OT: Bills new stadium public funding

[Ring 6]

The issues was romney income was based on bain capitals income as capital gains, which is taxed les than earned income.

So?

 

[Ring 6]

No they will not. Its a fraud for billionaires

"From a return-on-investment standpoint, economists and researchers almost universally agree that stadiums are unlikely to generate anywhere near the level of tax revenue needed to offset the public subsidies tied to their construction."

Research shows sports stadiums generate little new economic acivity.

Research shows sports stadiums generate little new economic acivity.

www.investigativepost.org

Read the article and use some critical thinking skills.
Shockingly people who are against publicly funded stadiums give vague, incomplete, poorly developed “proof”

Simple math shows that they are wrong.

 

[Pape]

Read the article and use some critical thinking skills.
Shockingly people who are against publicly funded stadiums give vague, incomplete, poorly developed “proof”

Simple math shows that they are wrong.

its never simple math though, is it?

teams/players/coaches etc employ various tax strategies in order to offset income. Gross contract values are rarely fully paid out; unless the NFL has opened their books to you, you have no clue what their income vs debt ratio is... so any assessment made with "simple math" is deeply flawed because its not "simple". Any one should be able to figure that one out...

The problem is the 600 million wont be 600 million by the time the project is done... there will be added costs and cost over runs...

the nfl should provide its own financing for stadiums... keep the debt in house, and the owners can profit off of each others capital expenditures...

but hey, at the end of the day, the government doesnt care... the politicians will get their graft, the owners will get their money... so if the government is going to give away free money they'd be fools to say no for the cost of a few cheap bribes political donations...

 

[Ring 6]

its never simple math though, is it?

teams/players/coaches etc employ various tax strategies in order to offset income. Gross contract values are rarely fully paid out; unless the NFL has opened their books to you, you have no clue what their income vs debt ratio is... so any assessment made with "simple math" is deeply flawed because its not "simple". Any one should be able to figure that one out...

The problem is the 600 million wont be 600 million by the time the project is done... there will be added costs and cost over runs...

the nfl should provide its own financing for stadiums... keep the debt in house, and the owners can profit off of each others capital expenditures...

but hey, at the end of the day, the government doesnt care... the politicians will get their graft, the owners will get their money... so if the government is going to give away free money they'd be fools to say no for the cost of a few cheap bribes political donations...

What “various tax strategies” are you referring to? Name a few.

All cap charged dollars are absolutely paid out.

Why would any organization pay for something it can get for free?

The reality is governments finance stadiums because their constituents value having the franchise in their market. And they do it in a way that costs less than the revenue they would lose if the team left.

 

[Pape]

What “various tax strategies” are you referring to? Name a few.

All cap charged dollars are absolutely paid out.

Why would any organization pay for something it can get for free?

The reality is governments finance stadiums because their constituents value having the franchise in their market. And they do it in a way that costs less than the revenue they would lose if the team left.

Debt... Corporate structuring... Write offs and depreciation... Charitable foundations... Tax abatements for investment... Do I really need to go on?

As for the cap, not every dollar earmarked under the cap is spent... Until the contracts are fully guaranteed, that wont happen

They shouldn't get it for free, but they do. It's ridiculous the amount of money that gets handed out to billionaires...

We all know why they get free money. Only a fool thinks they pay every tax owed based on "simple math" ... It's my bad I forgot who I was talking to, Mr simple himself

 

[XLIX]

No they will not. Its a fraud for billionaires

"From a return-on-investment standpoint, economists and researchers almost universally agree that stadiums are unlikely to generate anywhere near the level of tax revenue needed to offset the public subsidies tied to their construction."

Research shows sports stadiums generate little new economic acivity.

Research shows sports stadiums generate little new economic acivity.

www.investigativepost.org

The article says that a study commissioned by the state says the Bills generate $25 million a year in taxes (most of which is income taxes).

$25 million times 30 years is $750 million. But anyone with half a brain knows the $25 million number is going to increase drastically over the next 3 decades. It’ll certainly double at the very least (but probably increase by much more). So if we assume it doubles over the next 30 years, and pro rate annual increases that gets us from $25 million to $50 million, the the grand total over the next 30 years is over $1.1 billion. (And that’s a VERY conservative estimate)

Furthermore, all of the above assumes a 30 year life of the stadium, but there’s no reason to believe it won’t last longer. Their current stadium will be 50 when it gets torn down.

Sorry not sorry, but the argument that NY’s investment won’t get returned is a failure. From a financial standpoint, it’s not a bad deal.

 

[Grogan14]

The article says that a study commissioned by the state says the Bills generate $25 million a year in taxes (most of which is income taxes).

$25 million times 30 years is $750 million. But anyone with half a brain knows the $25 million number is going to increase drastically over the next 3 decades. It’ll certainly double at the very least (but probably increase by much more). So if we assume it doubles over the next 30 years, and pro rate annual increases that gets us from $25 million to $50 million, the the grand total over the next 30 years is over $1.1 billion. (And that’s a VERY conservative estimate)

Furthermore, all of the above assumes a 30 year life of the stadium, but there’s no reason to believe it won’t last longer. Their current stadium will be 50 when it gets torn down.

Sorry not sorry, but the argument that NY’s investment won’t get returned is a failure. From a financial standpoint, it’s not a bad deal.

another article below. Consider that the money paid upfront by the state is not equivalent to tax revenue spread over 30 years. 850 million paid in 2022 would be worth well over 1.5 billion by the time the stadium is 30 years old. Its a bad deal for the tax payers. Its ridiculous that the Bills owner who is worth 7 billion and will make a killing financially in the stadium could not finance the stadium or most of it by himself. Pegula should have invested the money....the state could certainly use that money for more important things like feeding hungry children and educating them and improving the quality of medical care for uninsured.
F Pegula (greedy SOB)

The Buffalo Bills pulled off the NFL's latest stadium funding heist

In the end, the deal wasn't as bad as western New York taxpayers might have expected. Rather than be on the hook for $1.1 billion to build the Buffalo Bills a new stadium, they'll only owe $850 million. That means the public is slated to fund roughly

ftw.usatoday.com

 

[Ring 6]

Debt... Corporate structuring... Write offs and depreciation... Charitable foundations... Tax abatements for investment... Do I really need to go on?

As for the cap, not every dollar earmarked under the cap is spent... Until the contracts are fully guaranteed, that wont happen

They shouldn't get it for free, but they do. It's ridiculous the amount of money that gets handed out to billionaires...

We all know why they get free money. Only a fool thinks they pay every tax owed based on "simple math" ... It's my bad I forgot who I was talking to, Mr simple himself

An individual doesnt pay less tax because they have debt. (Some can write off mortgage interest. That is hardly a manipulation)
Write offs? You will have to explain what is being written off.
Depreciation? Really? You think that a business expense that is not allowed to be taken at the time it is incurred but instead must be taken as long term depreciation is a tax advantage? Really? You know you can only depreciate items purchased for use in a business venture right? So that deduction would only limit the taxable business income, not manipulate employment income.
Charitable foundations. How Is that a manipulation? If I give $1000 to charity and therefore deduct the money I GAVE AWAY in order to not have to GIVE IT AWAY AND PAY TAX ON IT I’m not a smart manipulator I’d I give away 1000 to save 400.
Tax abatements for investment. Please explain how an individual can do that. What abatement? How do I invest, earn money and abate my taxes? I think you made that one up. Yeah, I think you should go on if you want to make your point.

Wrong. Every dollar of cap charge is spent. You cannot be charged on the cap for dollars not yet spent. It’s impossible. You can however spend MORE and have it count later.

Shouldn’t? Based upon what?

Only a fool makes a post like you just did showing you have no idea what you are talking about.
Tell me more about these phantom manipulations that you think rich people can do but no one else can.

 

[Pape]

An individual doesnt pay less tax because they have debt. (Some can write off mortgage interest. That is hardly a manipulation)
Write offs? You will have to explain what is being written off.
Depreciation? Really? You think that a business expense that is not allowed to be taken at the time it is incurred but instead must be taken as long term depreciation is a tax advantage? Really? You know you can only depreciate items purchased for use in a business venture right? So that deduction would only limit the taxable business income, not manipulate employment income.
Charitable foundations. How Is that a manipulation? If I give $1000 to charity and therefore deduct the money I GAVE AWAY in order to not have to GIVE IT AWAY AND PAY TAX ON IT I’m not a smart manipulator I’d I give away 1000 to save 400.
Tax abatements for investment. Please explain how an individual can do that. What abatement? How do I invest, earn money and abate my taxes? I think you made that one up. Yeah, I think you should go on if you want to make your point.

Wrong. Every dollar of cap charge is spent. You cannot be charged on the cap for dollars not yet spent. It’s impossible. You can however spend MORE and have it count later.

Shouldn’t? Based upon what?

Only a fool makes a post like you just did showing you have no idea what you are talking about.
Tell me more about these phantom manipulations that you think rich people can do but no one else can.

Debt is a useful tool, idiot. ever have a mortgage? Get a tax write off because of the mortgage?

Charitable foundations aren't a stupid $50 donation ... they are a way to move money around - ask trump he's manipulated his family charity to enrich himself (well in his case through fraud, so maybe he's not a good example) ... hell the clintons did the same thing...

I swear listening to you, one would think bob kraft walks into h&r block every april to get his taxes done hoping for a refund...

There is an entire industry in this country that deals with taxes. Get a job that pays more than minimum wage, you might figure that one out einstein... so, really, Gtfo of here. If you cant understand basic economics, why should i waste my time with you?

 

[The Brandon Five]

The article says that a study commissioned by the state says the Bills generate $25 million a year in taxes (most of which is income taxes).

$25 million times 30 years is $750 million. But anyone with half a brain knows the $25 million number is going to increase drastically over the next 3 decades. It’ll certainly double at the very least (but probably increase by much more). So if we assume it doubles over the next 30 years, and pro rate annual increases that gets us from $25 million to $50 million, the the grand total over the next 30 years is over $1.1 billion. (And that’s a VERY conservative estimate)

Furthermore, all of the above assumes a 30 year life of the stadium, but there’s no reason to believe it won’t last longer. Their current stadium will be 50 when it gets torn down.

Sorry not sorry, but the argument that NY’s investment won’t get returned is a failure. From a financial standpoint, it’s not a bad deal.

The present value of a $25 million annuity over 30 years is less than $500 million if you use a discount rate of 3%. The CPI rose 7% last year. If you use that rate the present value is $310 million. So no, not a good deal financially at all.

Y'all's math needs some work.

 

[Ring 6]

Debt is a useful tool, idiot. ever have a mortgage? Get a tax write off because of the mortgage?

Charitable foundations aren't a stupid $50 donation ... they are a way to move money around - ask trump he's manipulated his family charity to enrich himself (well in his case through fraud, so maybe he's not a good example) ... hell the clintons did the same thing...

I swear listening to you, one would think bob kraft walks into h&r block every april to get his taxes done hoping for a refund...

There is an entire industry in this country that deals with taxes. Get a job that pays more than minimum wage, you might figure that one out einstein... so, really, Gtfo of here. If you cant understand basic economics, why should i waste my time with you?

So your answer to manipulating your tax rate is a mortgage interest deduction? Remarkable.
You think that a charitable foundation is a “way to move money around”. Please explain how you reduce the tax liability on your personal income by “moving money around” a charitable foundation. Clearly you see how weak your argument is. You are sensationalizing concepts you don’t even understand.

See how this goes? You make a vague claim about something you clearly dint understand and I ask you to explain it and you come up with “write offs” and the fact that since accountants exist that’s proof you can reduce your tax burden with manipulation.
You have failed to give one cogent example of manipulation and instead insult me, and imply my income is low, when I guarantee you that it dwarfs yours.

The fact remains that everyone pays taxes in the same bracket structure, and there are no magical manipulations that can make you pay less in your taxable income. As usual you make uneducated claims that you heard someone else make, and can’t back them up.

 

[Ring 6]

The present value of a $25 million annuity over 30 years is less than $500 million if you use a discount rate of 3%. The CPI rose 7% last year. If you use that rate the present value is $310 million. So no, not a good deal financially at all.

Y'all's math needs some work.

They aren’t taking an annuity. They are selling municipal bonds and paying them back over many years, so this example is entirely irrelevant.

 

[Ring 6]

another article below. Consider that the money paid upfront by the state is not equivalent to tax revenue spread over 30 years. 850 million paid in 2022 would be worth well over 1.5 billion by the time the stadium is 30 years old. Its a bad deal for the tax payers. Its ridiculous that the Bills owner who is worth 7 billion and will make a killing financially in the stadium could not finance the stadium or most of it by himself. Pegula should have invested the money....the state could certainly use that money for more important things like feeding hungry children and educating them and improving the quality of medical care for uninsured.
F Pegula (greedy SOB)

The Buffalo Bills pulled off the NFL's latest stadium funding heist

In the end, the deal wasn't as bad as western New York taxpayers might have expected. Rather than be on the hook for $1.1 billion to build the Buffalo Bills a new stadium, they'll only owe $850 million. That means the public is slated to fund roughly

ftw.usatoday.com

Of course it’s equivalent because that’s how it’s paid back.
Under what circumstances would a state government ever raise 850 million to invest for 30 years?
They are borrowing the 850 million. The tax revenue they receive by the Bills existing pats it off.

I’m glad you know what Pegula should do with his money. When you earn as much as he has and it’s up to you, you will be all set.

 

[Pape]

So your answer to manipulating your tax rate is a mortgage interest deduction? Remarkable.
You think that a charitable foundation is a “way to move money around”. Please explain how you reduce the tax liability on your personal income by “moving money around” a charitable foundation. Clearly you see how weak your argument is. You are sensationalizing concepts you don’t even understand.

See how this goes? You make a vague claim about something you clearly dint understand and I ask you to explain it and you come up with “write offs” and the fact that since accountants exist that’s proof you can reduce your tax burden with manipulation.
You have failed to give one cogent example of manipulation and instead insult me, and imply my income is low, when I guarantee you that it dwarfs yours.

The fact remains that everyone pays taxes in the same bracket structure, and there are no magical manipulations that can make you pay less in your taxable income. As usual you make uneducated claims that you heard someone else make, and can’t back them up.

Dude. Just stop with the word salad.

Amazon Avoids More Than $5 Billion in Corporate Income Taxes, Reports 6 Percent Tax Rate on $35 Billion of US Income

Amazon avoided about $5.2 billion of federal income tax on its record $36 billion in U.S. pretax income for fiscal year 2021.

itep.org

Seems pretty magical to me.

And incomes? LMAO, you guaranteed that to ice as well... But when the time came to put up or shut up, you shut up...

Tax planning and tax strategies do indeed lessen the tax burden for both corporate and individuals. If your income dwarfed anybodys you'd know that

 

[mgteich]

The present value of a $25 million annuity over 30 years is less than $500 million if you use a discount rate of 3%. The CPI rose 7% last year. If you use that rate the present value is $310 million. So no, not a good deal financially at all.

Y'all's math needs some work.

You won't make much money as an analyst if you presume a discount rate of 7% for a 30 year stream of monies

 

[Ring 6]

Dude. Just stop with the word salad.

Amazon Avoids More Than $5 Billion in Corporate Income Taxes, Reports 6 Percent Tax Rate on $35 Billion of US Income

Amazon avoided about $5.2 billion of federal income tax on its record $36 billion in U.S. pretax income for fiscal year 2021.

itep.org

Seems pretty magical to me.

And incomes? LMAO, you guaranteed that to ice as well... But when the time came to put up or shut up, you shut up...

Tax planning and tax strategies do indeed lessen the tax burden for both corporate and individuals. If your income dwarfed anybodys you'd know that

Please explain to me how a player on the Buffalo Bills can utilize the (legal) corporate tax advantages of Amazon.

I put up, he backed out. I make the same offer to you, since YOU brought it up . Will you accept it or will you not back up your mouth?

You keep throwing out things like “tax strategies” or “write offs” which indicate you don’t actually know any. Please explain for me a couple of examples of how a Bills player can just create a strategy that means he doesn’t pay taxes like everyone else. Pull out a 1040 and tell me which line items can be manipulated, and if they can why doesn’t everyone do it? I am sure you will come back with a BS answer like “not everyone is rich” further proving your lack of knowledge, so please give me an example of what the rich guy does.

 

[The Brandon Five]

They aren’t taking an annuity. They are selling municipal bonds and paying them back over many years, so this example is entirely irrelevant.

I am referring to the payback in the form of taxes.

 

[The Brandon Five]

You won't make much money as an analyst if you presume a discount rate of 7% for a 30 year stream of monies

I wasn't assuming it. I was just pointing to the fact that given how quickly our currency is losing value that future money is worth that much less, but thanks for the tip.

 

[XLIX]

The present value of a $25 million annuity over 30 years is less than $500 million if you use a discount rate of 3%. The CPI rose 7% last year. If you use that rate the present value is $310 million. So no, not a good deal financially at all.

Y'all's math needs some work.

Now run the present value given the assumption that the $25 million number will increase roughly $1 million per year over the next 30 years, which is a very safe - if conservative - assumption given how the NFL revenues are exploding.

And Biden won't be president forever, so to use 7% a year for the next 30 years period is weaksauce.

 

[Pape]

Please explain to me how a player on the Buffalo Bills can utilize the (legal) corporate tax advantages of Amazon.

I put up, he backed out. I make the same offer to you, since YOU brought it up . Will you accept it or will you not back up your mouth?

You keep throwing out things like “tax strategies” or “write offs” which indicate you don’t actually know any. Please explain for me a couple of examples of how a Bills player can just create a strategy that means he doesn’t pay taxes like everyone else. Pull out a 1040 and tell me which line items can be manipulated, and if they can why doesn’t everyone do it? I am sure you will come back with a BS answer like “not everyone is rich” further proving your lack of knowledge, so please give me an example of what the rich guy does.

You didnt put up lmao... you kept moving the goal posts so you wouldnt have to ... we can ask him... or anyone can read the posts, they are still there...

Why doesn't everyone do it? lmao, The smart ones do do it...