QB Performance - Coaching Matters

[venecol]

He was making sure he stayed in bounds to not stop the clock

It was still a dumb play call. Hand it off to Rham, who was having a great game. Try to get some positive yards from your best player. It was cowardly. That's on Patricia.

 

[State]

A good, healthy O-line will also go a long way in improving Mac's performance!!!!

So when McDaniels pilfered our OL coach a year after the insanity about a flu-like novel virus caused our other young (and promising) coach to be forced out, Bill responded by having a guy with a thin resume take over along with an inexperienced guy and former player. Patricia and Yates.

You blew it, Belichick. To add insult to injury, Patricia also runs the offense.

Any one ever heard of this before, a OL coach who is also OC? I was dubious about it before the season started. I should have been screaming from the rooftops. Here at Patsfans.

The Bengals, on the other hand, have two very good and experienced guys. The assistant actually coached Logan Mankins at Fresno State. The top guy, Frank Pollack, is probably the second best in the league after the guy in Philly.

This is a first in my lifetime: the Bengals have better coaching than the Patriots.

So I expect the Bengals to be able to run on us, dink and dunk, then attack us vertically.

Boy, I hope I’m wrong.

 

[ashley]

Boy, I hope I’m wrong.

Me too

 

[WhatJustHappened]

People are talking about how Josh Allen improved in his second year, but that is ignoring the fact he had Brian Daboll both his rookie year and second year. Daboll was able to hold Allen's hand and develop him.

There is an overwhelming number of first round QB busts who had a revolving door of OCs and systems in their first few years. In fact off the top of my head, I cannot think of a single successful QB who had a different OC and offense his second year in the league. I am sure there are some, but I cannot think of who. Most are busts.

Trevor Lawrence entered the chat....

 

[State]

Life is short, you're wasting your time with all this negativity. You really should find another team to root for with a quarterback you can get behind. Tampa Bay might be an option. Oh, wait ...

Isn’t being a fan meaningful to you? Short for fanatic.

 

[State]

Me too

Yo tambien tambien.

 

[raduray]

Is your thesis, Joe Judge is a QB killer?

Correlation is not causation, but ...

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Trevor Lawrence entered the chat....

Doug Pederson is an excellent offensive coach

Lawrence was not having an amazing year, but they've really started to turn the ship and if they can sneak into playoffs, they could be dangerous

 

[DSting]

My god, look at the footwork on this pass. No wonder he missed Jonnu. Doesn't square his hips to the throw. His throws to the right suck and this is an example of why--lazy footwork.
Big coaching failure on offense, no doubt. Is Mac being told not to adjust the protection? I doubt it. Remember all the Linda/Rita calls Brady used to make at the line? In the Erhardt-Perkins system, that tells the line to adjust the protection left or right based on what the QB sees when they line up. I'm not sure if I've heard Mac do that once. He probably has, but I haven't heard it.

 

[DSting]

A few general playcalling observations:
Everybody keeps screaming for more play action. Okay, one possibility is those idiot NFL coaches can't seem to figure out that play action gives certain advantages to the offense by freezing the LBs. Or...they have a QB who can't process very quickly. He turns his back to the defense and when he turns around to square up he needs to process very quickly and make the throw. Play action gives a QB much less time to process the defensive rotations. Receivers on one side of the formation run routes designed to beat a certain coverage, and this is married to the other side which will run complementary routes. But knowing which side of the formation to look for requires knowing the coverage post snap--every defense shows one thing and then drops into another after the snap.
OLine blocking. They get a call in the huddle which will tell them the protection, which indicates what the drop will be for the QB. But the center and QB need to make adjustments to protection at the line. The OLine is definitely not strong this year, but this is a combination of factors including adjustments at the line. The QB plays a huge role in this. Remember the super bowl when the explosive Rams offense only scored 3 points? BB was using a defense that didn't declare until after McVay could no longer talk to Goff through the mic. This revealed the absolute disaster that Goff was for processing what the defense showed--he was completely lost. What did the Rams do? Trade for a QB would could process better and they won a super bowl.
I do not think Patricia is very good. The sequences and tendencies are disjointed and don't fool many defenses. But I also don't think Mac is very good either. His footwork sucks and he's horrible at arguably the most important part of QBing a team--recognition and processing the defensive rotations.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

My god, look at the footwork on this pass. No wonder he missed Jonnu. Doesn't square his hips to the throw. His throws to the right suck and this is an example of why--lazy footwork.
Big coaching failure on offense, no doubt. Is Mac being told not to adjust the protection? I doubt it. Remember all the Linda/Rita calls Brady used to make at the line? In the Erhardt-Perkins system, that tells the line to adjust the protection left or right based on what the QB sees when they line up. I'm not sure if I've heard Mac do that once. He probably has, but I haven't heard it.

A few general playcalling observations:
Everybody keeps screaming for more play action. Okay, one possibility is those idiot NFL coaches can't seem to figure out that play action gives certain advantages to the offense by freezing the LBs. Or...they have a QB who can't process very quickly. He turns his back to the defense and when he turns around to square up he needs to process very quickly and make the throw. Play action gives a QB much less time to process the defensive rotations. Receivers on one side of the formation run routes designed to beat a certain coverage, and this is married to the other side which will run complementary routes. But knowing which side of the formation to look for requires knowing the coverage post snap--every defense shows one thing and then drops into another after the snap.
OLine blocking. They get a call in the huddle which will tell them the protection, which indicates what the drop will be for the QB. But the center and QB need to make adjustments to protection at the line. The OLine is definitely not strong this year, but this is a combination of factors including adjustments at the line. The QB plays a huge role in this. Remember the super bowl when the explosive Rams offense only scored 3 points? BB was using a defense that didn't declare until after McVay could no longer talk to Goff through the mic. This revealed the absolute disaster that Goff was for processing what the defense showed--he was completely lost. What did the Rams do? Trade for a QB would could process better and they won a super bowl.
I do not think Patricia is very good. The sequences and tendencies are disjointed and don't fool many defenses. But I also don't think Mac is very good either. His footwork sucks and he's horrible at arguably the most important part of QBing a team--recognition and processing the defensive rotations.

We had a draft guru that got killed when he talked about all these things predraft. Wonder what ever happened to him.

 

[Rob0729]

Trevor Lawrence entered the chat....

Sure. He is supposed to be a generational talent. But he is also lucky to be getting some good offensive coaching this year. He is the exact opposite of what happening to Jones. He is getting his McDaniels coaching this year after having his Patricia last year.

But still again, the overwhelming number of young highly drafted QBs who go from one OC and system in their rookie season to another year two flame out. And probably a large number of them would have turned into at least good QBs if they didn't have the instability of coaching and systems.

Hell, during the offseason I tried to convince myself that Patricia was a good move just because I trusted Belichick. But watching this year, I fear that Jones is totally ruined and will never hit his ceiling whether if that ceiling is only slightly better than he was last year or a top QB in the league. He came into the league with pretty good mechanics and a very good football mind. Now both of those of those things have regressed completely. Maybe it isn't so much because of the change at OC and system and more about that Patricia is such a disaster that not only cannot he not coach up his young QB, but he needs coaching himself on how to run an offense.

 

[mgteich]

Sure. He is supposed to be a generational talent. But he is also lucky to be getting some good offensive coaching this year. He is the exact opposite of what happening to Jones. He is getting his McDaniels coaching this year after having his Patricia last year.

But still again, the overwhelming number of young highly drafted QBs who go from one OC and system in their rookie season to another year two flame out. And probably a large number of them would have turned into at least good QBs if they didn't have the instability of coaching and systems.

Hell, during the offseason I tried to convince myself that Patricia was a good move just because I trusted Belichick. But watching this year, I fear that Jones is totally ruined and will never hit his ceiling whether if that ceiling is only slightly better than he was last year or a top QB in the league. He came into the league with pretty good mechanics and a very good football mind. Now both of those of those things have regressed completely. Maybe it isn't so much because of the change at OC and system and more about that Patricia is such a disaster that not only cannot he not coach up his young QB, but he needs coaching himself on how to run an offense.

I agree with your conclusion because I don't think that Belichick will bring in a top OC and allowing him to run the offensive show, including hiring coaches.

What if Jones were to have offensive coaching like the NYG or the jags or even KC?

I think that if this were the case, it would be likely that we would be extending Jones after the 2023 season. Now, it seems more likely that we will be trying to trade up with our 2023 top 10 pick to get a new QB.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

I agree with your conclusion because I don't think that Belichick will bring in a top OC and allowing him to run the offensive show, including hiring coaches.

I agree this is necessary
But I don’t understand why Bb doesn’t want to delegate some responsibility
Especially on offense nothing has worked and I think bb needs to admit he was involved in this offense heavily as well or do you think Patricia just thought this out by himself alone? Bb needs to focus on ST and defense as well as GM this is still enough to-do‘s

What if Jones were to have offensive coaching like the NYG or the jags or even KC?

I think that if this were the case, it would be likely that we would be extending Jones after the 2023 season. Now, it seems more likely that we will be trying to trade up with our 2023 top 10 pick to get a new QB.

 

[DSting]

I agree this is necessary
But I don’t understand why Bb doesn’t want to delegate some responsibility
Especially on offense nothing has worked and I think bb needs to admit he was involved in this offense heavily as well or do you think Patricia just thought this out by himself alone? Bb needs to focus on ST and defense as well as GM this is still enough to-do‘s

Did you read Wickersham’s book? It was entertaining for a Pats fan and I think he made a few good observations. BB tries to run the organization with every person being replaceable. Players, coaches, waterboys. He believes the system will create the wins. Dump Brady? The system will develop another QB. Lose McD? The system will work with another OC. The assembly line approach works to a degree but it has its own limitations. Super Bowls are won with statistical outliers, not above average players and coaches.

 

[Jim Beankie]

I don't think that many people realize how much Allen improved in his 2nd season, before Diggs, over his rookie one. The increase in his stats was dramatic. Allen was never viewed as an NFL ready QB and it showed, but his raw talent and athleticism improved his performance once he got those first 20 games in.

We're witnessing the opposite with Mac. His lack of raw talent and athleticism has outweighed his positives (decision making). He just can't make those tight window throws with enough zip that are needed when facing NFL caliber DBs. I believe he's lost confidence. Sure, the coaching situation hasn't helped at all, but to attribute 90% blame on them for his regression is just nonsense. We saw the beggining of this at the end of last season, when there weren't these excuses. Teams just don't fear him and it shows. On top of that, his theatrics are out of control. He's too emotional.

Makes sense. JAllen went from just plain terrible to good game manager in year 2 (10-6 as a starter). Sprinkle in that connection with Diggs, and you've got a top QB.

I can't believe I got to root for the GOAT QB for so long. That dude was an alchemist.

 

[Patsfan1958]

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[patsfanfromoversea]

Did you read Wickersham’s book? It was entertaining for a Pats fan and I think he made a few good observations. BB tries to run the organization with every person being replaceable. Players, coaches, waterboys. He believes the system will create the wins.

I don’t believe in system creating wins when you had an exceptional above the norm qb with Brady
We can see how good „the system“ is without the goat in the last 3 years
Maxbe not so much, this can hurt bb Legacy

Dump Brady? The system will develop another QB. Lose McD? The system will work with another OC. The assembly line approach works to a degree but it has its own limitations. Super Bowls are won with statistical outliers, not above average players and coaches.