An FYI On Mac Jones

[Tunescribe]

I agree, especially considering the way he worded it resulted in people writing outrageous headlines as fact given that it was just an obvious opinion and it spread across the internet. But overall, I don't think he's as well connected on the day-to-day stuff now that his son isn't there anymore, so I don't know how relevant some of it is. Which, as you said, is too bad because I always thought he provided some pretty good insight.

My main point is he's been employed by teams and worked with coaches in meeting rooms, etc. So he has sufficient nuts-and-bolts working knowledge to wisely leave room for at least two of those three Baltimore interceptions (and the Miami game pick off Parker in the end zone) not being 100-percent on Mac. Even if his son isn't there he must have other connections near the team to get input from, even if they're other media guys like Bedard. At least with me, his prestige took a nosedive on that take.

 

[Wozzy]

Sure, and he sure had competition at Alabama, and was able to win and keep the job.


You lost me here. I've commented a lot about the INTs and how much BB preaches ball security, but at no point did I get the feeling Mac was close to being benched. For who? Hoyer? Really? It's not like he's free of INTs in his career nor better at delivering the ball. He also doesn't have a great pocket presence or really any mobility at all. Zappe only emerged because the two QBs ahead of him got injured, otherwise he'd still be on the PS roster. At least has the fact that his upside is unknown going for him, but that's about it.

Zappe and Hoyer got the same amount of practice reps the week after Mac got hurt. Hoyer was always going to get the first shot but the leash would be short. Zappe was never on the practice squad… at no point.

Personally, I don't know if Mac is good with "hard coaching" like Tom was, or if he's the kind of person who is more driven by logic rather than emotion.

Regardless, I would think his Alabama experience had to give him a tough skin.

He wasn’t playing well, he was turning the ball over and losing games because of it. He needs to play better or even if he is handed his starting job back, he’ll quickly lose it if he continues down the path he was on.

 

[Bill Lee]

Zappe and Hoyer got the same amount of practice reps the week after Mac got hurt. Hoyer was always going to get the first shot but the leash would be short. Zappe was never on the practice squad… at no point.

He wasn’t playing well, he was turning the ball over and losing games because of it. He needs to play better or even if he is handed his starting job back, he’ll quickly lose it if he continues down the path he was on.

I appreciate your comments. We're largely in agreement, just in some disagreement about degree.

I think It comes down to how short a leash Mac is on.

It seems to me you feel he's on the edge of losing his job due to INTs. I feel the INTs are a major concern, but the coaching staff probably feels he's still in a learning phase and has a pretty long leash since they presume he still has a lot of upside and he'll learn from his mistakes and because this season is mostly a rebuilding year.

I'm willing to admit I'm wrong if that's how things play out, but as I wrote in an earlier post on his podcast Phil Perry said he asked a coach if Mac could lose his job to Bailey, and that coach just laughed.

On that same podcast Phil and Tom Curran discussed the notion that if watching how Zappe is playing could be a guide to Mac and they largely agreed. There's definitely elements in his game worth emulating.

 

[Kasmir]

Zappe was never on the practice squad… at no point.

Yeah "game day inactive" /== "practice squad". Even before his performance these last two weeks Zappe would never had made it to the practice squad. Too many bad QB's on NFL rosters.

Also remember that Brady was kept as the 4th QB on the roster in 2000. BB isn't stupid enough to risk losing a promising QB prospect to waivers.

 

[Wozzy]

I appreciate your comments. We're largely in agreement, just in some disagreement about degree.

I think It comes down to how short a leash Mac is on.

It seems to me you feel he's on the edge of losing his job due to INTs. I feel the INTs are a major concern, but the coaching staff probably feels he's still in a learning phase and has a pretty long leash since they presume he still has a lot of upside and he'll learn from his mistakes and because this season is mostly a rebuilding year.

I'm willing to admit I'm wrong if that's how things play out, but as I wrote in an earlier post on his podcast Phil Perry said he asked a coach if Mac could lose his job to Bailey, and that coach just laughed.

On that same podcast Phil and Tom Curran discussed the notion that if watching how Zappe is playing could be a guide to Mac and they largely agreed. There's definitely elements in his game worth emulating.

The most important stat in football is points.

The second most important stat is turnovers, because nothing correlates more to points.

Mike Lombardi suggested a week before I did Mac was in danger of losing his job and I disagreed.

Before the Baltimore game ended and before he was even hurt I agreed with Lombardi’s assessment. Mac looked bad.

Mike is Bills best bud and his son is on the coaching staff. He said he had no inside knowledge when he suggested this, he didn’t need it. Mac was being reckless with the ball. Bill won’t put up with that for long, he certainly won’t now knowing Zappe is on the bench and they can use him as a game manager.

 

[Bill Lee]

The most important stat in football is points.

The second most important stat is turnovers, because nothing correlates more to points.

Mike Lombardi suggested a week before I did Mac was in danger of losing his job and I disagreed.

Before the Baltimore game ended and before he was even hurt I agreed with Lombardi’s assessment. Mac looked bad.

Mike is Bills best bud and his son is on the coaching staff. He said he had no inside knowledge when he suggested this, he didn’t need it. Mac was being reckless with the ball. Bill won’t put up with that for long, he certainly won’t now knowing Zappe is on the bench and they can use him as a game manager.

Like I said, it seems we're not quite in agreement on how close Mac is to losing his job.

I wrote a similar thing to what you are saying on Monday:

Incredible passes and precision plays get erased quickly by a few bad decisions that produce INTs.

I'm still a huge fan of Mac, but he's gotta clean up his game or he could end up on the bench.

One thing BB preaches is the first step to winning football is not beating yourself.

Source: As a Bills fan, Zappe scares me

It just seems to me we disagree on how close that potential benching may or may not be.

What you just termed as recklessness I see as a part of the learning process. While I think Bill does not worry about draft pedigree, he does have to consider the risk of undermining a player's confidence by benching him. I think he realizes if he switches from Mac to Bailey it'll be hard to switch back, because then he'll be undermining two player's confidences. I think he's taking a longer term view (it's not just about this season) and would only make such a switch (outside of some garbage time minutes) if its very clear to him that Bailey is the long term solution and Mac is not, again, because once you make such a switch it's hard to switch back.

And I'm willing to be wrong and willing to go along for the ride with Team Bailey if I am wrong, but I don't think we're there yet.

PS: Mick Lombardi is no longer on the NE staff, he went to LV with JMcD and is his offensive coordinator.

 

[BB8XSBW]

STAT	Mac Jones	Bailey Zappe
Avg. Target Depth	10.4	7.1
Tight Window %	26.8%	16.7%
Play-Action %	10.8%	37.5%

On Zappe's 40 drop-backs this season, he has attempted only six tight-window throws (16.7%), and the rookie has yet to complete any balls into tight coverage. His average target depth is 7.1 yards, 37.5 percent of his passes have come off play-action, and Zappe was only pressured on two of his 22 drop-backs against the Lions. Compared to what they asked from Jones, as you'd expect, it's apples to oranges.

 

[Real fan 02]

How about we get Mac Jones some weapons to build his confidence?

Why does Tua get to play with Hill and Waddle?

Allen has Diggs?

Even Kyle Wilson has 2022 8th overall pick Garrett Wilson and Elijah Moore

We have weapons, Yes mac needs a bona-fide number 1 got too.. on this team is Myers! Diggs was traded for, Waddle was drafted and hill of course traded for.. and those players all have 1 thing in common they commanded big pay days. something the patriots aren't going to do.. simple answer is why Mac doesn't have a premiere receiver.. Diggs seems like he's always open..

 

[p8ryts]

We have weapons, Yes mac needs a bona-fide number 1 got too.. on this team is Myers! Diggs was traded for, Waddle was drafted and hill of course traded for.. and those players all have 1 thing in common they commanded big pay days. something the patriots aren't going to do.. simple answer is why Mac doesn't have a premiere receiver.. Diggs seems like he's always open..

I don't care who the QB is. I want him to stay in the pocket, step up in the pocket and not look panicky. Zappe did that last week, granted it was Detroit. Mac can do it, he just needs to do it. He has looked skittish. He needs to stop rushing things. NFL passing pockets are seldom perfect, there will always be some level of pressure. He needs to do a better job responding to it.

 

[Thelonious]

Given that the backup has by most measures outplayed the starter, presently injured, OF COURSE there is the prospect that at some point the backup could take the starting role. No coach has historically placed greater emphasis on competition for starting roles, irrespective of past history or standing, than Bill Belichick. That there is the prospect of such a competition is ALL we know. The rest is just gibberish.

 

[venecol]

The fact you're trying SO hard with this stuff suggests you truly are a Trojan horse surreptitiously sent from Lord Dis Array's Tampa Bay forum to foment mischief and discord. It's not working.

 

[Tunescribe]

I don't care who the QB is. I want him to stay in the pocket, step up in the pocket and not look panicky. Zappe did that last week, granted it was Detroit. Mac can do it, he just needs to do it. He has looked skittish. He needs to stop rushing things. NFL passing pockets are seldom perfect, there will always be some level of pressure. He needs to do a better job responding to it.

The OL has shown better signs of coming together the last two games. If they stay healthy, you'll see what you want in QB play as well.

 

[venecol]

STAT	Mac Jones	Bailey Zappe
Avg. Target Depth	10.4	7.1
Tight Window %	26.8%	16.7%
Play-Action %	10.8%	37.5%

Those are fascinating stats except for the fact Mac hasn't been successful in them. I blame Patricia.

 

[venecol]

It's sad to see all the posters that bought Mac Jones jerseys get triggered by opinions on Zappe's performance. Nobody in these threads is saying Mac isn't QB1, aside from Belichick of course, who refuses to say so.

 

[Tunescribe]

It's sad to see all the posters that bought Mac Jones jerseys get triggered by opinions on Zappe's performance. Nobody in these threads is saying Mac isn't QB1, aside from Belichick of course, who refuses to say so.

 

[BB8XSBW]

Those are fascinating stats except for the fact Mac hasn't been successful in them. I blame Patricia.

I don't know why literally everyone here, without any exception whatsoever, treats you like some leper that is to be kicked aside and discarded. They need to appreciate you more, for your complete and total mockery of this team's haters, by way of making the most outrageous posts possible, just like the haters would make, has been a thing of beauty. Your satire truly underscores how imbecilic they are, and the fact that you have skillfully managed to make the forum believe that you mean what you say is worthy of my praise, my friend. You are quickly shooting up the ranks of my favorite posters on here.

 

[venecol]

I don't know why literally everyone here, without any exception whatsoever, treats you like some leper that is to be kicked aside and discarded. They need to appreciate you more, for your complete and total mockery of this team's haters, by way of making the most outrageous posts possible, just like the haters would make, has been a thing of beauty. Your satire truly underscores how imbecilic they are, and the fact that you have skillfully managed to make the forum believe that you mean what you say is worthy of my praise, my friend. You are quickly shooting up the ranks of my favorite posters on here.

Coming from you, I'll take that as a compliment.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Belichick will be surprisingly forthright at times. He's not incapable of making a statement like the one I suggested if he has conviction and feels strongly that way.

If he truly had no doubt that Jones will be the starter when he's healthy, I think he would've said as much because it's not lost on him the impact that could have on Jones' confidence and the message it'd send to the team.

Now, maybe he thinks it's likely Jones will continue starting but wants to remain noncommittal in order to put a little heat underneath him to see how he responds to some competition (real or perceived). And if he thinks that's what Jones needs right now, that should tell us something. Or, like I said, maybe he is being completely honest that he does not know and they'll make that decision when they get there.

I have no issue if folks think Jones is the better option right now but I don't think any second year player in his position should be assumed to be the automatic starter by default at this point.

I also am not totally sure about Jones seeing the field well all the time. I think he reads pre-snap defenses very well. I think he has great aptitude and does his homework, gets the offense into the right look before the snap. I think he's cerebral and heady. But going back to last season, and including the start of this one, he's had several INTs that have been throw right to an underneath defender who he completely completely lost track of. Seems that's something he needs to work on, keeping track of underneath defenders.

Zappe's arm strength isn't far off Jones at all. They're quite similar. Zappe has more zip on his short-to-intermediate throws to my subjective eye test, Jones can probably get the ball further on a single heave downfield. "Demonstrably less arm strength"? Don't think so. I bet if you measured the speed on Zappe's throws, they're going to be right in Jones' range. AFAIK there is no demonstrable evidence that Zappe's passes are traveling significantly slower than Jones' - just our own perception from watching them play. Zappe is not functionally less athletic than Jones from what I've seen. That's fine, we can watch the same thing and feel different ways.

We'll see how it plays out.

@Triumph posted:

Dan Orlovsky from ESPN was on Merloni, Fauria & Mego today and he was asked for his thoughts on the QB situation in New England. Here are some quotes/notes from his interview:

• He believes that Zappe did a great job of not losing the game for the Patriots. He also says that he watched tape and Zappe only really had to make one "NFL throw"(the TD pass to Jakobi). Meaning, the rest of his throws were screens, dump offs, or just hitting his first read quickly.
• He had some high praise of the 2 guards in New England (Onwenu & Strange):
  "I've talked this for a few weeks now... Inside, their two guards, is as good as anyone's in the league"
• When asked about Bill not declaring Mac the starter in his press conference today:
  "Listen, I will be very clear. There is absolutely no shot that Bailey Zappe even sniffs becoming the starting quarterback for the New England Patriots as long as Mac Jones is on the team. That is not a knock to Bailey Zappe. But Mac Jones has the chance to be a very very good longterm NFL pro, and he's proven it."
• "Coach Belichick knows football better than anybody in the history of the planet. I don't think he's sitting there going, 'Well, we played good one game against a team that, right now, is the softest defense in the NFL in Green Bay. And then we played solid offensively against a team that had given up more points and yards than anybody in the NFL. Great. We've got a superstar at quarterback'."
• "There's no reality here that makes Bailey Zappe a threat, or potential person, to unseat Mac Jones"
• "Mac plays significantly faster both physically and mentally. Mac can cancel out things pre-snap in such a short amount of time. He has a way quicker delivery. His ball placement is significantly better... His ability to diagnose post snap movement and coverage... He's elite at this stuff. He's not good at it, he's ELITE at it."
• "While Bailey might do a couple of those things well, or good, certainly in the short body of work that we have of him, we've got a year in the NFL and 2+ years in college of watching Mac do this stuff... there's a reason one was a 1st round pick and one was a... 4th round pick."
• "There's so much physically and mentally that Mac does consistently, at a significantly higher level, than Bailey does"

Where do you get your information?

 

[NG Pats Fan]

We have weapons, Yes mac needs a bona-fide number 1 got too.. on this team is Myers! Diggs was traded for, Waddle was drafted and hill of course traded for.. and those players all have 1 thing in common they commanded big pay days. something the patriots aren't going to do.. simple answer is why Mac doesn't have a premiere receiver.. Diggs seems like he's always open..

We allocated 56.25 million to two TEs we barely use . Can’t use that money on a Diggs?

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Even Kyle Wilson has 2022 8th overall pick Garrett Wilson and Elijah Moore

Corey Davis is no slouch either, and Breece Hall looks to be the real deal at RB