BB in damage control mode regarding Brady's departure

[Ring 6]

I don't think their offense is elite at all. I like their RBs who are a top 10 group but you don't win championships with a decent running game. Their pass offense is mediocre. They scored 104 points in two games against the Jets and Jaguars in blowouts so the 6th ranking in scoring doesn't impress me. So I guess you're saying you arbitrarily posted those numbers because they're seemly not using them to support an argument.


Pretty easily... the 2020 Bucs... they went from 17 consecutive seasons with no playoff wins to a Super Bowl title. Look at Cincinnati... from 4-11-1 to a Super Bowl appearance by bolstering their defense through free agency and adding Chase through the draft.

A lot of teams can get a bump in wins by adding a few key players and they don't all have to spend historic amounts of money like the Patriots did. How many of those signings were actually worth it?... Judon, Henry, Bourne.. two of which weren't even the premier signing at their position. Agholor, Smith, Mills, Godchaux and Anderson either haven't worked out or weren't worth the money or both. So I don't think it's incredible when you throw a bunch of signings against the wall to see which will stick.


By a lot?... I don't agree with that. They won 5 less games in 2020 but you're also saying they made a significant step forward in 2021 when they lost 1 less game and had the same number of playoff wins. That 2019 team started falling apart in December... they finished out the season 2-4. In 2020 they finished out the season 1-3 and last year 1-4. If you tally their December/January record over the last three seasons... 6-11 and winless in the postseason... the days of playing your best football after Thanksgiving seems to have gone south (literally).

You used the word elite, not me, and appear to be arguing with yourself.
They scored the 6th most points. All of the teams who scored less played the same number of games. Scoring points is the goal of an offense. Impressing you with shiny objects is not.

Tampa was 3rd in scoring and 3rd in yards in 2019. And 3rd and 7th in 2020. That is not an incredible rebuilt of an impotent offense before FA into a much better one because of free agency. You seem to not want to argue the point, but make up a different one. You do that a lot.

Before FA they had a rookie QB no C,G,RT,TE and Meyers and Harry at WR.
From that starting point the expectation of what they could create on offense in free agency was nowhere near the 6th highest scoring offense, with the 2nd highest score/possession %. Not sure why you are adding defense to that, oh wait, I am, see above.

Again, you refuse to stay on topic.
Look at the 2019 team aside from qb and the 2020 team aside from qb. Did they add more and better players than they lost or did they lose more and better players than they gained. It’s not even arguable. So, to the point that you keep avoiding, if the Patriots kept Brady and even if they did it for the cost of cam Newton (so they could afford the same team) they were not improved over the 2019 team that limped into the playoffs and were one and done.
Then when you subtract the players to account for Brady’s cap hit, they would have been even worse. There is zero chance the 2020 patriots are winning a SB if Brady stayed.

 

[sb1]

There is zero chance the 2020 patriots are winning a SB if Brady stayed.

Why is it zero?

They would have made the playoffs for sure. Anything can happen from there.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You sure?

He lobbed it, like he does on a lot of his deep throws

 

[Ring 6]

the passing offense needs a lot of work, he won't except it. In fact he talks about misleading stats where as his stats are the most misleading at all because those offense stat imply that we had a top 5 offense. Our passing offense was average at best, some just need to see the games,especially against other playoff contending teams,

So if a team passes for 200 yards and scores 31 points and a different team passes for 300 yards and scores 17 you think the 17 point offense was better?
And you thinking scoring a TD is misleading if you don’t like how many passing yards went into it?

 

[Ring 6]

Why is it zero?

They would have made the playoffs for sure. Anything can happen from there.

It was zero.

 

[sb1]

He lobbed it, like he does on a lot of his deep throws

Laser. No effort at all.

 

[venecol]

Pats should've started Stidham in 2020 instead of Cam. Bill had plenty of support on the forum. There were true believers.




Timmy excited about Stidham being QBOF, celebrates with his favorite snack.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Pats should've started Stidham in 2020 instead of Cam. Bill had plenty of support on the forum. There were true believers.




Timmy excited about Stidham being QBOF, celebrates with his favorite snack.

So liberals are a-holes...thanks for confirming.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Laser. No effort at all.

Where was that throw in SB 42 at the end? Brady's deep throw to Moss was a lob that took forever to reach him, enabling Corey Webster to get his hand in to break up the pass.

 

[sb1]

Where was that throw in SB 42 at the end? Brady's deep throw to Moss was a lob

How did these lobs turn out?


That's how you throw to him.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

How did these lobs turn out?


That's how you throw to him.

Awful throws that ended up as completions thanks to Moss

 

[venecol]

Imagine if Brady had Rice during 8 of his peak seasons. Montana was lucky.

 

[sb1]

Awful throws that ended up as completions thanks to Moss

Nope they were perfect throws based on who he was throwing to. That's how you throw to Moss.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Laser. No effort at all.

You've posted 3 drop the mic answers but he'll never shut the blank up.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Imagine if Brady had Rice during 8 of his peak seasons. Montana was lucky.

Imagine if Montana had Rice during 8 seasons...

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You've posted 3 drop the mic answers but he'll never shut the blank up.

And you'll never stop complaining about someone whom you supposedly have on ignore...

 

[crawhammer]

Stafford had 2 fewer TDs and 500 yards on 120 fewer passing attempts. That shows that Brady was not really an MVP candidate and had numbers that were inflated. And no, they did not lose in OT to the Rams. Stafford got the ball with 42 seconds left and 1 TO and led a GW drive. Even Brady has never done this in the playoffs.

Right, my bad on the divisional game... should have gone to OT but didn't because Tampa's secondary forgot to cover the best receiver in the NFL.

Brady has never done what? Lead game-winning postseason drives? He's only done that an all-time best 14 times... Elway is second with 6.

Pretty much everybody who watched the NFL this season thought Rodgers or Brady was the MVP. Stafford wasn't even a consideration. You're embarrassing yourself with this nonsense.

What do you mean? He had an opportunity to do it in SB 42 (with 28 seconds and 3 TOs, only needing a FG) and again in SB 46. It's not as if he's never been in a 40 second situation before. The best I can think of was his GW drive vs NO when Thompkins caught a last second TD, but this was done with 1:13 on the clock. In SB38, of course, the Carolina kicker spotted the Pats the ball on our own 40. Mahomes and Rodgers have done it several times.

Are you serious? Brady has 67 game-winning drives in his career, the most in NFL history by a lot. He's got 2 against Mahomes who has 12. Rodgers has 29. Neither Mahomes or Rodgers has a game-winning drive against Brady.

You used the word elite, not me, and appear to be arguing with yourself.

You suggested I thought they were elite because I was taking your stats seriously. Which is strange.

Tampa was 3rd in scoring and 3rd in yards in 2019. And 3rd and 7th in 2020. That is not an incredible rebuilt of an impotent offense before FA into a much better one because of free agency. You seem to not want to argue the point, but make up a different one. You do that a lot.

The Tampa Bay situation is pretty obvious when it comes to impact of FA signings:
1. Brady
2. Fournette
3. AB

They were 1-0 in the Super Bowl, which the stat that counts the most.

Before FA they had a rookie QB no C,G,RT,TE and Meyers and Harry at WR.
From that starting point the expectation of what they could create on offense in free agency was nowhere near the 6th highest scoring offense, with the 2nd highest score/possession %. Not sure why you are adding defense to that, oh wait, I am, see above.

You're like arguing with the Riddler. What is your point with these stats? When I say you're pointing them out as evidence you think the offense was very good you say that's not what you meant. When I say they misrepresent the offense as being very good you insist they're representative of their success. You want to ignore the defensive FA signings but they had as many offensive FA not work out as well... Agholor and Smith were the premier pieces added to the offense and they both flopped. You're not being entirely consistent. As near as I can figure you think the 7-9 team was largely devoid of talent whereas you think the infusion of free agents resulted in significant improvements even though their record was 10-8, which isn't significantly better... it's one less loss.

Again, you refuse to stay on topic.
Look at the 2019 team aside from qb and the 2020 team aside from qb. Did they add more and better players than they lost or did they lose more and better players than they gained. It’s not even arguable. So, to the point that you keep avoiding, if the Patriots kept Brady and even if they did it for the cost of cam Newton (so they could afford the same team) they were not improved over the 2019 team that limped into the playoffs and were one and done.
Then when you subtract the players to account for Brady’s cap hit, they would have been even worse. There is zero chance the 2020 patriots are winning a SB if Brady stayed.

It's impossible to say what exactly the roster would have been had Brady stayed but I'm confident it would have been good enough for them to make the playoffs... Brady makes the playoffs 95% of the time. From there you can't discount Brady in the postseason... he wins the Super Bowl 35% of the time.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Right, my bad on the divisional game... should have gone to OT but didn't because Tampa's secondary forgot to cover the best receiver in the NFL.

Brady has never done what? Lead game-winning postseason drives? He's only done that an all-time best 14 times... Elway is second with 6.

Pretty much everybody who watched the NFL this season thought Rodgers or Brady was the MVP. Stafford wasn't even a consideration. You're embarrassing yourself with this nonsense.


Are you serious? Brady has 67 game-winning drives in his career, the most in NFL history by a lot. He's got 2 against Mahomes who has 12. Rodgers has 29. Neither Mahomes or Rodgers has a game-winning drive against Brady.


You suggested I thought they were elite because I was taking your stats seriously. Which is strange.


The Tampa Bay situation is pretty obvious when it comes to impact of FA signings:
1. Brady
2. Fournette
3. AB

They were 1-0 in the Super Bowl, which the stat that counts the most.


You're like arguing with the Riddler. What is your point with these stats? When I say you're pointing them out as evidence you think the offense was very good you say that's not what you meant. When I say they misrepresent the offense as being very good you insist they're representative of their success. You want to ignore the defensive FA signings but they had as many offensive FA not work out as well... Agholor and Smith were the premier pieces added to the offense and they both flopped. You're not being entirely consistent. As near as I can figure you think the 7-9 team was largely devoid of talent whereas you think the infusion of free agents resulted in significant improvements even though their record was 10-8, which isn't significantly better... it's one less loss.


It's impossible to say what exactly the roster would have been had Brady stayed but I'm confident it would have been good enough for them to make the playoffs... Brady makes the playoffs 95% of the time. From there you can't discount Brady in the postseason... he wins the Super Bowl 35% of the time.

Yes, but my point is how many game winning drives does he have getting the ball with 45 seconds or so left? I can only think of one - SB38 where the Panthers kicked the ball out of bounds with 50 seconds left allowing us to get the ball on our own 40 and get an easy FG. But I've never seen him do it when he gets the ball deep in our own territory like what Stafford did.

 

[Ring 6]

Right, my bad on the divisional game... should have gone to OT but didn't because Tampa's secondary forgot to cover the best receiver in the NFL.

Brady has never done what? Lead game-winning postseason drives? He's only done that an all-time best 14 times... Elway is second with 6.

Pretty much everybody who watched the NFL this season thought Rodgers or Brady was the MVP. Stafford wasn't even a consideration. You're embarrassing yourself with this nonsense.


Are you serious? Brady has 67 game-winning drives in his career, the most in NFL history by a lot. He's got 2 against Mahomes who has 12. Rodgers has 29. Neither Mahomes or Rodgers has a game-winning drive against Brady.


You suggested I thought they were elite because I was taking your stats seriously. Which is strange.


The Tampa Bay situation is pretty obvious when it comes to impact of FA signings:
1. Brady
2. Fournette
3. AB

They were 1-0 in the Super Bowl, which the stat that counts the most.


You're like arguing with the Riddler. What is your point with these stats? When I say you're pointing them out as evidence you think the offense was very good you say that's not what you meant. When I say they misrepresent the offense as being very good you insist they're representative of their success. You want to ignore the defensive FA signings but they had as many offensive FA not work out as well... Agholor and Smith were the premier pieces added to the offense and they both flopped. You're not being entirely consistent. As near as I can figure you think the 7-9 team was largely devoid of talent whereas you think the infusion of free agents resulted in significant improvements even though their record was 10-8, which isn't significantly better... it's one less loss.


It's impossible to say what exactly the roster would have been had Brady stayed but I'm confident it would have been good enough for them to make the playoffs... Brady makes the playoffs 95% of the time. From there you can't discount Brady in the postseason... he wins the Super Bowl 35% of the time.

I posted their results and you said that meant I said they were elite. So you drew that conclusion not me.
How can you not take scoring seriously? If you say you don’t take points scored and frequency of scoring as a serious yardstick for an offense, you only prove you are a fool.

My point with these stats is to show the results the offense had. No opinion that conflicts with results is a good one. Many posters here, including yourself, grade the patriots on a curve of super bowl or suck.
These numbers were introduced into this thread in the context of 2 things.
1) From where the offense stood before free agency, these are remarkable results, so those trashing the impact of the offensive free agent acquisitions are wrong. And 2) accomplishing those results with a rookie Qb and almost all new targets is a very encouraging sign fit the future.
I am not “ignoring” the defensive signings, I am not including them in a discussion about the offense.
10 wins is 3 more than 7. 10 wins and #6 scoring, #2 scoring % with a rookie QB is almost unheard of.

It is not impossible to say what the roster would have been if Brady stayed, because they used all the resources they had without paying him, so the roster they had minus whoever wasn’t there to pay Brady is what they would have had. By all means let’s use math and pretend the 2019-2020 Patriots were just as good as the dynasty and had no drop off. Jesus try to think a little.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, but my point is how many game winning drives does he have getting the ball with 45 seconds or so left? I can only think of one - SB38 where the Panthers kicked the ball out of bounds with 50 seconds left allowing us to get the ball on our own 40 and get an easy FG. But I've never seen him do it when he gets the ball deep in our own territory like what Stafford did.

I remember once there was this game against the rams….