Is our defense this good?

[Wozzy]

You are bending over backwards to try and disprove history. Let me know how it works out for you

Look I said let's agree to disagree three times already.

You think Malcolm Butler is great, history says he went to Tennessee after being statistically one of the worst starting CB's in the league in 2017 and he got benched for their nickel corner Adoree Jackson... he got benched! They had buyer's remorse for giving him that contract and had one of the worst defensive backfields in the NFL for years. But yeah... athleticism doesn't actually matter because Butler won a popularity contest one year.

Again... for the 4th time... agree to disagree.

 

[All3Phases]

Look I said let's agree to disagree three times already.

You think Malcolm Butler is great, history says he went to Tennessee after being statistically one of the worst starting CB's in the league in 2017 and he got benched for their nickel corner Adoree Jackson... he got benched! They had buyers remorse for giving him that contract and had one of the worst defensive backfields in the NFL for years. But yeah... athleticism doesn't actually matter because Butler won a popularity contest one year.

Again... for the 4th time... agree to disagree.

You can stop responding any time you want. I said he was great in 2016. Factually he was. I dont care what he did after.

 

[Pats2000]

Will you? You realized they finished off the year last year playing mostly zone heavy defense right?

They didn't have a choice mainly because of Jones being out and the LB's being slow as molasses. They weren't getting torched on the outside, they were getting killed over the middle and in the slot

 

[TommyD4207]

Will you come back and admit you're wrong when they are in man coverage over 50% of the time

I think they will play substantially more zone than they have in years past.

That said, even when they're in their typical man-heavy scheme, that still translates to ~50% of the time, they play straight man coverage. KC was far and away the highest percentage last year ~ around 63%.

 

[Wozzy]

You can stop responding any time you want. I said he was great in 2016. Factually he was. I dont care what he did after.

He won a popularity contest... good for him.

He's never been great, he's was "good" or even "very good" for two seasons on the best team in the league... then fell back to Earth.

He was an UDFA who ran a 4.62 forty at his Pro Day... one team out of 32 called him while he was working the fry station at Popeyes... one.

Pretending he was better at any point than 10th overall pick in the draft Gilmore is nonsense... clueless nonsense.

 

[All3Phases]

They didn't have a choice mainly because of Jones being out and the LB's being slow as molasses. They weren't getting torched on the outside, they were getting killed over the middle and in the slot

They didnt have a choice because their slot corner got hurt? Their boundary corners were Mills and an All Pro. The All Pro is gone. Mills is not a great press man corner, which lies the problem. They had 1 corner after Jones got hurt that was capable of playing man, so they switched. That one guy is no longer here. The linebackers have 0 do to with it.

 

[All3Phases]

He won a popularity contest... good for him.

He's never been great, he's was "good" or even "very good" for two seasons on the best team in the league... then fell back to Earth.

He was an UDFA who ran a 4.62 forty at his Pro Day... one team out of 32 called him while he was working the fry station at Popeyes... one.

Pretending he was better at any point than 10th overall pick in the draft Gilmore is nonsense... clueless nonsense.

All Pros dont matter, your opinion does.

 

[TommyD4207]

He won a popularity contest... good for him.

He's never been great, he's was "good" or even "very good" for two seasons on the best team in the league... then fell back to Earth.

He was an UDFA who ran a 4.62 forty at his Pro Day... one team out of 32 called him while he was working the fry station at Popeyes... one.

Pretending he was better at any point than 10th overall pick in the draft Gilmore is nonsense... clueless nonsense.

This.

Butler is a NE Legend for his play in the Super Bowl (overall play, I might add, not just the one).

Steph Gilmore is going to get Hall of Fame votes. The only way Malcolm Butler gets there is with a ticket in hand.

 

[All3Phases]

This.

Butler is a NE Legend for his play in the Super Bowl (overall play, I might add, not just the one).

Steph Gilmore is going to get Hall of Fame votes. The only way Malcolm Butler gets there is with a ticket in hand.

Literally not one person has said Butler was better than Gilmore

 

[TommyD4207]

Literally not one person has said Butler was better than Gilmore

The point is, there's a reason Belichick spent a record amount at the time for a CB to get Gilmore, when Butler was still on the roster. If Butler was as good as you're making him out to be, it wouldn't have been necessary.

 

[All3Phases]

The point is, there's a reason Belichick spent a record amount at the time for a CB to get Gilmore, when Butler was still on the roster. If Butler was as good as you're making him out to be, it wouldn't have been necessary.

Im not making him out to be anything, he was an all pro in 2016, was he not? That is representative of the type of year he had. I never said he was better than player A or B. I said in 2016 he was great. I think everybody agrees he was never as good the years after that.

 

[Pats2000]

They didnt have a choice because their slot corner got hurt? Their boundary corners were Mills and an All Pro. The All Pro is gone. Mills is not a great press man corner, which lies the problem. They had 1 corner after Jones got hurt that was capable of playing man, so they switched. That one guy is no longer here. The linebackers have 0 do to with it.

I like how you are intellectually dishonest, they lost their slot corner and Bryant was getting abused. Their LB's were also old and slow and couldn't cover for sh*t. So yes, they had to switch to zone so the middle of the defense could keep the field in front of them. They also couldn't stop the run, so zone was really their only option.

 

[All3Phases]

I like how you are intellectually dishonest, they lost their slot corner and Bryant was getting abused. Their LB's were also old and slow and couldn't cover for sh*t. So yes, they had to switch to zone so the middle of the defense could keep the field in front of them. They also couldn't stop the run, so zone was really their only option.

I am not dishonest in the slightest. Linebackers dont determine your coverage, unless they never plan on taking them off the field. Their linebackers have been big and slow for a decade and have played more man than anybody. As they did through the first 7 weeks of last year, with the same slow LBs. They switched to zone, because after Jones got hurt, that left them with 1 corner who was a good man corner. Who is no longer on the roster. Mitchell played primarily zone last year, Mills is not a press man corner. Read the tea leaves. You can believe whatever youd like though. Totally fine with me

 

[Wozzy]

All Pros dont matter, your opinion does.

I never claimed it was anything except my opinion.

It was also BB's opinion, and that's why he paid a free agent from another team in Gilmore instead of the guy on his own team who he watched for years in practice in Butler.

I could name multiple corners who were better than Butler at that point who were on lesser or even bad teams... Butler got a 2nd team All Pro nod because his team eventually won the Super Bowl... because they were the best defense.

 

[All3Phases]

I never claimed it was anything except my opinion.

It was also BB's opinion, and that's why he paid a free agent from another team in Gilmore instead of the guy on his own team who he watched in practice for years in Butler.

I could name multiple corners who were better than Butler at that point who were on lesser or even bad teams... Butler got a 2nd team All Pro nod because his team eventually won the Super Bowl... because they were the best defense.

BB didnt pay him 2 years after he made an all pro team. Again youre confusing that with me saying he was better than all other great corners. I said he clearly had a great year in 2016. AJ Terrell made the 2nd team this year, was that because his team was good? Revis made it in 2011, the Jets were 4-12. The guy can have a great year, its ok

 

[amfootball]

BB didnt pay him 2 years after he made an all pro team. Again youre confusing that with me saying he was better than all other great corners. I said he clearly had a great year in 2016. AJ Terrell made the 2nd team this year, was that because his team was good? Revis made it in 2011, the Jets were 4-12. The guy can have a great year, its ok

IIRC, Butler was a restricted FA but wanted his big deal a year early. This is what led to Bill souring on him and signing Gilmore.

 

[Wozzy]

IIRC, Butler was a restricted FA but wanted his big deal a year early. This is what led to Bill souring on him and signing Gilmore.

Butler was in year 4 in 2017, he was in his negotiation year. BB paid Gilmore instead.

Gilmore was a better player... period.

 

[All3Phases]

Butler was in year 4 in 2017, he was in his negotiation year. BB paid Gilmore instead.

Gilmore was a better player... period.

I think everybody applauds that decision and nobody disagrees that Gilmore is a better player. Prime Gilmore is no longer on this roster however.

You now need to hope Terrance Mitchell, Butler or Mills have really good year individually. Which was my point

 

[amfootball]

Butler was in year 4 in 2017, he was in his negotiation year. BB paid Gilmore instead.

Gilmore was a better player... period.

No question Gilmore was better but I think if Butler did not make a stink about wanting the new big deal as a RFA then I don't think Bill signs Gilmore. JMO.

 

[Pats2000]

I am not dishonest in the slightest. Linebackers dont determine your coverage, unless they never plan on taking them off the field. Their linebackers have been big and slow for a decade and have played more man than anybody. As they did through the first 7 weeks of last year, with the same slow LBs. They switched to zone, because after Jones got hurt, that left them with 1 corner who was a good man corner. Who is no longer on the roster. Mitchell played primarily zone last year, Mills is not a press man corner. Read the tea leaves. You can believe whatever youd like though. Totally fine with me

They determine your coverage if you can't cover anything over the middle.