BB THE GOAT

[Wozzy]

What’s a franchise caliber coach?

I’m using the forum as it was created

I am 100% willing to listen, not sure where I gave you the vibe that I wasn’t listening? I’ve never told you that you were wrong have I?

what facts did I ignore?

I tried to ask you nicely to walk away, your opinion that the winningest coach in history is an idiot who backed into unprecedented success is dumber than a bag of bildos.

I literally walked away from this conversation two days ago, but you couldn't stand the idea someone wasn't willing to engage in this douchebaggery. So here's what I'd suggest....

 

[All3Phases]

I tried to tell you nicely to walk away, your opinion that the winningest coach in history is an idiot who backed into unprecedented success is dumber than a bag of bildos.

I literally walked away from this conversation two days ago, but you couldn't stand the idea someone wasn't willing to engage in this douchebaggery. So here's what I'd suggest....

nobody forced you to respond. Don’t worry though Ian and I are conversing like adults

 

[Wozzy]

nobody forced you to respond. Don’t worry though Ian and I are conversing like adults

 

[Ian]

He’s 80-90 with qbs not named Brady

You keep parroting that talking point and record, knowing that the same Bill that worked with Brady was working off a different level of experience having already been a head coach.

But the end result is the same. Would Brady have been as successful and won six titles without him? And would Bill have made another elite QB have more success?

We don’t know. But if there’s any doubt, then you need to admit Bill is more than just a passenger for any QB.

 

[All3Phases]

The point is, we’re talking about Brady’s success with/without Belichick. Would Brady have been as successful without him?

Not sure, I never said Brady would have the same career with Joe Blow as BB though. My argument is that coaching only gets you so far, see Reid with Mahomes

And then, would another elite QB have been more successful with Bill?

Not sure, we do know his coaching doesn’t translate to success without Brady as of today though. Agree?

 

[All3Phases]

You keep parroting that talking point and record, knowing that the same Bill that worked with Brady was working off a different level of experience having already been a head coach.

It’s not a talking point, it’s just a fact. I acknowledge that he’s the same person today as he was 30 years ago. That doesn’t mean I should dismiss it. If you only want to include the patriot years anyway, it doesn’t paint a much better picture

But the end result is the same. Would Brady have been as successful and won six titles without him? And would Bill have made another elite QB have more success?

We don’t know. But if there’s any doubt, then you need to admit Bill is more than just a passenger for any QB.

I said it the same as Reid is the passenger to Mahomes, Reid had a lot of success without Mahomes and never cashed in until his quarterback was generational. If you don’t want to say that’s a passenger then fine, we can change the wording. But let’s not mistake where the success is coming from in KC and who the head of the snake was in NE

Both clearly great coaches, their greatness was only emphasized when the qb play was there. Maybe that’s a better way to put it

 

[Ian]

But let’s not mistake where the success is coming from in KC and where it stemmed from in NE.

But it’s still the same issue. Put Brady anywhere else, and he potentially doesn’t have the same effect. Just like if you put Manning with Bill, he’s likely at least a 3 time (or better) champ.

You want to stick with the Bill would be nothing without Brady. Other than being 45, Brady might have retired with Marino-Esque numbers and people would potentially giving him a hard time talking about how he only did it because he played so long.

Again, if you can look at any other elite QB - which the majority of great ones had - and think they’d have been better, then you know Belichick’s value.

Other than that, the two monopolized each other’s prime years. So all we have are hypotheticals, and we know the success they each had together individually likely wouldn’t be replicated apart.

If you can’t admit that last sentence, I don’t know what to tell you

Otherwise, I’ve got to get up early, so I’m out.

 

[Wozzy]

Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, Eli Manning twice, Jim Plunkett and Joe Theismann and others had the holy spirit enter their bodies for one season and guide them to the promised land… even though in Flacco’s case it was like his third or fourth best statistical season and he never won a ring at any other time.

Bradshaw, Broadway Joe... these guys weren't close to the best of their era, they are in the HOF because they were on winning teams.

But it wasn’t the team around them, it was divine intervention for one season… even though it wasn't always their best individual season, but by god's hand apparently.

One example is an outlier, 13 or more mean you're full of s--t.

"Generational" talents all... the level of stupidity has reached critical mass.

 

[All3Phases]

But it’s still the same issue. Put Brady anywhere else, and he potentially doesn’t have the same effect. Just like if you put Manning with Bill, he’s likely at least a 3 time (or better) champ.

I guess we will have to just live in another dimension and test these out

You want to stick with the Bill would be nothing without Brady. Other than being 45, Brady might have retired with Marino-Esque numbers and people would potentially giving him a hard time talking about how he only did it because he played so long.

Maybe, again…I’m not into hypotheticals. I also didn’t say Bill would be nothing without Brady, simply as of now, he hasn’t accomplished anything. I’ve said before, career isn’t over, things could change for sure

Again, if you can look at any other elite QB - which the majority of great ones had - and think they’d have been better, then you know Belichick’s value.

I still haven’t denied Belichicks value to the patriots. Just that his value is less than Brady’s

Other than that, the two monopolized each other’s prime years. So all we have are hypotheticals, and we know the success they had together likely wouldn’t be replicated apart.

Wouldn’t disagree with your last part here

If you can’t admit that last sentence, I don’t know what to tell you

Otherwise, I’ve got to get up early, so I’m out.

Same here, time flies!

 

[All3Phases]

Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, Eli Manning twice, Jim Plunkett and Joe Theismann and others had the holy spirit enter their bodies for one season and guide them to the promised land… even though in Flacco’s case it was like his third or fourth best statistical season and he never won a ring at any other time.

Bradshaw, Broadway Joe... these guys weren't the best of their era, they are in the HOF because they were on winning teams... Super Bowl wins are a TEAM stat.

But it wasn’t the team around them… it was divine intervention for one season… even though it wasn't always their best individual season, but by god's hand apparently.

One example is an outlier, 13 or more mean you're full of s--t.

"Generational" talents all... the level of stupidity has reached critical mass.

This is alot of nothing in relation to my argument, but for some reason you don’t want to explain why Bills coaching and roster building doesn’t translate quite the same without Brady. I’ll check In tomorrow to see what you come up with!

 

[Wozzy]

This guy didn't need a good team around him, like a bolt of lightning he arrived and in 2001 he rewrote the NFL's postseason passing records, shredding his opponents to the tune of 300 yards per game (400 YPG in 2023 terms) and averaging 3 TD's a game....

 

[Wozzy]

God help us all... this could be a long offseason.

Bring on the draft...

 

[Wozzy]

All three phases... his user name is supposed to be ironic right?

Tom Brady... he never had good teams around him...

 

[All3Phases]

This guy didn't need a good team around him, like a bolt of lightning he arrived and in 2001 he rewrote the NFL's postseason passing records, shredding his opponents to the tune of 300 yards per game (400 YPG in 2023 terms) and averaging 3 TD's a game....

Didn’t expect this as the response, but apparently Bill didn’t think he was going to be super successful in NE either! Based on the quote I’ve provided. I guess the 5-13 patriots turned it around by coincidence!

 

[Wozzy]

 

[lancerman]

I'm only going to ask you this once. Please take your retro porn out of this thread.

 

[Wozzy]

 

[Wozzy]

The crew is getting ready to argue…

 

[Joker]

Didn’t expect this as the response, but apparently Bill didn’t think he was going to be super successful in NE either! Based on the quote I’ve provided. I guess the 5-13 patriots turned it around by coincidence!

5 and 13??????? In a 16 game season?Man..you are one nutso football fan.In fact I'll go as far as aver you to be pathological.
Brady's stats in the 2001 Super Bowl....READ THEM and then tell us how it was Brady with those pathetic stats or Bill Belchick's defensive game plan and Adam's leg that propelled the Pats to their first title.

Tom Brady Super Bowl Stats 2001 | StatMuse

Tom Brady had a passer rating of 86.2 with 145 yards and 1 touchdown in 1 game in Super Bowl XXXVI against the St. Louis Rams on February 3, 2002.

www.statmuse.com

and BTW, I find it hard to believe you EVER witnessed the Giants Super Bowl wins when BB was defensive co-ordinator. Who the hell do you think was primarily responsible for those wins? It was the Giants DEFENSE...as ANY NFL fan who witnessed those games will tell you.

 

[Wozzy]

5 and 13??????? In a 16 game season?Man..you are one nutso football fan.In fact I'll go as far as aver you to be pathological.
Brady's stats in the 2001 Super Bowl....READ THEM and then tell us how it was Brady with those pathetic stats or Bill Belchick's defensive game plan and Adam's leg that propelled the Pats to their first title.

Tom Brady Super Bowl Stats 2001 | StatMuse

Tom Brady had a passer rating of 86.2 with 145 yards and 1 touchdown in 1 game in Super Bowl XXXVI against the St. Louis Rams on February 3, 2002.

www.statmuse.com

and BTW, I find it hard to believe you EVER witnessed the Giants Super Bowl wins when BB was defensive co-ordinator. Who the hell do you think was primarily responsible for those wins? It was the Giants DEFENSE...as ANY NFL who witnessed those games will tell you.

What about the Giants Super Bowls we lost? Tom Coughlin should be in the HOF.

But the mensa members here will tell us Eli Manning, who never led the NFL in yards, TD’s or QB Rating once… but who definitely led the league in interceptions three times, had the spirit of yahweh enter his body so he could play above himself… what’s the term, oh yeah like a “generational” talent… then after they won those two rings, he went back to being the 60% passer he was was his entire career.

Like Flacco, like Foles… the magic found them, then it was gone. Like leveling up on a video game just long enough to win a ring, then it disappeared.

It’s all very scientific…