BB THE GOAT

[crawhammer]

You calling belichick a cheat

************. Why are you so bent on convincing yourself I called Belichick a cheater?

I said you must think he's a liar, which I said was on the lines with @MAC10 calling him a cheater. It's not complicated, just connect the literal dots I had in my post.

 

[crawhammer]

The chiefs game. You know when they played the chiefs.

Which one? What season are you referring to? You're talking like they've played the Chiefs once in franchise history.

 

[crawhammer]

Instead you default to the idea that the man with 8 rings was incapable of making a personnell decision that you know was wrong despite you jacking any facts at all.

I know it was the wrong decision because unlike you I think results matter. The secondary got torched all night long while their starting CB for 55 straight games stood idle on the sideline in his uniform.

 

[Biffins]

I don't understand what the "debate" is that you're referring to. Is the question: Did Bill Belichick have more success with Tom Brady as his QB? If so, is that really a "debate"?

What's the numbers of W/L with and without Brady as HC now?

Belichick with Brady

18 Seasons
17 Division Titles
30 Postseason Wins
9 Conference Championships
6 Super Bowl Championships

Belichick without Brady

10 Seasons
0 Division Titles
1 Postseason Win
0 Conference Championships
0 Super Bowl Championships

 

[Ring 6]

Which one? What season are you referring to? You're talking like they've played the Chiefs once in franchise history.

I’m talking about in the same season. Duh.

 

[Ring 6]

I know it was the wrong decision because unlike you I think results matter. The secondary got torched all night long while their starting CB for 55 straight games stood idle on the sideline in his uniform.

You don’t know what the results would have been if a different decision was made. So your answer is bs

 

[TheRainMaker]

This is another big season coming up for Bill. He really needs Mac to take a huge leap and get his team into the playoffs or even better by winning the division. The longer he coaches and has mediocre results/not making the playoffs with now 7 teams will expose him to scrutiny by the media saying he was only good with Brady.

Greg Popovich is a good example. He was irrelevant before they tanked and landed Duncan who should've been drafted by Boston. All of the sudden he's one of the best coaches in the NBA when he had the talent he had. Now the talent has been drained for few years and he's gone back to obscurity.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

The way the defense was playing that day they sure seemed injured everywhere...but whatever it is what it is

That is how I feel when I watch Myles Bryant.

 

[Calhoun44]

GOAT discussions are stupid. I mean not just stupid, but mind-numbingly stupid. WTF? It is basically like being voted most athletic in the Jr. High yearbook. It's a god-damn popularity contest. Here is what I know and really all I give a **** about. The Patriots have been my favorite team since 1975 and all I ever wanted was them to make the playoffs in most years and that hopefully one magical day they would win a Super Bowl. My expectations were clearly met and then some. I am thankful to every fcuking person involved with the organization from the owner all the way down to the parking attendants at Foxboro Stadium/Gillette Stadium. I will never try to give any one person the majority of credit for the team's success, the margin of error for winning and losing a game is so small in the NFL that it takes a complete TEAM effort to win games. Sometimes it is an early season acquisition by the GM, sometimes it is a last second FG by the kicker, sometimes it is a first quarter tackle that puts the fear of God in a receiver that makes them timid about going over the middle for the rest of the game, sometimes it's a one-on-one win at the line of scrimmage by a lineman or defensive end, and yes sometimes it is a clutch throw by the QB. The way I see it is that these opportunities exist because of everyone doing their job and being a highly functioning well-oiled machine, the coach is responsible for getting the team and individual players ready to take advantage of those opportunities. It is up to the players to give their best effort and take advantage of those moments. The QB is in the spotlight more than every other player and deservedly gets most of the credit and the blame when the final second ticks off the clock, however football is the ultimate team sport and I and every Patriots fan should be thanking their lucky stars that Bill Belichick was hired as our team's head coach. We are lucky to have had such an amazing coach steer the ship for this many years and I will be sad when his tenure ends. I really don't fcuking care if people think he is the GOAT or not, I really only care that his coaching has allowed me to experience NFL football from the perspective of being a fan of a team that just had the most successful run in the SB era. It's good enough for me.

 

[crawhammer]

I’m talking about in the same season. Duh

So how does that game fit your argument?

You don’t know what the results would have been if a different decision was made. So your answer is bs

Had Brady not missed the 2008 season with the ACL, there's a good chance that team only loses 1 or 2 games and would have had the #1 seed. So I could say that or, if I take your approach, then I could just say I don't know what would have happened, which is less interesting and not conducive to further discussion.

I think the Patriots win SB 52 if Belichick doesn't bench Butler. I also don't know, but that's a given (for everyone) and doesn't really need to be stated. So, if you want to reduce everything down to "I don't know" then you're not going to have much to talk about.

GOAT discussions are stupid. I mean not just stupid, but mind-numbingly stupid. WTF? It is basically like being voted most athletic in the Jr. High yearbook. It's a god-damn popularity contest.

No, it's actually not a popularity contest at all. You think Belichick gets consideration as the GOAT because of his personality? I think it's pretty unlikely Belichick is winning any popularity contests with the media, fans or players. He's considered a great head coach because of his preparedness, in-game sideline coaching, and game results.

Brady is considered the GOAT QB because of his on-field accomplishments (stats, record, and championships). Montana is number two. Brady and Montana are #1 and #2 on nearly everyone's GOAT list and it's not because they're the most well-liked people. It's because they proved it the most on the field.

 

[Calhoun44]

No, it's actually not a popularity contest at all. You think Belichick gets consideration as the GOAT because of his personality? I think it's pretty unlikely Belichick is winning any popularity contests with the media, fans or players. He's considered a great head coach because of his preparedness, in-game sideline coaching, and game results.

Brady is considered the GOAT QB because of his on-field accomplishments (stats, record, and championships). Montana is number two. Brady and Montana are #1 and #2 on nearly everyone's GOAT list and it's not because they're the most well-liked people. It's because they proved it the most on the field.

It's subjective and people argue about this it all the time. It's ****ing dumb to me and this thread proves how stupid it is. Why the fcuk are people nitpicking over the details about how deserving BB and TB are of their accomplishments? It seems silly to me. People have these discussions all the time and it is impossible to get everyone to agree. Whether it's Jordan/Lebron/Russell/etc. or Orr/Gretsky/Howe/etc. or Teddy Ballgame/Barry Bonds/Mickey mantle/Babe Ruth/etc. There is no way to compare eras and to sperate team accomplishments from individual accolades. It's all about preferences when you get down to the greats of all-time. Sure, we can get things narrowed down to the top 5 or so fairly easily, but I've never been in a bar and heard these discussions end where everyone agrees who is the GOAT. It's fun to a degree, but 24 pages of it is just a bit over the top for me. If folks keep talking about, that's fine, who knows, I may even join in again. That's the way I see it, nothing more.

 

[Steve102]

It's subjective and people argue about this it all the time. It's ****ing dumb to me and this thread proves how stupid it is. Why the fcuk are people nitpicking over the details about how deserving BB and TB are of their accomplishments? It seems silly to me. People have these discussions all the time and it is impossible to get everyone to agree. Whether it's Jordan/Lebron/Russell/etc. or Orr/Gretsky/Howe/etc. or Teddy Ballgame/Barry Bonds/Mickey mantle/Babe Ruth/etc. There is no way to compare eras and to sperate team accomplishments from individual accolades. It's all about preferences when you get down to the greats of all-time. Sure, we can get things narrowed down to the top 5 or so fairly easily, but I've never been in a bar and heard these discussions end where everyone agrees who is the GOAT. It's fun to a degree, but 24 pages of it is just a bit over the top for me. If folks keep talking about, that's fine, who knows, I may even join in again. That's the way I see it, nothing more.

What really cracks me up is the fact that we have all these posts, like you're going to convince another opinionated s.o.b on an internet forum that his opinion is wrong.

 

[203Pat]

What's the numbers of W/L with and without Brady as HC now?

Belichick with Brady

18 Seasons
17 Division Titles
30 Postseason Wins
9 Conference Championships
6 Super Bowl Championships

Belichick without Brady

10 Seasons
0 Division Titles
1 Postseason Win
0 Conference Championships
0 Super Bowl Championships

This is a very triggering post around here.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That is how I feel when I watch Myles Bryant.

I feel nauseous when I watch Bryant.

 

[RobertWeathers]

This is a very triggering post around here.

It's friggan Biffins.....Crawhammer's twin sister.

 

[Ring 6]

So how does that game fit your argument?


Had Brady not missed the 2008 season with the ACL, there's a good chance that team only loses 1 or 2 games and would have had the #1 seed. So I could say that or, if I take your approach, then I could just say I don't know what would have happened, which is less interesting and not conducive to further discussion.

I think the Patriots win SB 52 if Belichick doesn't bench Butler. I also don't know, but that's a given (for everyone) and doesn't really need to be stated. So, if you want to reduce everything down to "I don't know" then you're not going to have much to talk about.


No, it's actually not a popularity contest at all. You think Belichick gets consideration as the GOAT because of his personality? I think it's pretty unlikely Belichick is winning any popularity contests with the media, fans or players. He's considered a great head coach because of his preparedness, in-game sideline coaching, and game results.

Brady is considered the GOAT QB because of his on-field accomplishments (stats, record, and championships). Montana is number two. Brady and Montana are #1 and #2 on nearly everyone's GOAT list and it's not because they're the most well-liked people. It's because they proved it the most on the field.

That game doesn’t “fit an argument” it is proof of the scheme that Belichick used against the same offensive approach. In that game he used the 4 safety package like he used in the SB. It disproves your chaos argument and shows with Butler in the lineup all that changes are Rowes snaps, and correspondingly Bademosis as cb3 becomes cb2, cb4 becomes cb3 and butler becomes cb4.

So you admit your claim is just your uninformed opinion. There we are.

 

[sb1]

What's the numbers of W/L with and without Brady as HC now?

Belichick with Brady

18 Seasons
17 Division Titles
30 Postseason Wins
9 Conference Championships
6 Super Bowl Championships

Belichick without Brady

10 Seasons
0 Division Titles
1 Postseason Win
0 Conference Championships
0 Super Bowl Championships

BB is exactly .500 as HC since the GOAT left for Tampa. 27-27. One game under if you count the wild card loss last year.

All things considered it's better than it should be especially seeing the Bill-made disaster unfold last season.

 

[crawhammer]

It's subjective

Not necessarily. How do we know Brady's the GOAT QB? 7 SB rings, 5 SB MVPs, 20 postseason appearances, 19 division titles, most ever TDs, yards, completions, game-winning drives, 4th quarter comebacks, regular season wins, and postseason wins. By the sheer enormity of his numbers and accomplishments, objectively Brady has to be the GOAT. It's not debatable (in reality).

I can make a similar statement for Montana as the second GOAT QB.

It gets more subjective the further down the list you go but it's still the same names rattling around on everyone's list (P. Manning, Unitas, Elway, Bradshaw, Staubach, etc.).

Generally people are looking at career achievements (wins, championships, MVPs, stat totals). The QBs with more in the most categories are necessarily in the discussion.

I could give a similar rundown with GOAT head coaches.

You more or less agree with what I'm saying...

Sure, we can get things narrowed down to the top 5 or so fairly easily

Why the fcuk are people nitpicking over the details about how deserving BB and TB are of their accomplishments?

Because it's entertaining for some people to weight the importance of either as it relates to the success of the team.

I've never been in a bar and heard these discussions end where everyone agrees who is the GOAT.

I don't agree.

NFL GOAT = Brady
NHL GOAT = Gretzky
NBA GOAT = Jordan
MLB GOAT = Ruth

THE MLB GOAT is probably the most contested. Some people may argue LeBron as the NBA GOAT but that's ****ing nonsense.

 

[crawhammer]

BB is exactly .500 as HC since the GOAT left for Tampa. 27-27. One game under if you count the wild card loss last year.

27-28

 

[crawhammer]

That game doesn’t “fit an argument” it is proof of the scheme that Belichick used against the same offensive approach. In that game he used the 4 safety package like he used in the SB. It disproves your chaos argument and shows with Butler in the lineup all that changes are Rowes snaps, and correspondingly Bademosis as cb3 becomes cb2, cb4 becomes cb3 and butler becomes cb4.

Gilmore CB1. Butler CB2. That's more accurate. But the problem with SB 52 was Butler DNP (coach's decision).