Patriots Injury News Thornton injury update

[crawhammer]

Sooooo good article from NESN about K. Bourne being "disgruntled," for what it's worth.

If it's how that article makes it sound, he wasn't too happy with the new offense install. Again, for what it is worth, For all we know, it's pure speculation or made up out of thin air. But it would certainly answer some questions.

For fun, let's speculate a Bourne trade, and use of 2 designations for Wilkerson and Thornton. So once the time passes and we have moved Thornton & Wilkerson to the IR...

1) Parker
2) Meyers
3) Agholor
4) Nixon vs. Humphry
5) Ty Montgomery swiss army knife
6) Slater

... or, Nixon and Humphrey if you keep 7.

Jesus we have a lot of receivers you could see productinig. Maybe I am just inflating performance vs. 2s and 3s.

That list looks rather weak without Bourne. Meyers a #2? Yikes. Nixon looks as ordinary as they come. Lil'Jordan is intriguing because of his size. And Slater... why would anyone put him on a list of WRs?

Trading Bourne is a really bad idea.

 

[crawhammer]

O-line, running game and defense stunk in 1999. Belichick also laid the blueprint of harassing Bledsoe with delayed blitzes up the middle.

Bledsoe was very uncomfortable under center a ton in 2000 because Damien Woody couldn't snap the ball out of the shotgun. No running game in 2000 and a very shaky O-line. Bledsoe didn't fit the offense. However, after one good season with Buffalo in 2002, he started to implode.

Vintateri was a very inconsistent kicker before 2001. That missed would be game winning kick in KC in 1999 still pisses me off.

If Bledsoe was such a slob (whose weaknesses were "exposed by Belichick") then why did Bill agree with signing him to a mega 10-year contract?

Perhaps the '99 team had other issues but Bledsoe was an utter disaster. He wasn't any better with Bill as the HC either so I'm not sure Carroll needs to be held accountable for Bledsoe's awfulness. Bledsoe also completely fell apart in 2002... his "one good season" in Buffalo.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I never said anything about the team eroding.

You didn't. I did.

The drafts yielded enough good players.

My original (and only point) was that those 4 drafts yielded some Pro Bowlers in guys like Bruschi, Glenn, Milloy, Woody, and some very good players like Faulk, Spires, Edwards, etc.

Once again, 1996 doesn't count. Not sure why you keep including them when I specifically said "during the Carroll years".

Carroll needed "NOW" players to save his job but there wasn't enough. The roster was bad dude which he/Grier was to blame.

 

[TheRainMaker]

If Bledsoe was such a slob (whose weaknesses were "exposed by Belichick") then why did Bill agree with signing him to a mega 10-year contract?

Bob Kraft.

Perhaps the '99 team had other issues but Bledsoe was an utter disaster. He wasn't any better with Bill as the HC either so I'm not sure Carroll needs to be held accountable for Bledsoe's awfulness. Bledsoe also completely fell apart in 2002... his "one good season" in Buffalo.

He went to the Pro Bowl in 2002. He was 2nd in yards and 7th in TD's. Come on now.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

That list looks rather weak without Bourne. Meyers a #2? Yikes. Nixon looks as ordinary as they come. Lil'Jordan is intriguing because of his size. And Slater... why would anyone put him on a list of WRs?

Trading Bourne is a really bad idea.

Welp, reportedly Bourne is not a fan of the offense NE will run in 2022, so the relationship changes.

Meyers actually was the 1 last year - 866 yards vs. 800 for Bourne. He is also the only Patriots pass catcher who could get anywhere with Cam Newton under center, which should tell you he's pretty damn reliable.

I didn't necessarily "rank" these receivers, so your belief that our number 1 last year can't be a 2 this year is perhaps right in the opposite direction; it might be ridiculous to assume he'll be a 2 becsause he'll be a 1. In addition to outproducing Bourne, Meyers also outproduced Parker and of course Agholor, who appears to be poised to bounce back, he also far outproduced Parker (by more than 300 yards.)

He's the unsexy pick but he's been going the right direction since his undrafted free agent butt landed in the NFL via New England. So apologies if your handy draft guide from CVS or draft guru web page says he didn't have the career start that he had, but he's better than the rest of our 2s.

The problem going into this season isn't that Meyers will continue to be a middling talent, a "2" as we talk about it here. The problem is that none of the existent 2s look like reliable possibilities to be a poor man's no. 1, and I include Parker, based on his limited production most years to date.

Thornton brings something special in that regard. I am crossing my fingers that there is no causal relationship between his gracile proportions and his injury, I would love for this injury to be the anomaly rather than a regular occurence.

Edit - I would look forward to seeing Nixon as a first stringer. You might not think he's anything special, but he makes plays. Humphreys is interesting as you say.

In including Slater as a WR spot, I am following other posters' lead -- we have plenty of prospects to fill the spot with if you imagine the issue to be too many roster spots for our receivers rather than vice versa. To me, it's more a problem that we tend to expect people to be rostered as WR, not roster ST players as anything, and expect to just magically have leftover spaces. Gotta count them somewhere.

 

[crawhammer]

Bob Kraft.

Are we supposed to believe that Robert Kraft signed Drew Bledsoe to be Belichick's quarterback for a decade without Belichick's ok? I don't believe that for one second. Also, months later Belichick would opt for sticking with a 6th round quarterback over the $100 million dollar man. I don't think Kraft is allowing that if just months earlier he was telling Bill that Bledsoe would be the franchise quarterback for the next decade.

He went to the Pro Bowl in 2002. He was 2nd in yards and 7th in TD's. Come on now.

Bledsoe averaged 350 passing yards over the first 5 games of the 2002 season. By midseason he had 14 TDs and 5 INTs... Buffalo was 5-3 and Bledsoe was arguably an MVP candidate. However, then the second half of the season happened... Buffalo's record flipped to 3-5... in the 5 losses their offense averaged 10 points per game with Bledsoe having 4 TDs and 10 INTs. In one of the 3 wins he was 11-33 for 107. It seems very much like Bledsoe fell apart by the end of the 2002 season. He was terrible for the remainder of his career too.

Welp, reportedly Bourne is not a fan of the offense NE will run in 2022, so the relationship changes.

Meyers actually was the 1 last year - 866 yards vs. 800 for Bourne. He is also the only Patriots pass catcher who could get anywhere with Cam Newton under center, which should tell you he's pretty damn reliable.

I didn't necessarily "rank" these receivers, so your belief that our number 1 last year can't be a 2 this year is perhaps right in the opposite direction; it might be ridiculous to assume he'll be a 2 becsause he'll be a 1. In addition to outproducing Bourne, Meyers also outproduced Parker and of course Agholor, who appears to be poised to bounce back, he also far outproduced Parker (by more than 300 yards.)

He's the unsexy pick but he's been going the right direction since his undrafted free agent butt landed in the NFL via New England. So apologies if your handy draft guide from CVS or draft guru web page says he didn't have the career start that he had, but he's better than the rest of our 2s.

The problem going into this season isn't that Meyers will continue to be a middling talent, a "2" as we talk about it here. The problem is that none of the existent 2s look like reliable possibilities to be a poor man's no. 1, and I include Parker, based on his limited production most years to date.

Thornton brings something special in that regard. I am crossing my fingers that there is no causal relationship between his gracile proportions and his injury, I would love for this injury to be the anomaly rather than a regular occurence.

Edit - I would look forward to seeing Nixon as a first stringer. You might not think he's anything special, but he makes plays. Humphreys is interesting as you say.

In including Slater as a WR spot, I am following other posters' lead -- we have plenty of prospects to fill the spot with if you imagine the issue to be too many roster spots for our receivers rather than vice versa. To me, it's more a problem that we tend to expect people to be rostered as WR, not roster ST players as anything, and expect to just magically have leftover spaces. Gotta count them somewhere.

Slater does not count as a WR... not even in the sense of "gotta count'em somewhere."

I like Kendrick Bourne and I'm willing to overlook him being a possible part-time headcase. He was the team's best WR last season and it wasn't even close. He's certainly better than Meyers. If you're looking at numbers then consider his catch percentage was much higher than Meyer's (78.6% to 65.9%). He's faster, has better hands, is more versatile, and he's a bigger downfield and TD threat.

Bourne and Parker should be the #1 and #2 WRs in whatever order you want to put them... they're a legit duo to start with. Thornton is reportedly done for nearly half of the season so who knows what the offense will look like by then or how he'll fit in. Agholor is the #3 at this point... he has the ability and experience to fill that spot... although his main issue throughout his career - his hands - could still be a problem. I like what I've seen of Humphrey to this point. His size is a plus and I'd like to see him get some consistent reps behind the top 3 WRs. I like Wilkerson over Nixon but I'm not sure either will contribute much this season. I think Meyers will be a moderate contributor but if he's actually being looked at as the #1 or #2 then we're all overrating the WR room.

 

[Zuma]

Welp, reportedly Bourne is not a fan of the offense NE will run in 2022…

Who reported this ?

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Who reported this ?

Greg Bedard. Since he’s behind a paywall, I’m linking to the crappy NESN summary instead.
Kendrick Bourne Trade? Why Patriots Receiver Reportedly Is Disgruntled

 

[upstater1]

You didn't. I did.


Once again, 1996 doesn't count. Not sure why you keep including them when I specifically said "during the Carroll years".

Carroll needed "NOW" players to save his job but there wasn't enough. The roster was bad dude which he/Grier was to blame.

Let's end this because I can see nowhere in my post where I talk about erosion or anything like that.

You even quote me here saying they drafted good players. That's all I've been saying. I've even listed the players so I have no idea what else you want.

The 1996 draft is listed for obvious reasons. Grier selected those players and you even have Grier in this latest post.

It's the whole point of what we're talking about.

The players selected in those 4 drafts by Grier were not as bad as generally thought.

 

[captain stone]

Who reported this ?

Greg Bedard. Since he’s behind a paywall, I’m linking to the crappy NESN summary instead.
Kendrick Bourne Trade? Why Patriots Receiver Reportedly Is Disgruntled

The new features being added to the offense should be right up Bourne's alley... I don't understand why he would be unhappy with that...

 

[crawhammer]

I don't think it matters much whether or not Bourne likes the "new offense." He's a good receiver, the Patriots need him, and once the season starts and he's hauling in meaningful receptions, he'll be fine. Also I would hope the team has strong enough infrastructure and leadership where they could handle a "reportedly disgruntled" player.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't think it matters much whether or not Bourne likes the "new offense." He's a good receiver, the Patriots need him, and once the season starts and he's hauling in meaningful receptions, he'll be fine. Also I would hope the team has strong enough infrastructure and leadership where they could handle a "reportedly disgruntled" player.

Sometimes players can't be saved.

 

[TheRainMaker]

 

[crawhammer]

Sometimes players can't be saved.

Is that really where it's at? Seems a little extreme. Supposedly there was some sort of noticeable confrontation between Bourne and Belichick during a practice but if that were a terminable offense then I think we would know it by now. If we're doing "what's in the best interest of the team" then I think that's making it work with Bourne on the roster because they're a better offense with him. We want to win some games this season, right? Their margin for error is slim already.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Is that really where it's at? Seems a little extreme. Supposedly there was some sort of noticeable confrontation between Bourne and Belichick during a practice but if that were a terminable offense then I think we would know it by now. If we're doing "what's in the best interest of the team" then I think that's making it work with Bourne on the roster because they're a better offense with him. We want to win some games this season, right? Their margin for error is slim already.

Who knows about Bourne but your assertion that current leadership (or any leadership for that matter) can manage/sooth every disgruntled player or corner-case malcontent is not realistic.

 

[Grogan14]

The Bourne case is truly bizarre. Just a few months ago he was the happiest motivated guy, pumping up Mac Jones and the Patriots organization. What the hell happened? Even if the Pats completely changed the offense....why would Bourne suddenly turn diva and pout? Unless he believes he was misled about his role in the offense last year when he signed and now that McDaniels is gone he has been told he is going to be #4 or 5 on the depth chart?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The Bourne case is truly bizarre. Just a few months ago he was the happiest motivated guy, pumping up Mac Jones and the Patriots organization. What the hell happened? Even if the Pats completely changed the offense....why would Bourne suddenly turn diva and pout? Unless he believes he was misled about his role in the offense last year when he signed and now that McDaniels is gone he has been told he is going to be #4 or 5 on the depth chart?

There's was a video of Bourne at Mac's draft party complaining about Bill trading down...I don't know if he's in Bill's dog house because of that.

 

[TheRainMaker]

There's was a video of Bourne at Mac's draft party complaining about Bill drafting Cole Strange...I don't know if he's in Bill's dog house because of that.

Is this a joke?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Is this a joke?

No, he wasn't upset...he was just like "Bill, Bill...c'mon." Honestly, I think it had more to do with the trade down than anything..

See at 19:22, he looks annoyed at the trade down

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I don't think that the watch party can be the primary source of friction. I think happy, motivated Bourne was present until training camp. It seems like something was a problem there. Off the top of my head the candidates that I have seen referenced - his reputation as not being a good practice player burned him when the competition brought their a game, slow to adjust to new offense, fight in practice and the equipment violation/angry exchange with BB. Unless the relationship is completely fractured, injuries have created the opportunity to get things right. To me it comes back to his effort in practice and having to earn his way onto the field. BB pretty much said as much.