Coaching Staff Concerns (*posts moved out of rookie camp thread)

[venecol]

I’d argue that continuing to do things in the manner that brought the team success is professional.

If you worked at a company that had been at or near the top of their industry for around 20 years changing your processes/best practices because the media and some customers (all of which will continue to buy the product) complain isn’t being professional.

I know some people look back and think Brady deserves all the credit for their winning while the organization deserves none. However, I’m not sure why you would want the team to ignore what worked while Brady was there.

Apple didn’t completely change their business model after Steve Jobs left the company and the Pats shouldn’t change how they do business after Brady left.

With Brady gone a big part of this board seems to think we should now behave like every other team, but that’s the opposite of what brought success here previously.

The problem with your analogy is that the Patriots don't make widgets. It requires talent to win it all. The dynasty is over. It's time to let it go. It's time to do things differently since team no longer has Goat QB, Goat TE, Goat slot WR, or almost none of the leaders of the last dynasty. McCourty is basically it, & White if he can even play (I don't give STers much credit).

The theory that BB can win it all with an average QB is yet to be proven. It's never happened. Hell, Bill has never even won a division w/o an elite QB. This team is in fact closer to every other team (average) than some yearly contender. If you guys believe that just because Bill is still here, that it's enough for the Pats to become contenders again, you're delusional.

This team is no better than the one that was embarrassed in the last game of the season. Offense got a little better, defense got a little worse, coaching got way worse (it wasn't that good last year to begin with).

 

[venecol]

Sorry if it goes against your narrative but making the playoffs in your QBs rookie year sets teams up as contenders just because you want to be a miserable none-believer doesn't mean the coaches should. If they felt the way you do then they shouldn't be here.

This makes no sense. All I keep hearing from all the "believers" is hope. Hopefully the guys that haven't played a single snap can come in and kick ass. Hopefully a D2 OL guy can turn into the next Mankins. Hopefully, Butler (love you Malcolm) can be that guy again. Hopefully, our QB that hit a rookie wall at the end of the season can have a huge jump. Hopefully, guys w/ close-to-zero OL & QB coaching exp. can become the best OCs in the NFL.

To me: non-believer = realist

 

[PowerRunRevival]

The problem with your analogy is that the Patriots don't make widgets. It requires talent to win it all. The dynasty is over. It's time to let it go. It's time to do things differently since team no longer has Goat QB, Goat TE, Goat slot WR, or almost none of the leaders of the last dynasty. McCourty is basically it, & White if he can even play (I don't give STers much credit).

The theory that BB can win it all with an average QB is yet to be proven. It's never happened. Hell, Bill has never even won a division w/o an elite QB. This team is in fact closer to every other team (average) than some yearly contender. If you guys believe that just because Bill is still here, that it's enough for the Pats to become contenders again, you're delusional.

This team is no better than the one that was embarrassed in the last game of the season. Offense got a little better, defense got a little worse, coaching got way worse (it wasn't that good last year to begin with).

First off, I appreciate your response. I know this topic gets people heated and I thank you for your respectful post.

It absolutely takes talent to run a company like Apple. All the programmers, and engineers that created apple products or those that marketed them are absolutely talented.

No, I don't believe that because Bill is still here the Pats are automatically contenders. However, I believe that doing things Bill's way is way more conducive to winning than doing everything just like every other team. Following the current trends in the NFL is a good way to chase and never catch the teams that that acted on that strategy first.

Belichick has always tried to find market inefficiencies and to go against the grain. In business terms he tries to use a "Blue Ocean" strategy. This strategy essentially is that you want to move where your competitors aren't. The moves that a lot of people on the board clamor for (trading for and paying a top of the market WR, drafting based on media consensus) would be a red ocean strategy. In other words, if Belichick were to do what everyone else is doing the Pats are less likely to be successful.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

This makes no sense. All I keep hearing from all the "believers" is hope. Hopefully the guys that haven't played a single snap can come in and kick ass. Hopefully a D2 OL guy can turn into the next Mankins. Hopefully, Butler (love you Malcolm) can be that guy again. Hopefully, our QB that hit a rookie wall at the end of the season can have a huge jump. Hopefully, guys w/ close-to-zero OL & QB coaching exp. can become the best OCs in the NFL.

To me: non-believer = realist

Or you could say the believers use a past history of success to predict future success. The believers as you call them have more than hope, they have previous results in which the team operated in the same manner and won. Hope is easy to have when it's backed up by a proven track record. We can also point to statistics that indicate the team actually underperformed last year relative to their win total. This doesn't change the quality of the team last year, but previous year point differential is statistically more predictive than win totals, meaning that historically teams that underperform their win totals step forward not backwards.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

This makes no sense. All I keep hearing from all the "believers" is hope. Hopefully the guys that haven't played a single snap can come in and kick ass. Hopefully a D2 OL guy can turn into the next Mankins. Hopefully, Butler (love you Malcolm) can be that guy again. Hopefully, our QB that hit a rookie wall at the end of the season can have a huge jump. Hopefully, guys w/ close-to-zero OL & QB coaching exp. can become the best OCs in the NFL.

To me: non-believer = realist

FCS like Garoppolo.

And to hear a lot of folks on this board, McDaniels was terrible, so they don't need to be the best to be an improvement.

 

[signbabybrady]

This makes no sense. All I keep hearing from all the "believers" is hope. Hopefully the guys that haven't played a single snap can come in and kick ass. Hopefully a D2 OL guy can turn into the next Mankins. Hopefully, Butler (love you Malcolm) can be that guy again. Hopefully, our QB that hit a rookie wall at the end of the season can have a huge jump. Hopefully, guys w/ close-to-zero OL & QB coaching exp. can become the best OCs in the NFL.

To me: non-believer = realist

To me after the last 20 years: non-believers are just people that want to find things to complain about.

I think Bill and Mac is more than enough to be positive and to think we are on a better track than most teams in this league except the few that definitely have a stud QB and even those teams have screwed that up plenty too.

You want to be in the fellowship of the miserable have fun I chose to find the positive of which there is plenty on this team to be positive about.

 

[venecol]

To me after the last 20 years: non-believers are just people that want to find things to complain about.

I think Bill and Mac is more than enough to be positive and to think we are on a better track than most teams in this league except the few that definitely have a stud QB and even those teams have screwed that up plenty too.

You want to be in the fellowship of the miserable have fun I chose to find the positive of which there is plenty on this team to be positive about.

Look, I'm not totally down on the team. Adding Parker was a +. Drafting Strong was a +. Strange is TBD.

On the D side, I'm more concerned. After drafting 7/10 Off players, apparently the plan is to rely on what guys that took 0 snaps can do. Not overly impressed w/ Wilson or Peppers.

On the coaching side, we lost decades of experience on the O side of the ball. From Fears to McD, the brain drain is huge.

Experience matters. Don't tell me that being on the road, down by 10 w/ 7 minutes left, that play calling experience doesn't matter. Maybe these guys are geniuses and turn out to be the future Saban's of the coaching world. I have my doubts.

 

[masterbouncer]

realism is actually when you are somewhere between being too optimitstic and too pesimistic, but some members here are either the one or the other (so not realistic but just over optimistic or over pesimistic which is the majoriy or they might just screem the loudest).

a few of them are hilarious and I actually love to read someone like @captain stone but he is a rarity, he lets off his feelings and thoughts but never gets into lengthy arguments with others or trying to force his view to others, never attacks anybody on a personal level, he just being the captain and I love it!

however nowdays it seems to tend more to the pesimistic almost angrily negative view of anything related to the Patriots as a team, to coaches, to owner

for sure not all is good but hell the Pats are still no way close to being the JETE and now I would like to see more info and news of how the rookies did in the mini camp

 

[Love The Drake]

Honestly not having a dedicated offensive or defensive coordinator has some pros.

. Limits the im the boss and it’s done my way or no way logic.
. More voices more insight more ideas. This is provided everyone can work as a team and in concert.
. Unpredictability on play calling and tendencies. Josh was incredibly successful but how many of us could call what kind of play he was going to call due to down distance and clock?
. Coach isn’t spread too thin since there will be more support.
. Not sticking with something that doesn’t work due to familiarity or fear of change.

 

[signbabybrady]

Look, I'm not totally down on the team. Adding Parker was a +. Drafting Strong was a +. Strange is TBD.

On the D side, I'm more concerned. After drafting 7/10 Off players, apparently the plan is to rely on what guys that took 0 snaps can do. Not overly impressed w/ Wilson or Peppers.

On the coaching side, we lost decades of experience on the O side of the ball. From Fears to McD, the brain drain is huge.

Experience matters. Don't tell me that being on the road, down by 10 w/ 7 minutes left, that play calling experience doesn't matter. Maybe these guys are geniuses and turn out to be the future Saban's of the coaching world. I have my doubts.

Call me lazy or blind but I don't follow the OCs and DCs of most teams and I certainly don't follow the assistants. But Bill is still the most experienced Head Coach in the league and with or without named coordinators for me the buck always stops with Bill for coaching so until I have reason to doubt BB I won't. Bottom line a SB win is still pretty fresh on his resume and he's already got his replacement QB to the playoffs so I'm going to stay very positive. And randomly I will lash out at chicken little board members even if it's not entirely their fault after reading ten straight world is ending posts I might chose yours to respond to even if my anger started with 9 other posters too.

 

[venecol]

Call me lazy or blind but I don't follow the OCs and DCs of most teams and I certainly don't follow the assistants. But Bill is still the most experienced Head Coach in the league and with or without named coordinators for me the buck always stops with Bill for coaching so until I have reason to doubt BB I won't. Bottom line a SB win is still pretty fresh on his resume and he's already got his replacement QB to the playoffs so I'm going to stay very positive. And randomly I will lash out at chicken little board members even if it's not entirely their fault after reading ten straight world is ending posts I might chose yours to respond to even if my anger started with 9 other posters too.

That's fair. It's cool. I'm not the sensitive type. Didn't take your post as a personal attack anyway.

I suppose my main concern is w/ Bill being 70+ and having even less guys w/ exp. to rely on. He can't do it all (along with his GM duties). He still looks ok but it's no secret why so few HCs coached into their 70s. It's a valid concern.

 

[*ChungFu*]

realism is actually when you are somewhere between being too optimitstic and too pesimistic, but some members here are either the one or the other (so not realistic but just over optimistic or over pesimistic which is the majoriy or they might just screem the loudest).

a few of them are hilarious and I actually love to read someone like @captain stone but he is a rarity, he lets off his feelings and thoughts but never gets into lengthy arguments with others or trying to force his view to others, never attacks anybody on a personal level, he just being the captain and I love it!

however nowdays it seems to tend more to the pesimistic almost angrily negative view of anything related to the Patriots as a team, to coaches, to owner

for sure not all is good but hell the Pats are still no way close to being the JETE and now I would like to see more info and news of how the rookies did in the mini camp

It's funny because we are used to being universally hated, but it somehow matters now. Trust me, at least part of the pile-on is wishful thinking.
Eff the media; local and national. Our fans that are turning on the team is akin to the response of a jilted lover. Coaches and players leaving or retiring isn't a slap in the face. Nothing in the league lasts forever. I remember feeling that the Broncos, Steelers, Niners, and Cowboys wouldn't suck soon enough, but the day did come. Being an optimistic homer isn't new to me, but I wasn't ever a kocky A-hole either and I think those are the people suffering the most. Payback, crow, and regret is an uncomfortable rebound for chest-pounders.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Not sure about less time on take out orders. You never know when Patricia might have a hunger pang

 

[captain stone]

Question:

Is there a Rookie Camp thread somewhere, and I just can't find it?

 

[Sicilian]

Question:

Is there a Rookie Camp thread somewhere, and I just can't find it?

You may have the thread creator on ignore.

 

[Toofy]

Or you could say the believers use a past history of success to predict future success. The believers as you call them have more than hope, they have previous results in which the team operated in the same manner and won. Hope is easy to have when it's backed up by a proven track record. We can also point to statistics that indicate the team actually underperformed last year relative to their win total. This doesn't change the quality of the team last year, but previous year point differential is statistically more predictive than win totals, meaning that historically teams that underperform their win totals step forward not backwards.

Are you by any chance a management/strategy consultant???

 

[PowerRunRevival]

Are you by any chance a management/strategy consultant???

No, if I was I'd probably have a lot more money! I work in Grants management.

I read the blue ocean book as part of a class I took.

 

[Zuma]

Question:

Is there a Rookie Camp thread somewhere, and I just can't find it?

The one that has my posts that were not moved...

Patriots ROOKIE Mini-Camp (13-15) - Going on Now

We had the first roster victim. OL Liam Shanahan failed his physical and was released by the team. One Mini-Camp Invitee is safety Coby Tippett. He's the son of Patriots Hall of Famer Andre Tippett. Pats are currently at 86 for the roster. Safety is a stacked position with McCourty...

www.patsfans.com

 

[Pape]

Question:

Is there a Rookie Camp thread somewhere, and I just can't find it?

Patriots ROOKIE Mini-Camp (13-15) - Going on Now

We had the first roster victim. OL Liam Shanahan failed his physical and was released by the team. One Mini-Camp Invitee is safety Coby Tippett. He's the son of Patriots Hall of Famer Andre Tippett. Pats are currently at 86 for the roster. Safety is a stacked position with McCourty...

www.patsfans.com

edit
ninja'ed

 

[Ring 6]

I choose to look optimistically at the team and it’s chances.
How I look at it has absolutely zero impact upon what will happen. If I think Mac Jones is better than Brady or worse then Newton it is irrelevant to what will result.
I find being a fan much more enjoyable if I am encouraged by the positives am optimistic and have hope than to spend my life whining and crying about what terrible thing is going to happen next, when EXACTLY THE SAME THIING WILL HAPPEN WAY. I find life better when I spend the off season with hope than with doom and gloom.

With that in mind:
We had the 6th highest scoring offense in the NFL, with a rookie QB.
We added 2 WRs, one who at his best has been a stud, and another who is one of the 6 fastest WRs to come into the league in 20 years (or something like that)
A GOAT 3rd down back.
Traded out Mason for onwenu, an even swap but for cheaper.
Drafted a LG who is a far better athlete than the mediocre one we had last year.
Retained everyone else.
Added 2 extremely accomplished coaches with excellent football minds to the staff, to replace the ones that were hired to bigger roles elsewhere.

Defensively we were consistently throughout the season one of the 2 best defenses, along with the Bills in the NFL but for one matchup we struggled in.
We appeared to struggle in that matchup due to a lack of speed and we have pretty much eliminated the players that were exposed by the speed.
We have had a good to excellent defense virtually every season of Belichicks tenure, so I am confident he knows what he is doing.

Through week 13 or something we were the 1 seed in the AFC.

We achieved the rare feat of making the playoffs with a rookie QB and did it in the second year of a rebuild.
I see many reasons to be optimistic.