wicks, and Wiggle combined. Not saying Tatum is Irving for goodness sakes, but he's not those other guys, not yet. He's got 7-8 prime years left... time is ticking.

Are you serious? 55 years takes us back to 1978. The idea that Tatum the whiner is even in the same ball park as KG, Bird, Cowens, Bird or Russell (the greatest player to ever play) is downright laughable.

As for point guards, I always liked Tiny Archibald's game. However, in todays glorified version of H-O-R-S-E he wouldn't fit. His specialty was taking the ball to the basket, forcing the big guy underneath to foul him and then making the layup too. That's was the way you made 3 pointers back then.

 

[1960Pats]

Beat up Embiid, better take care of business. This years C's are the deepest team, and like the great '86 and '08 teams, get bored at times. But those teams proved their mettle. If we go thru the next 3 teams in 5, 5, 6, and Tatum leads the way when the chips are down I will be satisfied that they should be welcome as a great C's team, and that Tatum has arrived as a top 3-4. He was probably 1-2 after 25 games this season, but since then he is no way in the top 6, and by advanced stats, not even top 10. Injury, ennui?

I brought up Bird, Russell, KG, JH, Cowens because I saw them all. Tatum is there by mid career talent wise, but for the Celtics isn't the true test the final result? If they don't make it through to win, will it be talent, injury, coaching, individual failure, or a better team but with less talent? We will see. No question I would love to be proven wrong in my doubts with Tatum leading the way to 3 titles and top 20 all time status? Sign me up.

I don't get the love for Tatum. He makes far too many boneheaded plays to be considered great. Maybe it's a media creation.

I haven't watched a hell of a lot of games recently, but I can't tell you how many times I've see Tatum saunter down the court after a rebound, never even look at anyone else and then throw up a brick from 3-point land. Usually the result would be a long rebound and a fast break layup for the other team while Tatum is arguing with the ref looking for a call to bail him out. That's about as close as he gets to LeBrick James.