OT: Bills new stadium public funding

[sb1]

Wow $600M chipped in from NY state funding. Bills owner who is worth something like 10x that amount couldn’t pay for his own stadium?

I’m sure NYC and Staten Island taxpayers will appreciate the move especially if the team relocates.

Kraft paid for ours in Foxboro but wasn’t the Hartford plan also funded by the state of CT?

 

[rochrist]

I thought it was more like $850 mil. Ah. It is when it's all put together.

"Under their 30-year lease with New York State and Erie County for construction of the new stadium, the Bills will get a record $850 million from public taxpayers, as well as $250 million from Erie County, in addition to the $600 million state funds."

A clearer description:

"Under the deal, the state would finance $600 million of the construction costs, while Erie County, where the stadium will be built adjacent to its current home, would cover $250 million. The remainder would be financed through a $200 million loan from the N.F.L. that was approved on Monday, plus $350 million from the team’s owners."

So $850 mil from the taxpayers and another $200 mil from the NFL. Must be nice to be a Buffalo Bills owner.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

prob wouldn’t have approved 5yrs ago when the bildos suck

 

[Patriot Missile]

You can just tell he wanted to move that team elsewhere. He’s trying to capitalize on the Bills recent success. Pretty disgraceful considering the fan loyalty they’ve given. Maybe he will throw in a years supply of bildos to throw on the new field to make up for his cheap ***? God, he disgusts me.

I’m glad Kraft was able to work it out with the state and their tough stance. However, can you imagine if they did leave and had all the success in St Louis? It would of been Babe Ruthx50.

 

[upstater]

You can just tell he wanted to move that team elsewhere. He’s trying to capitalize on the Bills recent success. Pretty disgraceful considering the fan loyalty they’ve given. Maybe he will throw in a years supply of bildos to throw on the new field to make up for his cheap ***? God, he disgusts me.

I’m glad Kraft was able to work it out with the state and their tough stance. However, can you imagine if they did leave and had all the success in St Louis? It would of been Babe Ruthx50.

Don’t think he wanted to move the team given his investment in the region and his sports enterprises. He’s plowed over a billion into it. But this $850m is beyond absurd and they’ll never see the money back. As for NYC and downstate voters the state poured a lot of money into the Mets and Yankees stadia.

 

[jah]

Meanwhile, nobody seems to know why our schools have no money and our roads are full of potholes...

 

[Pape]

You can just tell he wanted to move that team elsewhere. He’s trying to capitalize on the Bills recent success. Pretty disgraceful considering the fan loyalty they’ve given. Maybe he will throw in a years supply of bildos to throw on the new field to make up for his cheap ***? God, he disgusts me.

I’m glad Kraft was able to work it out with the state and their tough stance. However, can you imagine if they did leave and had all the success in St Louis? It would of been Babe Ruthx50.

kraft leveraged hartford...

st louis was orthwein

 

[BelichickFan]

Meanwhile, nobody seems to know why our schools have no money and our roads are full of potholes...

We need some kind of federal law banning public funding so teams can't threaten one city with another. The owners have the money and we have enough $20M WR.

 

[Ring 6]

Don’t think he wanted to move the team given his investment in the region and his sports enterprises. He’s plowed over a billion into it. But this $850m is beyond absurd and they’ll never see the money back. As for NYC and downstate voters the state poured a lot of money into the Mets and Yankees stadia.

They will get it back in taxes.

 

[Ring 6]

We need some kind of federal law banning public funding so teams can't threaten one city with another. The owners have the money and we have enough $20M WR.

I don’t think the federal government can make a law telling a state how to spend its revenue.
Take away out in the open public funding and it will be replaced by behind the scenes bribes, payoffs and kickbacks.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Like I always said...whatever you want to say about Kraft, he leveraged Hartford to pay MORE out of his own pocket to keep the team in Foxboro. It's not like Mass gave him a better deal. Connecticut (if I remember right) was basically paying for all of it. In Mass, Kraft had to pay for everything but infrastructure improvements.

 

[BTTA]

I don’t think the federal government can make a law telling a state how to spend its revenue.
Take away out in the open public funding and it will be replaced by behind the scenes bribes, payoffs and kickbacks.

The NFL is structurally in violation of antitrust, and gets an exception and wink wink from Congress, which can indeed create conditions.

 

[BTTA]

Meanwhile, nobody seems to know why our schools have no money and our roads are full of potholes...

I guess the mythology is that the region is better off economically "investing" this money to keep the team there. No politician wants to have the label of being the one to let the team go. On the other hand, I'd think an ambitious politician could make a name for themselves by making a stink about this, and as you pointed out, posing it as a choice between schools, roads, public health, etc.

 

[Ring 6]

The NFL is structurally in violation of antitrust, and gets an exception and wink wink from Congress, which can indeed create conditions.

Not sure how that applies to my comment, but ask yourself why does the NFL have an anti-trust exemption.

 

[rochrist]

You can just tell he wanted to move that team elsewhere. He’s trying to capitalize on the Bills recent success. Pretty disgraceful considering the fan loyalty they’ve given. Maybe he will throw in a years supply of bildos to throw on the new field to make up for his cheap ***? God, he disgusts me.

I’m glad Kraft was able to work it out with the state and their tough stance. However, can you imagine if they did leave and had all the success in St Louis? It would of been Babe Ruthx50.

If they had moved to St Louis it would have been under James Orthwein and I highly doubt any of the success they've had here would have transpired.

 

[mgteich]

I guess that you guys want to take away the right of the people of a state to support the NFL keeping ONE team in New York state. IMO, in a democracy, the elected officials have the right to choose to support NFL football teams. It is not a matter of welfare for someone that can't afford to buy his own stadium. I don't think that a referendum of voters would produce a different result.
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Maybe the state and local areas will get enough back in taxes and jobs to make thi economically worth it. Again, that is NOT the issue. That would be the issue if we were talking about a steel mill wanting incentives to stay.

This is a very simple issue. Should owners be forced to pay for their stadiums, or should the states where they choose to locate be allowed to support the team by VOTES of elected representatives.

 

[mgteich]

The Bills are the least valuable team in the NFL and lose miney every year, while for comparison the patriots are the 2nd most valuable and have an operating income of over $140M per year.

Apparently, the attitude of many here is that because the owners of the Bills are rich from other endeavors, they should just suck it up and fund a stadium in a city where they lose money every year. That makes no sense to me. The team is an economic loser in Buffalo. Of course, the team should investigate other cities and other markets.
=========
CONSIDER
that the owners might have investigated and were considering moving to San Antonio or Toronto or even St Louis.

Of course, the people of the Buffalo area want the team to stay. Perhaps the team should have been sold to the fans, so the fans could own the team as in Green Bay (let the fans lose the money). OR, perhaps the owner should be allowed to operate a business with the goal of making money and increasing value. The NFL is a business. The teams have every right to make money, as do the players. The vast majority of the revenue comes from media.

The State of NY is offering a considerable amount of money for the owners to stay. Personally, I'm not sure that the owners are making the best business decision (I suspect they would be better off in San Antonio). But, I have little doubt that the fans in Western New York are very happy that the team is staying.
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JUST BTW,
a small amount of revenue comes from tickets sales and concessions. The gross amount is less than 20%. The profits, of course, are much less.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

......you're defending multibillionaires who operate most of these teams as vanity projects/tax shelters? If there was no advantage to owning a NFL team, the value of selling that team wouldn't keep going up.

This does not seem a very well thought out take, mg.

 

[rochrist]

A plague on both their houses.

 

[mgteich]

The Bills are the least valuable team in the NFL and lose miney every year, while for comparison the patriots are the 2nd most valuable and have an operating income of over $140M per year.

Apparently, the attitude of many here is that because the owners of the Bills are rich from other endeavors, they should just suck it up and fund a stadium in a city where they lose money every year. That makes no sense to me. The team is an economic loser in Buffalo. Of course, the team should investigate other cities and other markets.
=========
CONSIDER
that the owners might have investigated and were considering moving to San Antonio or Toronto or even St Louis.

Of course, the people of the Buffalo area want the team to stay. Perhaps the team should have been sold to the fans, so the fans could own the team as in Green Bay (let the fans lose the money). OR, perhaps the owner should be allowed to operate a business with the goal of making money and increasing value. The NFL is a business. The teams have every right to make money, as do the players. The vast majority of the revenue comes from media.

The State of NY is offering a considerable amount of money for the owners to stay. Personally, I'm not sure that the owners are making the best business decision (I suspect they would be better off in San Antonio). But, I have little doubt that the fans in Western New York are very happy that the team is staying.
==========
JUST BTW,
a small amount of revenue comes from tickets sales and concessions. The gross amount is less than 20%. The profits, of course, are much less.

......you're defending multibillionaires who operate most of these teams as vanity projects/tax shelters? If there was no advantage to owning a NFL team, the value of selling that team wouldn't keep going up.

This does not seem a very well thought out take, mg.

First, let's be clear. I think that the very rich should be paying more in taxes. I favor minimum tax rates for both individuals and corporations.

I have an MBA in Finance from a top university. I do indeed understand the economics.

You seem to think that if an owner loses say $17M and deducts this loss, that somehow he didn't lose money. All that happened is that the taxpayers gave back part of his losses. I do agree that many owners don't really care about whether they make money or not. Ownership for them is indeed about pride and vanity.

The value of teams goes up for three reasons:
1) media is willing to pay more and more
2) some teams are very well managed (e.g. the patriots)
3) some teams are in very good markets
4) some team make lots money from endorsements
5) and yes, some teams have much better stadium situations than others

Of course, there is advantage in owning an NFL team. However, how profitable a team is depends on how well the team makes sense as a business.

Yes, it is difficult to lose money on an NFL team. But some teams manage to do just that. It is a lot lot easier to make money on an NFL team is DAL than one in BUF; that's just the way it is. And, NE would have not been very profitable under other ownerships.