PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Wide Receivers depth chart

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes, if Thornton is good enough to be a #3 WR, Agholor is gone. I can't see him on the roster as a #4 or even competing for 3/4. Myers could take that role.

That being said, if Thornton shows a lot, I think that the team will try to extend either Myers or Agholor, setting us for 2022 and 2023.

Not sure I agree. Nixon, Thornton (if they pop), Bourne, and Parker is plenty going forward with Smith and Henry. I think BB will let Agholor and Meyers walk. If Nixon (or Wilkerson) do not pop, they resign Meyers. Meyers is more of a system guy that a lot of teams are not going to be too excited about (lacks athleticism) like Edelman getting little interest in FA.
 
Does Meyers look like a typical slot guy, he's an inch taller than Wilkerson?

I like Wilkerson in the slot (potentially, if he has worked on his hands) because his agility/mobility is next level... the best of all our WR's. Can he play outside at 6'1," sure. But they have Parker outside and that's where he (generally) belongs, stressing out the defense with his physicality out there. They have Agholor but potentially other speed guys (Nixon, Thornton) on the other side of the field, and that's where they belong stressing the defense and stretching the field using their speed.

Those two bookends make covering a guy with exceptional agility inside an impossible cover. Remember that Edelman's most defining trait was his agility/mobility... he wasn't insanely fast, but his agility was comparable or better even than the Tyreek Hills and Brandin Cooks of the league... it was world class.

I think if Nixon and Thornton (for a rookie) pop that makes Agholor expendable and opens the opportunity for some big cap savings. We'll have to see what those two look like with actual pads on. I think if Wilkerson looks like he built upon his substantial growth that saw him on the field to end the season and potentially another young slot guy like Malcolm Perry looks good enough to slide him on the practice squad that will make Meyers expendable... especially if he has overestimated his own worth and contract negotiations have stalled.
Yes, if Thornton is good enough to be a #3 WR, Agholor is gone. I can't see him on the roster as a #4 or even competing for 3/4. Myers could take that role.

That being said, if Thornton shows a lot, I think that the team will try to extend either Myers or Agholor, setting us for 2022 and 2023.
Evan Lazar speculates that if Thornton shows something in camp, Agholor may get traded.
okay a trade, maybe, but he was priced to have this second year to show something if need be. if someone wants to relieve some of the spend on him, and we're sure he straight sucks, well okay. I don't know how to really figure out what they "mean" by their contracts, but they're very on the hook w Agholor. Err on the side of panning out, I think.


We save the almost 5M we haven't spent this year if he goes away. (We have spent the 5M in prorated bonus and additionally owe 5M to pay for him not to play.) But I am definitely rethinking my sunk cost fallacy on agholor . We do get back 5M. Forget about whats already spent, and getting back 5M is getting back 5M.

By comparison, if we get rid of Meyers (860 some yards), there's no dead money but that doesn't get us anything, and going forward we would only get back $4M, where we'd get $5m back with Agholor. So we'd be ditching the better player to get back less. Also you have to get 860 yards out of a binkie to be "right" with Meyer, where it's 473 for Agholor.

First choice, Agholor wins in camp b/c he is uncoverable and running great routes and breaking ankles in the secondary and stuff... or at least looks like a lock for another 500 or so yds and a good bet for 700-800. But if we've got no confidence in him, okay, we trade him. But we better be damn sure of whoever's up next. With the binkies, that means getting evidence in camp. Guys like Lil'Jordan are there to look at and probably get rid of.

1. So If Agholor looks good, like he'll go north of 700 or 800 yards like pre-NE, with a handful of TDs...
2. Assume the sunk cost has no effect...
3. Agholor's got a spot. But you guys are right, and we think that <500 yards is just who Agholor is in NE,... that's inviting us to take the hit and let him go. Onus is on him.

So question one is whether we think 2021 predicts 2022 for NA

4. Thornton's cheap. as are the other binkies -- what do they have to show to make us think they are a lock to replace Agholor production? If they have to be able to plug-and-play for 500 yards, a quick look tells us that something like 90 guys get that every year. That's gettinng uncomfortably close to "all of them." If they have to get us 800 yards, the seeming "decent receiver" level in NE, that's something 44 guys in the league can do.

Are we sure on the strength of a good minicamp that Nixon is in that club? Are we sure on the strength of that one game against Jax that Wilkerson brings that? Are we sure on the strength of great drills and 40 time that Thornton has that?


4b. All these guys have upside because they're unknown, so there's that, None of our top guys is Cooper "2 girls 1" Kupp, and since we don't know their ceilings, the new guys "just might be". We virtually can't tell Thornton to go away before we have a look, They're alll cheap, all they cost is roster space. That's one more reason Thornton's ST ability makes him a keeper.

This is where the 2 new faces come in - they're the only real potential improvements. Thornton and 1 other. The other guys are known-ish quantities.

5. DeVante makes real-ish money at $6M/year... that's too much to not even watch him in a game. He gets a spot.
6. Bourne got us 800 yards last year and did it on the cheap-ish.
7. Meyers brought 866 yards and he carries no dead cap. So he costs $4m and performs well. I don't know what I was smoking looking at him from a dead cap perspective (0 dead cap, but who cares. He's good.)

Agholor, Bourne, Parker, and Meyers, I think, are in. You don't draft a guy highish, like TyThorn, and not at least look at him, so that's not even on the table.

If these things are true (and we're going with 6) that is 1 spot for Tre nixon, Kristin Wilkerson, Lil'Orphan Humphries, and whoever else. It seems like Kristian W and Tre Nixon are fighting for that last spot, unless someone has a terrible camp, someone brings great trade value, or I'm just wrong and we're shopping Agholor as we speak, because unknown to me we hate him, he hates us, more accurately he's "not getting it" or "it's not a good fit for him." etc. I think he just had a sub 500 yard season and that can change, and his deal is priced to keep us looking at the glass half full.

However, what's spent is spent. If you forget whats gone before, it's a question of whether you want a roster spot and 5m back off the books by ditching him, or if you want what NA can bring and dont mind spending the remaining 5M to get it.

sorry for the long post!
 
In my opinion, lets stop hating on Myers and Aghuaolr for the 2022 season.

As Bob Marley said... Every ting is gonna be all right...
 
okay a trade, maybe, but he was priced to have this second year to show something if need be. if someone wants to relieve some of the spend on him, and we're sure he straight sucks, well okay. I don't know how to really figure out what they "mean" by their contracts, but they're very on the hook w Agholor. Err on the side of panning out, I think.


We save the almost 5M we haven't spent this year if he goes away. (We have spent the 5M in prorated bonus and additionally owe 5M to pay for him not to play.) But I am definitely rethinking my sunk cost fallacy on agholor . We do get back 5M. Forget about whats already spent, and getting back 5M is getting back 5M.

By comparison, if we get rid of Meyers (860 some yards), there's no dead money but that doesn't get us anything, and going forward we would only get back $4M, where we'd get $5m back with Agholor. So we'd be ditching the better player to get back less. Also you have to get 860 yards out of a binkie to be "right" with Meyer, where it's 473 for Agholor.

First choice, Agholor wins in camp b/c he is uncoverable and running great routes and breaking ankles in the secondary and stuff... or at least looks like a lock for another 500 or so yds and a good bet for 700-800. But if we've got no confidence in him, okay, we trade him. But we better be damn sure of whoever's up next. With the binkies, that means getting evidence in camp. Guys like Lil'Jordan are there to look at and probably get rid of.

1. So If Agholor looks good, like he'll go north of 700 or 800 yards like pre-NE, with a handful of TDs...
2. Assume the sunk cost has no effect...
3. Agholor's got a spot. But you guys are right, and we think that <500 yards is just who Agholor is in NE,... that's inviting us to take the hit and let him go. Onus is on him.

So question one is whether we think 2021 predicts 2022 for NA

4. Thornton's cheap. as are the other binkies -- what do they have to show to make us think they are a lock to replace Agholor production? If they have to be able to plug-and-play for 500 yards, a quick look tells us that something like 90 guys get that every year. That's gettinng uncomfortably close to "all of them." If they have to get us 800 yards, the seeming "decent receiver" level in NE, that's something 44 guys in the league can do.

Are we sure on the strength of a good minicamp that Nixon is in that club? Are we sure on the strength of that one game against Jax that Wilkerson brings that? Are we sure on the strength of great drills and 40 time that Thornton has that?


4b. All these guys have upside because they're unknown, so there's that, None of our top guys is Cooper "2 girls 1" Kupp, and since we don't know their ceilings, the new guys "just might be". We virtually can't tell Thornton to go away before we have a look, They're alll cheap, all they cost is roster space. That's one more reason Thornton's ST ability makes him a keeper.

This is where the 2 new faces come in - they're the only real potential improvements. Thornton and 1 other. The other guys are known-ish quantities.

5. DeVante makes real-ish money at $6M/year... that's too much to not even watch him in a game. He gets a spot.
6. Bourne got us 800 yards last year and did it on the cheap-ish.
7. Meyers brought 866 yards and he carries no dead cap. So he costs $4m and performs well. I don't know what I was smoking looking at him from a dead cap perspective (0 dead cap, but who cares. He's good.)

Agholor, Bourne, Parker, and Meyers, I think, are in. You don't draft a guy highish, like TyThorn, and not at least look at him, so that's not even on the table.

If these things are true (and we're going with 6) that is 1 spot for Tre nixon, Kristin Wilkerson, Lil'Orphan Humphries, and whoever else. It seems like Kristian W and Tre Nixon are fighting for that last spot, unless someone has a terrible camp, someone brings great trade value, or I'm just wrong and we're shopping Agholor as we speak, because unknown to me we hate him, he hates us, more accurately he's "not getting it" or "it's not a good fit for him." etc. I think he just had a sub 500 yard season and that can change, and his deal is priced to keep us looking at the glass half full.

However, what's spent is spent. If you forget whats gone before, it's a question of whether you want a roster spot and 5m back off the books by ditching him, or if you want what NA can bring and dont mind spending the remaining 5M to get it.

sorry for the long post!
That's a long ass post to get it wrong. If Agholor is traded we get $9.9M cap savings ($5M dead cap) not $5M. I think that would make a difference in your entire analysis.
 
okay a trade, maybe, but he was priced to have this second year to show something if need be. if someone wants to relieve some of the spend on him, and we're sure he straight sucks, well okay. I don't know how to really figure out what they "mean" by their contracts, but they're very on the hook w Agholor. Err on the side of panning out, I think.


We save the almost 5M we haven't spent this year if he goes away. (We have spent the 5M in prorated bonus and additionally owe 5M to pay for him not to play.) But I am definitely rethinking my sunk cost fallacy on agholor . We do get back 5M. Forget about whats already spent, and getting back 5M is getting back 5M.

By comparison, if we get rid of Meyers (860 some yards), there's no dead money but that doesn't get us anything, and going forward we would only get back $4M, where we'd get $5m back with Agholor. So we'd be ditching the better player to get back less. Also you have to get 860 yards out of a binkie to be "right" with Meyer, where it's 473 for Agholor.

First choice, Agholor wins in camp b/c he is uncoverable and running great routes and breaking ankles in the secondary and stuff... or at least looks like a lock for another 500 or so yds and a good bet for 700-800. But if we've got no confidence in him, okay, we trade him. But we better be damn sure of whoever's up next. With the binkies, that means getting evidence in camp. Guys like Lil'Jordan are there to look at and probably get rid of.

1. So If Agholor looks good, like he'll go north of 700 or 800 yards like pre-NE, with a handful of TDs...
2. Assume the sunk cost has no effect...
3. Agholor's got a spot. But you guys are right, and we think that <500 yards is just who Agholor is in NE,... that's inviting us to take the hit and let him go. Onus is on him.

So question one is whether we think 2021 predicts 2022 for NA

4. Thornton's cheap. as are the other binkies -- what do they have to show to make us think they are a lock to replace Agholor production? If they have to be able to plug-and-play for 500 yards, a quick look tells us that something like 90 guys get that every year. That's gettinng uncomfortably close to "all of them." If they have to get us 800 yards, the seeming "decent receiver" level in NE, that's something 44 guys in the league can do.

Are we sure on the strength of a good minicamp that Nixon is in that club? Are we sure on the strength of that one game against Jax that Wilkerson brings that? Are we sure on the strength of great drills and 40 time that Thornton has that?


4b. All these guys have upside because they're unknown, so there's that, None of our top guys is Cooper "2 girls 1" Kupp, and since we don't know their ceilings, the new guys "just might be". We virtually can't tell Thornton to go away before we have a look, They're alll cheap, all they cost is roster space. That's one more reason Thornton's ST ability makes him a keeper.

This is where the 2 new faces come in - they're the only real potential improvements. Thornton and 1 other. The other guys are known-ish quantities.

5. DeVante makes real-ish money at $6M/year... that's too much to not even watch him in a game. He gets a spot.
6. Bourne got us 800 yards last year and did it on the cheap-ish.
7. Meyers brought 866 yards and he carries no dead cap. So he costs $4m and performs well. I don't know what I was smoking looking at him from a dead cap perspective (0 dead cap, but who cares. He's good.)

Agholor, Bourne, Parker, and Meyers, I think, are in. You don't draft a guy highish, like TyThorn, and not at least look at him, so that's not even on the table.

If these things are true (and we're going with 6) that is 1 spot for Tre nixon, Kristin Wilkerson, Lil'Orphan Humphries, and whoever else. It seems like Kristian W and Tre Nixon are fighting for that last spot, unless someone has a terrible camp, someone brings great trade value, or I'm just wrong and we're shopping Agholor as we speak, because unknown to me we hate him, he hates us, more accurately he's "not getting it" or "it's not a good fit for him." etc. I think he just had a sub 500 yard season and that can change, and his deal is priced to keep us looking at the glass half full.

However, what's spent is spent. If you forget whats gone before, it's a question of whether you want a roster spot and 5m back off the books by ditching him, or if you want what NA can bring and dont mind spending the remaining 5M to get it.

sorry for the long post!

You forgot to factor in what draft pick we would get if we traded Agholor and Meyers. If we save $5M in cap space AND get a 2nd round pick in a trade for Agholor, Thornton needs to step up fast. Please redo your analysis AND include the draft pick considerations.
 
-Parker
-Bourne
-Meyers
-Agholor
-Nixon
-Thorton

Yes 6 wrs. It's time to unleash the Macken.

If Thorton plays to a level that makes Agholor expendable...I'm all for it. Do not see it happening tho.

I think Agholor will have a good year. I think he will set the tone/example Thorton for future years. His downfalls last year had alot to do to health/state of the offense. Mac missed him very open down field alot. He also let us down a few times.
 
2nd for Aggy? Maybe if we pay his Salary maybe, which I don't think we can afford.
I could be wrong, I often am.
 
2nd for Aggy? Maybe if we pay his Salary maybe, which I don't think we can afford.
I could be wrong, I often am.

If we have to pay a significant portion of his salary in order to move him for a decent Day 3 pick (I don't think a 2nd-rounder is possible) then it might not be worth the bother... There's gonna be injuries anyway, so let's see what we have here by the end of TC... I wouldn't consider moving him any earlier than that; but then again I felt the same about Sony Michel last year and he was dealt before TC was barely under-way, so who knows?
 
-Parker
-Bourne
-Meyers
-Agholor
-Nixon
-Thorton

Yes 6 wrs. It's time to unleash the Macken.

If Thorton plays to a level that makes Agholor expendable...I'm all for it. Do not see it happening tho.

I think Agholor will have a good year. I think he will set the tone/example Thorton for future years. His downfalls last year had alot to do to health/state of the offense. Mac missed him very open down field alot. He also let us down a few times.
I hate cap talk. Try this out.
Mac got 3rd and 15 4th qtr behind by 7 30 sec left. He goes to:
1. Bourne
2. Myers
3. Hunter
Fill the rest for Roster spots that Mac will trust.
How about 4th and 15. Binkie? Role player?
 
In my opinion, lets stop hating on Myers and Aghuaolr for the 2022 season.

As Bob Marley said... Every ting is gonna be all right...
Hate has nothing to do with it. If the young kids (Nixon, Thornton, Wilkerson) pop there will be a roster crunch.

The obvious players to move at that point will be the ones with no contract for next season. The kids are locked into cheap rookie deals for years.
 
That's a long ass post to get it wrong. If Agholor is traded we get $9.9M cap savings ($5M dead cap) not $5M. I think that would make a difference in your entire analysis.
This ^
 
Parker, Bourne, Meyers and Henry/Smith with a sprinkle of the rookies should be enough to have a potentially top 10 offense
 
That's a long ass post to get it wrong. If Agholor is traded we get $9.9M cap savings ($5M dead cap) not $5M. I think that would make a difference in your entire analysis.
will re-look @OTC tonight, provisionally trusting you - guess there's the part they pick up by virtue of buying the contract in the trade. The "cap savings if...." column going by memory said 5m but hey now I am posting @ lunch, wont push back unless/until it seems like there's an argument to pick
You forgot to factor in what draft pick we would get if we traded Agholor and Meyers. If we save $5M in cap space AND get a 2nd round pick in a trade for Agholor, Thornton needs to step up fast. Please redo your analysis AND include the draft pick considerations.
omg we're going to trade both now!

Okay the picks you get for agholor seem minimal, given that we'd be doing it in a down year. maybe I am stressing the deals where we got an unimpressive haul in my memory. 2nd for a guy who postsed 470ish yards I dunno.

But then I am always wrong no matter how much I overthink it. Watch somebody now give us a first for agholor.

Okay time's up!
 
The cap talk with Agholor is interesting. On one hand, if other guys look good and you can get a decent pick for him, you can make that trade since you gain back so much cap space.

On the other hand, you could try to extend him to free up a similar amount of cap space and still keep him - his value isn’t very high right now due to a down year. His whole career has been “meh” outside of one hot year in Vegas so I doubt he will get a big deal elsewhere unless he gets hot this year here. You could offer him a decent longer deal here for some security at a lesser value if he’s willing to do it.

Of course, the Pats may simply play it safe and see what happens regardless. If he ends up getting hot here, the Pats may simply pay up themselves. They have the cap space and may want to keep that successful Mac/Nelson deep connection intact if it comes to fruition.
 
Not sure I agree. Nixon, Thornton (if they pop), Bourne, and Parker is plenty going forward with Smith and Henry. I think BB will let Agholor and Meyers walk. If Nixon (or Wilkerson) do not pop, they resign Meyers. Meyers is more of a system guy that a lot of teams are not going to be too excited about (lacks athleticism) like Edelman getting little interest in FA.
They are keeping 5 WR this year.
The cap talk with Agholor is interesting. On one hand, if other guys look good and you can get a decent pick for him, you can make that trade since you gain back so much cap space.

On the other hand, you could try to extend him to free up a similar amount of cap space and still keep him - his value isn’t very high right now due to a down year. His whole career has been “meh” outside of one hot year in Vegas so I doubt he will get a big deal elsewhere unless he gets hot this year here. You could offer him a decent longer deal here for some security at a lesser value if he’s willing to do it.

Of course, the Pats may simply play it safe and see what happens regardless. If he ends up getting hot here, the Pats may simply pay up themselves. They have the cap space and may want to keep that successful Mac/Nelson deep connection intact if it comes to fruition.
I think they keep Thornton, Agholor, Bourne, Meyers, Nixon as the WR group. 3 tight ends and 4 running backs, White, Stevenson, Harris, and the new fast kid, his name escapes me. That's going to be a pretty damn good offense
 
will re-look @OTC tonight, provisionally trusting you - guess there's the part they pick up by virtue of buying the contract in the trade. The "cap savings if...." column going by memory said 5m but hey now I am posting @ lunch, wont push back unless/until it seems like there's an argument to pick

omg we're going to trade both now!

Okay the picks you get for agholor seem minimal, given that we'd be doing it in a down year. maybe I am stressing the deals where we got an unimpressive haul in my memory. 2nd for a guy who postsed 470ish yards I dunno.

But then I am always wrong no matter how much I overthink it. Watch somebody now give us a first for agholor.

Okay time's up!

Haha. After you wrote a very long post (which seems to be common for you ) I thought I would find a reason for you to re-write it. I was kidding, but tried to make it sound believable.
 
They are keeping 5 WR this year.

I think they keep Thornton, Agholor, Bourne, Meyers, Nixon as the WR group. 3 tight ends and 4 running backs, White, Stevenson, Harris, and the new fast kid, his name escapes me. That's going to be a pretty damn good offense

They just gave up a 3rd next year for Parker with 2 years left on an affordable contract, and Parker has been clear that he wants to come to NE. Parker is a lock. Unless they go with six WRs, or there is an injury, or they think Nixon can sneak onto the practice squad, one of the five in your list has to go (be traded). That is why there is speculation.
 
They just gave up a 3rd next year for Parker with 2 years left on an affordable contract, and Parker has been clear that he wants to come to NE. Parker is a lock. Unless they go with six WRs, or there is an injury, or they think Nixon can sneak onto the practice squad, one of the five in your list has to go (be traded). That is why there is speculation.
Lol ****, forgot about Parker. I'm stumped then
 
will re-look @OTC tonight, provisionally trusting you - guess there's the part they pick up by virtue of buying the contract in the trade. The "cap savings if...." column going by memory said 5m but hey now I am posting @ lunch, wont push back unless/until it seems like there's an argument to pick
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Former Patriots Super Bowl MVP Set to Announce Pick During Draft
TRANSCRIPT: Mike Vrabel’s Media Statement on Tuesday 4/21
MORSE: What Will the Patriots Do in the Draft?
MORSE: Patriots Prospects and 30 Visits
Patriots News 04-19, Countdown To Draft Day
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 6 – A Week Before the Draft
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/13
Patriots News 04-12, What To Watch For In The NFL Draft
MORSE: Pre-Draft Patriots News and Notes
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 5
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 5
Mark Morse
2 weeks ago
Back
Top