Content Post Words on things I watched, read & heard II

[DaBruinz]

When have the Patriots ever made moves that make sense?

Watch BB draft the next N'Keal Harry or another guard in the 1st round, and thumb his nose at the draftniks yet again.

2023 is the year where BB really needs to start using that big brain of his to make the right moves instead of just 'outsmarting' the NFL by making moves nobody expects.

Why are you still here if all you're going to do is make s**t up and complain? Just leave and be done with it. No one wants to hear the garbage anymore.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Maybe we have the wrong Jones! Lol

 

[VJCPatriot]

JSN (Jaxon Smith-Njigba) is the slot we've been missing since Edleman and a lot more with respect to Jules. He's probably the safest WR in the class and will be WR1 on many boards. His 2021 season is absolutely special - 95/1606/10 and almost 17 per clip. His teammates, Olave and Wilson gush over his abilities and consider him the best among the trio. Just saying those guys were top 11 picks and he looked like the best of the bunch at times.

I rated Olave as the best fit WR for the Patriots in the 2022 draft and he had an excellent rookie season, proving himself NFL ready. If JSN is really the best of the Ohio State trio, count me as interested. I’ll have to look at more of his plays. But do you believe he could eventually play the role of WR1 for a pro team?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I rated Olave as the best fit WR for the Patriots in the 2022 draft and he had an excellent rookie season, proving himself NFL ready. If JSN is really the best of the Ohio State trio, count me as interested. I’ll have to look at more of his plays. But do you believe he could eventually play the role of WR1 for a pro team?

Low-end WR1, possession type, yes. Not sure I'd take him at 14 but he's very very good!

Sometimes comparisons are tricky and hit or miss but I think Cobb and Woods are good all-around comps here.

Play style and career path. Where it's usually just play style. At their peak, when utilized correctly both those guys were excellent receivers. Woods had 176/2300+/8 not too long ago when arriving in LA. He finally had a proper OC and QB and put up numbers. Also one of the better blockers out there. Cobb had some nagging injuries but was one of AR's favorite targets for a reason. Incredibly shifty, low to the ground, when healthy very tough to cover.

We have Meyers but he might be about to be paid and out of our range. JSN is a natural slot, very smart and while it's only 1 year. It was quite the year. He'd produce day 1 if healthy and hopefully complement Ty Thornton on the inside. We would still need a true X but JSN has 90-100 rec 1K 5 capabilities imho.

 

[oceansizer]

Yeah Hayes was signed to a two year deal. He looked fine. Mills-Jack Jones-Marcus Jones-Hayes-Bryant could be OK. They probably do want to get a corner with a little size though and I wouldn't mind bringing Jonathan Jones back if his market isn't too hot. Or maybe after Staley gets fired, they dump JC Jackson and he scuttles back to NE.

With all due respect, Mills scares me as a starter. Bryant scares me even more as a player being on the field.

 

[long distance]

#1 - Its clearly obvious that the OL need to be improved. In my mind that means getting at least 2 new starters from the draft and.or FA -
As far as taking one in the first round, I am ambivalent, IIRC there are 4 OT's currently rated as first round picks and at #14 we can get one of them, HOWEVER the Pats have been able to pick some very good OL in the later rounds (Thuney, Owenu, Andrews, Mason, to name just a few)

respect as always @patfanken but that is a hardly an argument. if your need is a tackle what good is the argument that they found guards and centers in later rounds?

Of some 15 OTs drafted by BB (and Dante) in later rounds (3-7) they were able to find ONE starter - and he was a RT (Cannon). In 22 years!

Yup there will be one elite player in the LT, WR, CB group in the middle of the 1st round.

The bigger problem is i dont see even ONE elite prospect tackle in this Draft esp @ LT.
You can MAYBE find a decent starter yr 1 esp @ RT - but is the investment of #14 worth it? Esp. since there doesnt seem to be significant difference overall among top 5-10 tackle prospects.
At least at LT it seems like the Kolton Miller 2.0 - paying a premium both in the Draft and later huge extension for an average OT that will not take you anywhere.

_____________

Thats why punting on consecutive great OT classes by BB lately - esp being such a rarity + severe lack in NFL - is just baffling to me.

The way regression of the line is killing NE prime asset (#15 QB on a rookie deal) & maybe even more importantly clouding the evaluation process - serious investment @ LT would be sensible and that option doesnt look to be 2023 Draft nor betting on Mount Brown.

So atm id say draft starting potential RT and pay whatever necessary for LT (probably via trade).
Hitting on those two makes everyone else on the team better (incl defense by complementary football extension) so that would always be my priority..

 

[Wozzy]

The bigger problem is i dont see even ONE elite prospect tackle in this Draft esp @ LT.
You can MAYBE find a decent starter yr 1 esp @ RT - but is the investment of #14 worth it?
At least at LT it seems like the Kolton Miller 2.0 - paying a premium both in the Draft and later huge extension for an average OT that will not take you anywhere.

How could you possibly make this statement above, no tackles in this draft class? Do you watch that much college football, did you watch many Chattanooga games last season to know Cole Strange was one of the best OG prospects in the draft? There are always tackles, with a top twenty pick they can find one.

Thats why punting on consecutive great OT classes by BB lately - esp being such a rarity + severe lack in NFL - is just baffling to me.

The way regression of the line is killing your prime asset (#15 QB on a rookie deal) & maybe even more importantly clouding the evaluation process - serious investment @ LT would be sensible and that option doesnt look to be 2023 Draft nor betting on Mount Brown.

The regression of the line was a regression of the offense. Why is it Mac gets a pass because Patricia was horrible, but the line was playing in a vacuum and lives weren’t made more difficult, even with opposing defenders calling out run and pass plays in advance of the snap.

I believe Trent Brown led the league in false starts because opposing DE’s were jumping the snap because they knew the plays. Brown never had this problem until 2022… coincidence?

 

[long distance]

I understand his value there but think his speed and instincts could make him a great free safety.

he had some struggles covering tight ends in the RZ, it seems harder to me to stick with WR

its a bit different way of playing, when covering TE he is one-on-one from the LoS covering the respective TE/WR with his back to the ball, while as a FS you have the game in front of you, you are more anticipating and reading where the QB throws the ball to while more of cleaning up/supporting the CBs in their coverages and he is a really good open field tacklers, not sure whether he would be bad as FS at all, I think he has the right traits to be a good FS

I like him on the line as well and wondering a bit that they don't use him similar to Hightower/Chung on situational blitzes coming of the edge when he is close to the line, haven't seen a safety blitz in while for the patriots

i agree but his role closer to the LOS is really helpful against sceens, east west runs with his speed since our lb are not the fastest
i wonder if peppers could take over this duties fulltime and free dugger to move him to fs

Dugger is of course an absolute monster and game changer near LOS esp playing forward.
BUT he is a liability playing backward (covering TE) and even backwards-lateral (RZ).

So having everything in front of him doesnt seem like a bad idea. (although having him as FS in the red zone is more of a question).
When he was drafted most people thought of him as FS of the future iirc.

First question is where is he more valuable (incl possible replacements).
Second, do you really want to change the one thing that works.

 

[patsinthesnow]

6’ CB & PFF had him giving up 1 yard in press man. Sounds like potential match between value & need in round 1.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

6’ CB & PFF had him giving up 1 yard in press man. Sounds like potential match between value & need in round 1.

Plus Bielema connection for we that's worth. There's 4-5 of those guys I can see at 14.

 

[DaBruinz]

With all due respect, Mills scares me as a starter. Bryant scares me even more as a player being on the field.

Why does Mills scare you as a starter? He played better than expected when healthy.

 

[p8ryts]

Dugger is of course an absolute monster and game changer near LOS esp playing forward.
BUT he is a liability playing backward (covering TE) and even backwards-lateral (RZ).

So having everything in front of him doesnt seem like a bad idea. (although having him as FS in the red zone is more of a question).
When he was drafted most people thought of him as FS of the future iirc.

First question is where is he more valuable (incl possible replacements).
Second, do you really want to change the one thing that works.

yes

 

[oceansizer]

Why does Mills scare you as a starter? He played better than expected when healthy.

I was watching him in Philly and he was roasted so many times. Agree he played for us better than in Philly but it is still not enough to be our starter as a safety. I am fine with Dugger and Phillips but Mills as Dmac's replacement is a misunderstanding to me. We need a real leader and skilfull player. I can accept Mills only as a substitute player.

 

[patfanken]

respect as always @patfanken but that is a hardly an argument. if your need is a tackle what good is the argument that they found guards and centers in later rounds?

Of some 15 OTs drafted by BB (and Dante) in later rounds (3-7) they were able to find ONE starter - and he was a RT (Cannon). In 22 years!




The bigger problem is i dont see even ONE elite prospect tackle in this Draft esp @ LT.
You can MAYBE find a decent starter yr 1 esp @ RT - but is the investment of #14 worth it? Esp. since there doesnt seem to be significant difference overall among top 5-10 tackle prospects.
At least at LT it seems like the Kolton Miller 2.0 - paying a premium both in the Draft and later huge extension for an average OT that will not take you anywhere.

_____________

Thats why punting on consecutive great OT classes by BB lately - esp being such a rarity + severe lack in NFL - is just baffling to me.

The way regression of the line is killing NE prime asset (#15 QB on a rookie deal) & maybe even more importantly clouding the evaluation process - serious investment @ LT would be sensible and that option doesnt look to be 2023 Draft nor betting on Mount Brown.

So atm id say draft starting potential RT and pay whatever necessary for LT (probably via trade).
Hitting on those two makes everyone else on the team better (incl defense by complementary football extension) so that would always be my priority..

Excellent points in your analysis, but contradictory. In you comment to me you make a good case on why drafting an OT in the draft is important since, while they have had great success in finding good interior OL talent in the later rounds, they haven't been good at all at drafting OT's late.

THEN in response to VJC, you make an equally good case for NOT drafting an OT early in this coming draft since there isn't many sure bets around when the Pats draft at 14.

So I have 2 questions for you, LD. First, given your assessment of the OT talent in this draft, what position would YOU go after at 14, and second, is there an OT out there in FA that we should be targeting?

 

[mgteich]

. First, given your assessment of the OT talent in this draft, what position would YOU go after at 14, and second, is there an OT out there in FA that we should be targeting?

Do, you really think that there is no talent at OT in the draft?

My guess is that at least 4 or 5 (perhaps double that) will be starting for playoff teams in their first two seasons.

The question is WHEN is the value at LT in the draft. Whether or not we sign a FA OT or two, we should still be drafting an OT. We have none for the future.
===========
With regard to which position we choose on Round 1, I suppose that belongs on the Draft Board. For me, that greatly depends on who's coming back. I don't see us drafting a CB high if we have 3 Jones boys and Mills coming back, although I could see that happening if we were to acquire two OT's before the draft.

 

[AQPE]

@parsfanken and @longdistance, I’m interested in knowing a bit more about your assessment of Paris Johnson, Anton Harrison, Broderick Jones, and Peter Skoronski. Those 4 are the OT prospects that I’ve both watched myself (which doesn’t count very much but I enjoy trying to analyze prospects) and seen highest in the rankings. Based on recent history I think all 4 will be taken in the first round (whether they “should” or not).

Of those, I think currently that Johnson is the best LT prospect followed by Harrison and that Skoronski is the best lineman of the group but due to height and arm length is more likely to be a better guard than a tackle in the NFL. The one that is an enigma to me is Jones who is also not tall but I’ve been impressed with his agility which would make him a good match with Cole Strange.

Picking #14 is hopefully not something the Pats will need to do again for a while, so they need someone who can be an elite performer. The need for OT is critical but I’d rather see them use that pick for an elite CB, WR, LB, FS, or even … QB than on an OT prospect that isn’t all that much better
(if better at all) than guys like Bergeron, Wright, Duncan, or Freeland (and others that may emerge over the next couple months in this process).

If they do pick someone at another position in the first round, I think they will absolutely need to hit the bullseye on a LT in round 2, even if it means moving up in that round or even into the first round to do so.

 

[DaBruinz]

I was watching him in Philly and he was roasted so many times. Agree he played for us better than in Philly but it is still not enough to be our starter as a safety. I am fine with Dugger and Phillips but Mills as Dmac's replacement is a misunderstanding to me. We need a real leader and skilfull player. I can accept Mills only as a substitute player.

Mills hasn't played Safety for the Pats. He was asked to be an outside corner and he did a very good job, when healthy.
Mills more than earned a starting spot. Holding his play in Philly against him when you've seem him grow and do lightyears better in this defense is illogical to me.

Mills may not be able to handle the FS Position. We don't know what Bill is planning. For all we know, he's got his eye on a 1st round CB he plans to convert.. LOL

 

[PatsFan2]

Going to start pumping out some draft thoughts, reports and ideas. Trying to leave the threads in the DF and thoughts and convo here.

Feel comfortable with the top half of the WR class. So ill start there.


JSN (Jaxon Smith-Njigba) is the slot we've been missing since Edleman and a lot more with respect to Jules. He's probably the safest WR in the class and will be WR1 on many boards. His 2021 season is absolutely special - 95/1606/10 and almost 17 per clip. His teammates, Olave and Wilson gush over his abilities and consider him the best among the trio. Just saying those guys were top 11 picks and he looked like the best of the bunch at times. Truthfully I don't believe he'll test as well but that's not a bad thing as long as he's hitting thresholds. I'm sure his 3 cone will be silly.



Natural counter puncher that can get you off off-balance very easily. Will use a variety of releases, mainly stutter variations with narrow and wide footwork but his ability to attack and use leverage to his advantage is pretty impressive. Great job at using tempo - stride length, different speeds off the line into his stem. Everything looks the same for the first few yards until he hits you with a nasty plant or head/shoulder fake. Very clean at the top of his routes. No wasted steps. Offers clean chest to target. Natural hands, soft and usually catches late like most greats. No fight at all catching passes. Catches the ball at the last possible second at times. Strong hands. Will body catch but like other great players he'll guide it into himself. Very nice acceleration and deceleration in/out of his breaks. Nothing choppy or wasted steps.

Wilson was a top 10 pick and certainty killing it but you can see the difference and how smooth JSN is







Lives in corners blindspots for a living. Master manipulater that'll hurt you from the stem and top of his routes. He's constantly putting defenders in the worse possible spot with his IQ and awareness.

Very willing and effective blocker. Every down player that does the small stuff like everyone is watching

Plays very low to the ground with lots of traction on his tires. Very elusive and shifty. Very smooth lateral movement with oily hips. Vision and spatial awareness were apparent early on with him in HS. Running back with the ball in his hands. YAC monster. Plus body control.



Could be slot only but you can target him deep there. Plus tracking ability and concentration. He can stretch the field a little bit vertically. You can see him pulling the strings on routes and putting defenders in places he wants them. Makes them think to cause hesitation and hits their blind spot. I'd love to see him really get rocked up in an NFL training program. I don't think he'll run as well as Wilson but he's got good enough speed for sure. Small sample size outside, faced a lot of nickel/LB/Saf but had some nice reps outside.

Injuries are the only major concern if you're ok with drafting a slot-only guy top 20-40. 90% of his usage and production came from there. Athleticism is there but not overwhelming.

He's a security blanket, instant chain mover with the ability to stretch the field horizontally and vertically to a lesser extent. He's instant quickness and shifty af in the mof. Doesn't need any help getting open. Starting slot/part-time Z. Possibly your best WR by the end of September. Also Brian Hartline is killing it there. He'll be a HC very soon.

With that medical history unless he falls to the Second I'd take him in slight trade-up.

 

[PatsFan2]

Jalin Hyatt is another one with big-time potential as a deep threat game changer.

Long arms, high cut but does a good job getting low coming out his breaks. Can be a bit inconsistent there. Good stop and start. Powerful hips show off track background which is all over his film. Very fit, fires off powerful long strides. Extremely light on his feet. 10.46 100m and 21.14 200m in HS and set records playing WR at 150lbs. He floats doesn't run and has a bounce to him when cuts and moves. Very explosive, sudden athlete. Should run 4.3 - 4.35. Averaged almost 20 per clip this year (18.9) and tore up Alabama for 200 + yards/ 5 TD. I like his instincts and awareness on the field. Specifically tracking live balls, adjusting to coverage in live action, timing up routes for big plays. He has some real work when it comes to rr but he's really good at what he's does well. Soft hands that receive the ball, no fight, good concentration on some big plays. Release package could use some work although he did show some nice lateral movements. Lots of bigs plays of busted coverage but he made them and quite a few more. Don't think he'll ever be true WR1 in terms of volume but again what he does well, he does very well. He's one of these guys you really don't want to see on Buffalo, Chargers, KC etc for obvious reasons but those QB'S can truly help him specifically hit that peak bc of top end speed and array of weapons they already have.



alin Hyatt

Jalin Hyatt I will say it this is the guy take him @14 can't miss prospect. BB can ask his buddy how good he is Hyatt torched Saban's Team.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

With that medical history unless he falls to the Second I'd take him in slight trade-up.

That would be ideal or even end of 1st. 14 is a prime spot, obviously right outside the lottery. So we gotta hit it hard like prom night.

Jalin Hyatt I will say it this is the guy take him @14 can't miss prospect. BB can ask his buddy how good is he torched Saban's Team.

Hyatt is very intriguing to me. His speed is something else. We'd have two developments at Z with Thornton and Hyatt though. I brought this up with Johnston too. Different positions, he'd be our X but same idea. We'd now have two guys we really need to develop.

I think a trade is more likely with our cap space but still want people to get familiar with the big name prospects. Especially at positions of need.