Content Post Words on things I watched, read & heard II

[captain stone]

I was watching him in Philly and he was roasted so many times. Agree he played for us better than in Philly but it is still not enough to be our starter as a safety. I am fine with Dugger and Phillips but Mills as Dmac's replacement is a misunderstanding to me. We need a real leader and skilfull player. I can accept Mills only as a substitute player.

Still holding out hope that Shaun Wade can become a starting-caliber Free Safety in the league... Don't think that CB is any longer in his future.

 

[Vindicate]

I know I only come in here with questions, so pardon the incessant asking, but:

What is different about CB and FS play? I guess I'm more wondering, what intangibles/measurables/knowledge does a FS possess that a CB doesn't? And why do draft articles often list slot CB's as a potential safety?

Just trying to understand what separates a FS and CB - maybe explaining why Dmac made the transition so cleanly would help? Can most CB's transition to FS? Or is that rare?

Seems like I've been reading that the safeties should be all day 2 picks.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I know I only come in here with questions, so pardon the incessant asking, but:

What is different about CB and FS play? I guess I'm more wondering, what intangibles/measurables/knowledge does a FS possess that a CB doesn't? And why do draft articles often list slot CB's as a potential safety?

Just trying to understand what separates a FS and CB - maybe explaining why Dmac made the transition so cleanly would help? Can most CB's transition to FS? Or is that rare?

Seems like I've been reading that the safeties should be all day 2 picks.

My phone is dying and I'm out but this has some layers I'll unpeel later.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I was watching him in Philly and he was roasted so many times. Agree he played for us better than in Philly but it is still not enough to be our starter as a safety. I am fine with Dugger and Phillips but Mills as Dmac's replacement is a misunderstanding to me. We need a real leader and skilfull player. I can accept Mills only as a substitute player.

Agree 100%. No idea where that narrative started.

 

[upstater1]

respect as always @patfanken but that is a hardly an argument. if your need is a tackle what good is the argument that they found guards and centers in later rounds?

Of some 15 OTs drafted by BB (and Dante) in later rounds (3-7) they were able to find ONE starter - and he was a RT (Cannon). In 22 years!

Isn't this because the Tackles we did draft were very difficult to displace?

Matt Light
Sebastian Vollmer
Nate Solder
Marcus Cannon
& FA Trent Brown

These were our tackles over the span of 20 years.

By taking 11 more tackles in the draft, I think they were looking for depth, rather than find guys to replace the likes of Light or Vollmer.

 

[patfanken]

Do, you really think that there is no talent at OT in the draft?

My guess is that at least 4 or 5 (perhaps double that) will be starting for playoff teams in their first two seasons.

The question is WHEN is the value at LT in the draft. Whether or not we sign a FA OT or two, we should still be drafting an OT. We have none for the future.
===========
With regard to which position we choose on Round 1, I suppose that belongs on the Draft Board. For me, that greatly depends on who's coming back. I don't see us drafting a CB high if we have 3 Jones boys and Mills coming back, although I could see that happening if we were to acquire two OT's before the draft.

I have no idea about the OT talent in the draft and if one might be there at 14. That being said I read that there are likely to be 4 or 5 OLmen that are good enough to draft in the first round. I was respond to a poster who didn't seem to think that there will be a sure thing OT at 14. I took him at his word since at this point I'm pretty clueless about this draft. He didn't think this class of OT's will be as good as some recent years.

As for is there OL talent in the draft. OF course there is. There always is, and some kid drafted in the 6th round will likely be an all pro after 3 years. So MG, do you have a OT you hope is there when the Pats go on the board? Start my education. Is this the year to trade down to the 20's? Is this a deep draft so picking up extra picks in the 2nd and 3rd round will be a good idea? OR should we be looking to move up into the top 10 (where we haven't been since Richard Seymour at 6 over 20 years ago.

I contend that the rarest athletes are the big guys on offense and defense. Really big fast guys are hard to find, but WR's seem to be found all thru the draft. The Sauce Gardner pick showed the impact of a "shut down" CB has on a defense. Are their a few in THIS draft worth following?

It is going to be a REALLY interesting off season this year with as many moves in the coaching department as there will be in FA. We have enough money I think to sign at least ONE immediate impact FA at some position. Is there a FA OT we should target?

I eagerly await your input

 

[mgteich]

I have no idea about the OT talent in the draft and if one might be there at 14. That being said I read that there are likely to be 4 or 5 OLmen that are good enough to draft in the first round. I was respond to a poster who didn't seem to think that there will be a sure thing OT at 14. I took him at his word since at this point I'm pretty clueless about this draft. He didn't think this class of OT's will be as good as some recent years.

As for is there OL talent in the draft. OF course there is. There always is, and some kid drafted in the 6th round will likely be an all pro after 3 years. So MG, do you have a OT you hope is there when the Pats go on the board? Start my education. Is this the year to trade down to the 20's? Is this a deep draft so picking up extra picks in the 2nd and 3rd round will be a good idea? OR should we be looking to move up into the top 10 (where we haven't been since Richard Seymour at 6 over 20 years ago.

I contend that the rarest athletes are the big guys on offense and defense. Really big fast guys are hard to find, but WR's seem to be found all thru the draft. The Sauce Gardner pick showed the impact of a "shut down" CB has on a defense. Are their a few in THIS draft worth following?

It is going to be a REALLY interesting off season this year with as many moves in the coaching department as there will be in FA. We have enough money I think to sign at least ONE immediate impact FA at some position. Is there a FA OT we should target?

I eagerly await your input

I'm not an expert on college talent, or even very good at going through the evaluations of college players.

In some sense, I am in the situation as you are. I know we need OL talent and should draft the talent early, I don't know whether it will be right to trade up, trade down or stay where we are. However, I have a strong sense that we need to have drafted an OT in the first 45 picks, better yet in the first 20 picks. My personal preference is to pay the resources for a veteran swing OT, perhaps good enough to start at LT while the draftee learns a bit.

 

[oceansizer]

Mills hasn't played Safety for the Pats. He was asked to be an outside corner and he did a very good job, when healthy.
Mills more than earned a starting spot. Holding his play in Philly against him when you've seem him grow and do lightyears better in this defense is illogical to me.

Mills may not be able to handle the FS Position. We don't know what Bill is planning. For all we know, he's got his eye on a 1st round CB he plans to convert.. LOL

Of course he has not played safety for the Pats but there are some rumors he might be asked to do that and personally I cannot see it.
Assuming Jon Jones is gone, we have Jack Jones, Marcus Jones, Mills, Wade and Bryant as our CBs. To me not bad but we need badly a starter CB cause Mills is not that guy.
We will see what happens via free agency. However I think BB will take one or even more CB during draft .

 

[mgteich]

Isn't this because the Tackles we did draft were very difficult to displace?

Matt Light
Sebastian Vollmer
Nate Solder
Marcus Cannon
& FA Trent Brown

These were our tackles over the span of 20 years.

By taking 11 more tackles in the draft, I think they were looking for depth, rather than find guys to replace the likes of Light or Vollmer.

seems right to me

starting OT's in the 1st or 2nd rounds
backup OT's in the 4th or 5th rounds (or even 6th)

We need at least one of each this year.

 

[DaBruinz]

Of course he has not played safety for the Pats but there are some rumors he might be asked to do that and personally I cannot see it.
Assuming Jon Jones is gone, we have Jack Jones, Marcus Jones, Mills, Wade and Bryant as our CBs. To me not bad but we need badly a starter CB cause Mills is not that guy.
We will see what happens via free agency. However I think BB will take one or even more CB during draft .

Here's the thing. You're judging Mills based on his PHILLY days. Not his Patriot Days. Saying you can't see it when he improved so much AND more than showed he's capable of starting on the Outside doesn't make sense. You're not giving him any credit for improving.

You're ignoring that the Pats have already signed 3 new CBs in Hayes, Mosely, and Randle. Don't be surprised if neither Bryant nor Wade make it through the spring.

I have no doubt that BB will add more corners and safeties. I figured he'd draft a CB and a S. There are a couple of aging vets (Patrick Peterson / Marcus Peters) who would look good on the outside in rotation with the young kids. Not sure about FS, though. I mentioned a few in the FA thread, but they might not be in the Pats price range.

 

[Sciz]

Big picture, Belichick needs to decide if they’re going to be as heavy on man defense next season as they’ve tried to be in recent years. It obviously requires a strong group of CBs, and the last three seasons have all been examples of how injuries can cripple man defenses. Is it just not realistic to play primarily man coverage for a whole season given the current physicality of the longer season?

If they want to build on the solid last few weeks of primarily zone, then I do think that’s actually a situation where there’d be value in adding a new starting linebacker. In man, you can generally control your matchups so Tavai is on the fullback or blocking TE, but you can’t control who runs into his zone. Lighter boxes from more two-deep alignments and Uche hopefully earning a bigger early down role despite his run game deficiencies are both reasons that you’d want a real linebacker and not a box safety.

 

[PatsFan2]

That would be ideal or even end of 1st. 14 is a prime spot, obviously right outside the lottery. So we gotta hit it hard like prom night.

Hyatt is very intriguing to me. His speed is something else. We'd have two developments at Z with Thornton and Hyatt though. I brought this up with Johnston too. Different positions, he'd be our X but same idea. We'd now have two guys we really need to develop.

I think a trade is more likely with our cap space but still want people to get familiar with the big name prospects. Especially at positions of need.

Bacon I agree with you when you said this is a very good class. I was a little skeptical at first but some of these prospects are really good and have some serious upside. IF there is a year to double dip it's this one. With Thornton already in the fold if he ever improves we are in business. The Patriots need some serious playmakers in the Slot and on the outsides J Meyers can go thanks for the memories.

 

[Uptown]

 

[rochrist]

Bacon I agree with you when you said this is a very good class. I was a little skeptical at first but some of these prospects are really good and have some serious upside. IF there is a year to double dip it's this one. With Thornton already in the fold if he ever improves we are in business. The Patriots need some serious playmakers in the Slot and on the outsides J Meyers can go thanks for the memories.

Someone else anxious to throw away the only WR who's performed here since JE.

 

[PatsFan2]

Someone else anxious to throw away the only WR who's performed here since JE.

IF you think J Meyers is better than Third WR you're delusional.

 

[PatsFan2]

Split internally?? So we don't need to keep up with the rest of the League who have legit playmakers on the outsides.

 

[PatsFan2]

Someone else anxious to throw away the only WR who's performed here since JE.

Of all over Sot Receivers over the years I would line em up like this.

1) Welker

2) Edelman

3) Troy Brown

4) Meyers

5) Danny Amendola

Yeah Meyers have looked good with that pathetic group post Tom Brady what does that tell you?? In FA I say buyer beware!

 

[PatsFan2]

I have no idea about the OT talent in the draft and if one might be there at 14. That being said I read that there are likely to be 4 or 5 OLmen that are good enough to draft in the first round. I was respond to a poster who didn't seem to think that there will be a sure thing OT at 14. I took him at his word since at this point I'm pretty clueless about this draft. He didn't think this class of OT's will be as good as some recent years.

As for is there OL talent in the draft. OF course there is. There always is, and some kid drafted in the 6th round will likely be an all pro after 3 years. So MG, do you have a OT you hope is there when the Pats go on the board? Start my education. Is this the year to trade down to the 20's? Is this a deep draft so picking up extra picks in the 2nd and 3rd round will be a good idea? OR should we be looking to move up into the top 10 (where we haven't been since Richard Seymour at 6 over 20 years ago.

I contend that the rarest athletes are the big guys on offense and defense. Really big fast guys are hard to find, but WR's seem to be found all thru the draft. The Sauce Gardner pick showed the impact of a "shut down" CB has on a defense. Are their a few in THIS draft worth following?

It is going to be a REALLY interesting off season this year with as many moves in the coaching department as there will be in FA. We have enough money I think to sign at least ONE immediate impact FA at some position. Is there a FA OT we should target?

I eagerly await your input

Maybe for other Teams we stink @ it and that's a fact!

 

[long distance]

NE will also be coaching Shrine.
Teams coaching senior bowls improved their Draft hauls, some significantly.

 

[captain stone]

...By taking 11 more tackles in the draft, I think they were looking for depth, rather than find guys to replace the likes of Light or Vollmer.

Shouldn't they be looking for the Best Available OT at the time of those picks?