BB THE GOAT

[TheRainMaker]

Brady added to his legacy by winning a SB away from Bill.

IMO Bill doesn’t have to win a title to do the same thing. A successful rebuild of this team into a contender while keeping them more or less competitive in the rebuild phase is something that has to my knowledge never been done by a dual coach/GM. If Bb can do that then that might be a step forward for him that distinguishes him among the coaching greats of the sport other than just rings.

Brady winning #7 means a lot more to his own legacy than ring #9 would mean for BB. Rings are a player accomplishment more than coach.

I agree. I don't expect Bill to win another Super Bowl, but I'd like to see him field a more competitive team and win some playoff games. He can either do that with Mac Jones emerging into a good QB or he gets better players to surround the QB. The team Bill has now will continue to be dancing around .500.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

I don't understand the constant need on this board to discredit both BB and Brady. Both sides are doing it too. Its been going on for a few years too.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

I agree. I don't expect Bill to win another Super Bowl, but I'd like to see him field a more competitive team and win some playoff games. He can either do that with Mac Jones emerging into a good QB or he gets better players to surround the QB. The team Bill has now will continue to be dancing around .500.

I don't think he will either and I am in the team of thinking that BB has lost his fast ball and isnt what he used to be. There was a time people believed that BB could win with anyone. That is clearly either not the case or he has just lost a step. Could be as simple as him being older and not 100% all in to every detail.

 

[crawhammer]

Bledsoe got cleared from injury (week 10) and the media were clamoring to give him his job back because Tom was scraping by as a game manager… whereas Bledsoe was the big prototypical QB with the big arm.

Seriously, we all need to just stop with this nonsense about BB's "decision" in 2001. In Bledsoe's last 26 starts for NE, he had 32 INTs, and a 7-19 record. Brady was 14-3 in 2001.

The "decision" was made by Brady's 3rd NFL start. There was no looking back after that. So, to whatever degree this may have been a difficult decision for Belichick, based on whatever variables you want to throw into the mix (the media, Bledsoe's fat contract, his "big arm", the dummy fans siding with Drew, etc.), I'll give BB credit for making the obvious call.

 

[crawhammer]

except brady himself said he would have been the backup in 2002 had the Pats lost to the Raiders in the snowbowl game…so as usual you are wrong,

Ok, so you're saying Belichick is really a moron then. In addition to being a "cheater."

Image Bledsoe bumbling around in those snowy conditions? Patriots would have lost 0-13.

 

[Steve102]

I don't understand the constant need on this board to discredit both BB and Brady. Both sides are doing it too. Its been going on for a few years too.

The only thing that makes any sense to me is two fold: the polarization of our society (right-wrong, left-right, blue states and red states) and the need to be right by (certain) keyboard cowboys. Guys really get after each other here, they'd never be like that face to face. It's as if you're a fan of Brady you can't appreciate Belichick or vice versa. Makes zero sense.

 

[Wozzy]

Seriously, we all need to just stop with this nonsense about BB's "decision" in 2001. In Bledsoe's last 26 starts for NE, he had 32 INTs, and a 7-19 record. Brady was 14-3 in 2001.

The "decision" was made by Brady's 3rd NFL start. There was no looking back after that. So, to whatever degree this may have been a difficult decision for Belichick, based on whatever variables you want to throw into the mix (the media, Bledsoe's fat contract, his "big arm", the dummy fans siding with Drew, etc.), I'll give BB credit for making the obvious call.

You don’t remember 2001… we’ve already determined that.

You have a real gift in stamina and your ability to ignore facts, but your logic and reasoning skills need honing.

 

[crawhammer]

Say 5 starters… and the bench is as important as a backup QB, but they’re entirely more likely to play. QB’s rarely get touched.

That's fine too. All 5 starters of the offensive line were equal to Brady's sole importance.

And the backup offensive linemen are more important than the backup QB because they're far more likely to actually play, and the team can still win with them, whereas for the most part, when the starting QB goes down (especially an elite one), the team's chances of success go way down.

 

[ivanvamp]

Bill got to 8 AFCCGs in a row from 2011-2018, not 10. And the 16-0 regular season is an embarrassment given the ending. The 16-0 banner was as lame as the Colts AFC Finalist banner.

Agree on the banner. You are wildly wrong that 16-0 was an "embarrassment" given that they lost the Super Bowl in the last seconds of the game. That's complete nonsense.

 

[Wozzy]

That's fine too. All 5 starters of the offensive line were equal to Brady's sole importance.

And the backup offensive linemen are more important than the backup QB because they're far more likely to actually play, and the team can still win with them, whereas for the most part, when the starting QB goes down (especially an elite one), the team's chances of success go way down.

And we haven’t even started to quantify TE’s, WR’s, RB’s, DT’s, DE’s, LB’s, CB’s, D’s or the entire special teams units.

Once we’ve done that let’s examine coaches, because if watching the 2022 Pats, Bucs, Giants and Jaguars taught us anything… it’s that coaching matters.

Team matters more than one magical person.

 

[archstanton543]

Agree on the banner. You are wildly wrong that 16-0 was an "embarrassment" given that they lost the Super Bowl in the last seconds of the game. That's complete nonsense.

Bob Kraft has a banner you can buy off him.

 

[crawhammer]

You don’t remember 2001… we’ve already determined that.

I was there, brother. Sat next to my middle sister in the snow bowl, she froze her ass off. I loved it, the snow added a whimsical element to the moment. I still have our piece of the aluminum benches that my father and I sat on in that old stadium. Uncomfortable seating but not a bad view in the house.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Ok, so you're saying Belichick is really a moron then. In addition to being a "cheater."

Image Bledsoe bumbling around in those snowy conditions? Patriots would have lost 0-13.

I'm just pointing out that you are wrong that it was set in stone that Brady was going to be the long-term starter after the Chargers game in 2001. As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. You tend to speak with authority on a lot of things and get testy when there is push back.

 

[ivanvamp]

Seriously, we all need to just stop with this nonsense about BB's "decision" in 2001. In Bledsoe's last 26 starts for NE, he had 32 INTs, and a 7-19 record. Brady was 14-3 in 2001.

The "decision" was made by Brady's 3rd NFL start. There was no looking back after that. So, to whatever degree this may have been a difficult decision for Belichick, based on whatever variables you want to throw into the mix (the media, Bledsoe's fat contract, his "big arm", the dummy fans siding with Drew, etc.), I'll give BB credit for making the obvious call.

In game 1 of 2001, Bledsoe threw for 241 yards, 2 td, and 0 int. Yes, the Pats lost, but everyone knew they were rebuilding. Obviously he struggled vs. the Jets in game 2, then nearly got killed.

Bledsoe struggled so badly in 2000 that on March 8, 2001 - you know, on the heels of that disastrous season by Bledsoe - the Patriots signed him to what was then the richest contract in NFL history (10 years, $103 million).

It was a MAJOR decision for Belichick to pick Brady over Bledsoe once Bledsoe was healthy. He deserves massive credit for that. Virtually no other coach in the NFL would have made that call, given that (a) they just gave Bledsoe that contract, and (b) Bledsoe only lost the starting spot due to injury, and it was generally understood that players didn't lose their starting spots due to injury.

BB gets tons of credit for that call even if to you it seemed like a no-brainer. (I assure you, it wasn't a no-brainer at the time)

 

[ivanvamp]

Bob Kraft has a banner you can buy off him.

(a) I doubt I could
(b) I think the banner is dumb

But the 16-0....that was a phenomenal accomplishment.

 

[sb1]

(a) I doubt I could
(b) I think the banner is dumb

But the 16-0....that was a phenomenal accomplishment.

Yes it was.

Celebrating a team that accomplished something no other team did in the history of the league did (16-0) is a little different than celebrating a team that is one out of 55 teams that did the same thing (AFC Finalist). Laughable that they'd be mentioned in the same sentence.

 

[crawhammer]

And we haven’t even started to quantify TE’s, WR’s, RB’s, DT’s, DE’s, LB’s, CB’s, D’s or the entire special teams units.

I'll think about it and give you a full break down when I have more time.

Once we’ve done that let’s examine coaches, because if watching the 2022 Pats, Bucs, Giants and Jaguars taught us anything… it’s that coaching matters.

Agree. Coaching isn't unimportant. Especially when they're as mind-numbingly awful as toilet bowles.

Trevor Lawrence improved dramatically this season, so definitely Pederson gets some credit, but Lawrence is so obviously talented, that just naturally he was going to improve. Josh Allen, same thing, eventually his immense talent had to emerge.

Team matters more than one magical person.

Well, by sheer volume, 52 against 1, I agree. But this very obvious, no?

My contention again is the 1 can be so valuable that if he's removed then the team can fall from contention. This is the value of Brady. For me Gronk was the second most valuable player of the Patriots Dynasty. Without him, the team won SB 51. Replace Gronk's absence with Brady's and that team's not winning a SB.

 

[ivanvamp]

Yes it was.

Celebrating a team that accomplished something no other team did in the history of the league did (16-0) is a little different than celebrating a team that is one out of 55 teams that did the same thing (AFC Finalist). Laughable that they'd be mentioned in the same sentence.

Agreed. And since then, it's been another 15 years, with 32 teams playing those 15 years, so there's been another 480 chances for someone else to go 16-0, and it hasn't been done. Heck, even the Pats had GREAT teams since then, but didn't come close to 16-0.

Every year, SOMEONE wins the Super Bowl. But nobody but the 2007 Patriots has ever gone 16-0.

 

[crawhammer]

I'm just pointing out that you are wrong that it was set in stone that Brady was going to be the long-term starter after the Chargers game in 2001. As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. You tend to speak with authority on a lot of things and get testy when there is push back.

You hate Brady. And Belichick for that matter. You've completely invested yourself in Mahomes and the Chiefs. Why are you even posting in this thread?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You hate Brady. And Belichick for that matter. You've completely invested yourself in Mahomes and the Chiefs. Why are you even posting in this thread?

To point out that you are wrong. And like I said you always talk like someone with authority about a particular subject.