2022 PTP Draft Board / Pats Draft Talk

[Jim Beankie]

It's no mystery this years WR class is really ridiculously good. I see some very good prospects coming from it I'm even warming up to Drake London. FredFD I am not going to make NKeal Harry make me think any less of Drake London. On tape you can see London is a superior player he's not stiff for his size and should be a RZ threat right off the bat. I think we will double dip at WR and I think London might be there at 21 he's not fast like the others just Big and agile. I think he could potentially be a surprise fall. I could be wrong I don't think he's a sure Top 10 or 12 maybe if he had a little more speed. Imagine London/Moore on a double dip or a London/Dotson Hmmmmm.

I think it's the ankle fracture that's clouding my judgment. I just have to remember Waddle broke his ankle, too, and he's limping along just fine.

 

[Jim Beankie]

DK ran a 4.33 40 time, Burks ran a 4.55. Harry ran a 4.57.

My concern is that like Harry, Burks has good speed for the college game but I'm skeptical it translates to the NFL.

Burks reached 22.6mph as a ball carrier during a TD run in college (which I'm fairly sure of after scrutinizing the tape - I was highly skeptical at first). Tyreek and Mostert (2 carries each over 22.6mph) are the only ball carriers to go faster in the NFL in the last 6 years per NextGenStats. That's incredible top end speed.

Edit: point of reference - 22.6mph is what DK reached during his chasedown of the Budda, and he wasn't a ball carrier (which will slow one down).

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I just took Elam off my board last night actually but he go back up. Idk he's not that physical at all and doesn't really like to tackle. If we're taking someone RD1 as CB1 for us I think we need a little more in that department.

I go back and forth on a few guys each year. Not many at all. About 5-8 prospects that are 50/50 imo. His size and fluidity are super intriguing. Has plenty of nice traits but he really doesn't like to get physical which could be a problem for us. Again theirs a few guys I go back and forth on. Last year it was Perkins and Barmore and they ended up here. Which would have given me 5 guys off my board.

Thanks for the note. I did not realize that Elam is not physical. I think we need an outside DB that can run with the fast guys and cut with the quick guys like Diggs. Booth struggled against Olave, and Stingley was not always consistent - both flags to me. Elam seemed to handle all receivers successfully, both Williams and Metchie from Alabama, and play on or off the line. If he is available at 31 or 32 it seems like a no brainer to me.



Having said that Daxton Hill ran a 4.38 40, and was 6.57 3 cone (Edelman's 3 cone was 6.62 and he is one of the quickest guys I have ever seen) - that is better than the corners. We need to replace McCourty and the Pats scouts seem to like Alabama, Georgia and Michigan players. Will BB draft Hill and have him play outside corner for a year or two and then move him to FS in 2023 or 2024? That is what he did with DMac.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

DK ran a 4.33 40 time, Burks ran a 4.55. Harry ran a 4.57.

My concern is that like Harry, Burks has good speed for the college game but I'm skeptical it translates to the NFL.

Harry ran a 4.53. And 40 doesn't matter that much -- look at Kupp, Adams, Brown (before he went off the deep end), etc. They're all in that range. Harry's issues aren't physical. He just doesn't play with the kind of fire that I thought he would. The few times we've seen him use his body to fight for position, he's been able to make plays. Anyway, this is about Burks, who has a very different playstyle. He's more of a catch-and-run kind of player, rather than just contested catches and jump balls. I really like Burks. He's got a chance to be a bigger Deebo.

I doubt we draft him, though. Too many other positions I'd rather go with in the 1st/2nd rounds. We can nab a developmental type in the middle of the draft and see what happens. In the first, I want CB/DT most likely.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

Harry ran a 4.53. And 40 doesn't matter that much -- look at Kupp, Adams, Brown (before he went off the deep end), etc. They're all in that range. Harry's issues aren't physical. He just doesn't play with the kind of fire that I thought he would. The few times we've seen him use his body to fight for position, he's been able to make plays. Anyway, this is about Burks, who has a very different playstyle. He's more of a catch-and-run kind of player, rather than just contested catches and jump balls. I really like Burks. He's got a chance to be a bigger Deebo.

I doubt we draft him, though. Too many other positions I'd rather go with in the 1st/2nd rounds. We can nab a developmental type in the middle of the draft and see what happens. In the first, I want CB/DT most likely.

The difference between guys like Kupp, Adams and Brown and Harry/Burks is quickness. Harry and Burks are big dudes who don't have the short area quickness and aren't fluid with the change of directions.

I disagree that Harry's issues aren't physical. His issue is that he can't create separation because he's not quick imo and his hands are good enough to consistently win contested catches.

Burks reached 22.6mph as a ball carrier during a TD run in college (which I'm fairly sure of after scrutinizing the tape - I was highly skeptical at first). Tyreek and Mostert (2 carries each over 22.6mph) are the only ball carriers to go faster in the NFL in the last 6 years per NextGenStats. That's incredible top end speed.

Edit: point of reference - 22.6mph is what DK reached during his chasedown of the Budda, and he wasn't a ball carrier (which will slow one down).

I think he's fast straight line if he can build up speed, but it takes him a long time to build up speed because he's not quick. I guess my issues with them is less speed and more quickness/acceleration.

 

[PatsFan2]

Harry ran a 4.53. And 40 doesn't matter that much -- look at Kupp, Adams, Brown (before he went off the deep end), etc. They're all in that range. Harry's issues aren't physical. He just doesn't play with the kind of fire that I thought he would. The few times we've seen him use his body to fight for position, he's been able to make plays. Anyway, this is about Burks, who has a very different playstyle. He's more of a catch-and-run kind of player, rather than just contested catches and jump balls. I really like Burks. He's got a chance to be a bigger Deebo.

I doubt we draft him, though. Too many other positions I'd rather go with in the 1st/2nd rounds. We can nab a developmental type in the middle of the draft and see what happens. In the first, I want CB/DT most likely.

It's no mystery but if you want success at WR's you just better Draft a Alabama Wide out. Their success rate is just ridiculous and some guys haven't even hit their strides yet Jerry Jeudy comes to mind.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

BaconG: was that Georgia Defense the Second coming of the steal curtain?? I see Four Players from that Defense in the First Round. Also I know Pats fans are jonesing for Jordan Davis but I think his Teammate D Wyatt ain't a bad consolation prize I like his game also he has very solid technique for a Big man. He also plays his gap responsibilities very well I like.

Yea they were an incredible bunch. Carter is probably one of the 5 best prospects of the Smart era. So sudden and slippery but has NFL power. Just so athletic and smooth. Again very sudden and quick. He can penetrate and get vertical or loop around an entire OL in 4 step in a twist. He's a little bowling bowl out there. Really nice contact balance and ability to redirect without losing spped.

Basically UG ask their DL to attack and pull gaps. Letting guys like Roquan, Dean and Walker (who I really like for us) fly around and make plays. While their DB's knock the hell out of targets.

I like Wyatt as well.

That whole DL impressed the country and everyone in college/pro football 100%. Special group. Davis has incredible size, motor and strength. Carter looks super athletic and versatile. Wyatt is a really nice combo of technique and athleticism.

 

[zimmy]

Harry's problem has never been speed. He was/is plenty fast enough for his size. He just can't get in and out of breaks efficiently to get open. Plus he's always hurt.

I have some scepticism about Burks in that category too. He also didn't run a proper route tree in college and I fear he will struggle to pick up the Pats system. It's why I'm also concerned byChristian Watson. I much prefer Wilson and Olave, although it's not likely either will be there. Skyy Moore, Jahan Dotson and George Pickens intrigue me in the 2nd and would be content with Metchie in the 3rd, although I think he's just going to be a complimentary piece

 

[PatsFan2]

Here's something interesting Chris Simms have Christian Watson and Alec Pierce in his Top 5 WR's. I will say right off I like Alec Pierce more than most people I think his QB held him back because he's always waiting for the football that you can plainly see on tape. Christian Watson is a little raw but his speed is off the charts and should translate. He's a Beast with the football in his hands good wiggle to his run too Great upside.

 

[PatsFan2]

Harry's problem has never been speed. He was/is plenty fast enough for his size. He just can't get in and out of breaks efficiently to get open. Plus he's always hurt.

I have some scepticism about Burks in that category too. He also didn't run a proper route tree in college and I fear he will struggle to pick up the Pats system. It's why I'm also concerned byChristian Watson. I much prefer Wilson and Olave, although it's not likely either will be there. Skyy Moore, Jahan Dotson and George Pickens intrigue me in the 2nd and would be content with Metchie in the 3rd, although I think he's just going to be a complimentary piece

I'm liking those three guys too I think they are impact material both inside and out.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

I would take jameson Williams or Garrett Wilson in the first round in a heartbeat bc I believe those two guys combine the only combination of attributes like speed route running playnaking ability to be a true difference maker in our offense like a number 1 WR. I don’t see the rest as that good for us to justify to be picked at 21.

 

[Jim Beankie]

The difference between guys like Kupp, Adams and Brown and Harry/Burks is quickness. Harry and Burks are big dudes who don't have the short area quickness and aren't fluid with the change of directions.

I disagree that Harry's issues aren't physical. His issue is that he can't create separation because he's not quick imo and his hands are good enough to consistently win contested catches.

I think he's fast straight line if he can build up speed, but it takes him a long time to build up speed because he's not quick. I guess my issues with them is less speed and more quickness/acceleration.

I'm not disagreeing with you on your overall take, as Burks's 3cone and shuttle were worse than Brady's, but here are the 10yd splits (official/electronic) for the players involved:

Kupp 1.62
Burks 1.57
Harry 1.62
Dev Adams 1.64
AJ Brown 1.56

Others PB WRs for reference:
Ja'maar 1.59
justin jefferson 1.57
deebo samuel 1.6
SDiggs 1.53
mike evans 1.6

Burks gets up to speed (acceleration) just fine in a combine setting (although there are a LOT of historically fast 10yd splits this year, so I'm still skeptical on that 1.57). I'll leave it to the experts to evaluate short range "game" speed, as I don't have the knowledge for that.

-----
Harry's problem is upstairs, I think, after Ian showed that delayed start off the LoS. He needs a change of scenery where he can just see ball and catch ball as opposed to trying to figure out "calculus."

N'Keal : The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.

Bob K: Don't... don't care?

N'Keal : It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and the Patriots win, I don't see another dime [disclaimer - don't know his incentives in his contract], so where's the motivation? And here's something else, Bob: I have eight different bosses right now.

Bob K: I beg your pardon?

N'Keal : Eight bosses.

Bob K: Eight?

N'Keal : Eight, Bob. So that means that when I make a mistake, I have eight different people coming by to tell me about it. That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled, that and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

I'm not disagreeing with you on your overall take, as Burks's 3cone and shuttle were worse than Brady's, but here are the 10yd splits (official/electronic) for the players involved:

Kupp 1.62
Burks 1.57
Harry 1.62
Dev Adams 1.64
AJ Brown 1.56

Others PB WRs for reference:
Ja'maar 1.59
justin jefferson 1.57
deebo samuel 1.6
SDiggs 1.53
mike evans 1.6

Burks gets up to speed (acceleration) just fine in a combine setting (although there are a LOT of historically fast 10yd splits this year, so I'm still skeptical on that 1.57). I'll leave it to the experts to evaluate short range "game" speed, as I don't have the knowledge for that.

-----
Harry's problem is upstairs, I think, after Ian showed that delayed start off the LoS. He needs a change of scenery where he can just see ball and catch ball as opposed to trying to figure out "calculus."

N'Keal : The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.

Bob K: Don't... don't care?

N'Keal : It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and the Patriots win, I don't see another dime [disclaimer - don't know his incentives in his contract], so where's the motivation? And here's something else, Bob: I have eight different bosses right now.

Bob K: I beg your pardon?

N'Keal : Eight bosses.

Bob K: Eight?

N'Keal : Eight, Bob. So that means that when I make a mistake, I have eight different people coming by to tell me about it. That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled, that and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired.

Great post, thanks for sharing the 10 yard numbers. You're probably right that I should be looking up the 3 cone rather than the 40.

Also, appreciate the office space reference.

I still don't want Burks. Anyone who gives me Harry flashbacks immediately gets removed from board.

 

[PatsFan2]

I'm not disagreeing with you on your overall take, as Burks's 3cone and shuttle were worse than Brady's, but here are the 10yd splits (official/electronic) for the players involved:

Kupp 1.62
Burks 1.57
Harry 1.62
Dev Adams 1.64
AJ Brown 1.56

Others PB WRs for reference:
Ja'maar 1.59
justin jefferson 1.57
deebo samuel 1.6
SDiggs 1.53
mike evans 1.6

Burks gets up to speed (acceleration) just fine in a combine setting (although there are a LOT of historically fast 10yd splits this year, so I'm still skeptical on that 1.57). I'll leave it to the experts to evaluate short range "game" speed, as I don't have the knowledge for that.

-----
Harry's problem is upstairs, I think, after Ian showed that delayed start off the LoS. He needs a change of scenery where he can just see ball and catch ball as opposed to trying to figure out "calculus."

N'Keal : The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.

Bob K: Don't... don't care?

N'Keal : It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and the Patriots win, I don't see another dime [disclaimer - don't know his incentives in his contract], so where's the motivation? And here's something else, Bob: I have eight different bosses right now.

Bob K: I beg your pardon?

N'Keal : Eight bosses.

Bob K: Eight?

N'Keal : Eight, Bob. So that means that when I make a mistake, I have eight different people coming by to tell me about it. That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled, that and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired.

I would like to know what is Harry's off season regiment like? I mean if he live us up to his First Round billing and put up a good year I'm talking about 800yds Tops in 2022 he has the 5th year option on table: thinking of it as wining the lottery anything is possible.

 

[PatsFan2]

I just took Elam off my board last night actually but he go back up. Idk he's not that physical at all and doesn't really like to tackle. If we're taking someone RD1 as CB1 for us I think we need a little more in that department.

I go back and forth on a few guys each year. Not many at all. About 5-8 prospects that are 50/50 imo. His size and fluidity are super intriguing. Has plenty of nice traits but he really doesn't like to get physical which could be a problem for us. Again theirs a few guys I go back and forth on. Last year it was Perkins and Barmore and they ended up here. Which would have given me 5 guys off my board.

The same was said about Deion Sanders just don't throw it anywhere near him because it will be coming back the other way.

 

[Zuma]

I'm talking about 80yds Tops in 2022 he has the 5th year option on table: thinking of it as wining the lottery anything is possible.

Fixed it for you

 

[PWRxWLF]

I'm not disagreeing with you on your overall take, as Burks's 3cone and shuttle were worse than Brady's, but here are the 10yd splits (official/electronic) for the players involved:

Kupp 1.62
Burks 1.57
Harry 1.62
Dev Adams 1.64
AJ Brown 1.56

Others PB WRs for reference:
Ja'maar 1.59
justin jefferson 1.57
deebo samuel 1.6
SDiggs 1.53
mike evans 1.6

Burks gets up to speed (acceleration) just fine in a combine setting (although there are a LOT of historically fast 10yd splits this year, so I'm still skeptical on that 1.57). I'll leave it to the experts to evaluate short range "game" speed, as I don't have the knowledge for that.

-----
Harry's problem is upstairs, I think, after Ian showed that delayed start off the LoS. He needs a change of scenery where he can just see ball and catch ball as opposed to trying to figure out "calculus."

N'Keal : The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.

Bob K: Don't... don't care?

N'Keal : It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and the Patriots win, I don't see another dime [disclaimer - don't know his incentives in his contract], so where's the motivation? And here's something else, Bob: I have eight different bosses right now.

Bob K: I beg your pardon?

N'Keal : Eight bosses.

Bob K: Eight?

N'Keal : Eight, Bob. So that means that when I make a mistake, I have eight different people coming by to tell me about it. That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled, that and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired.

I’m giving you a winner just for the office space plug! Boom! Hey Peter, turn it to channel NINE…

 

[PatsFan2]

Fixed it for you

Zuma I trying to give Harry the benefit of the doubt hear me out. Let look at his three years so far. Year one Rookie Year no guarantees - Year Two Cam nuff said - Year three Mac Rookie QB. IF Harry doesn't get it some this year I have officially run out of excuses for him.

 

[PWRxWLF]

I would like to know what is Harry's off season regiment like? I mean if he live us up to his First Round billing and put up a good year I'm talking about 800yds Tops in 2022 he has the 5th year option on table: thinking of it as wining the lottery anything is possible.

If he put up a big year like that, you let his ass walk and hope for a comp pick. Those guys who never show you anything and then bust out on a contract year scare the **** outta me. I mean, it’s not MY money, but it does take away from other guys gettin’ theirs.

 

[PatsFan2]

If he put up a big year like that, you let his ass walk and hope for a comp pick. Those guys who never show you anything and then bust out on a contract year scare the **** outta me. I mean, it’s not MY money, but it does take away from other guys gettin’ theirs.

Funny you have to admit for him those would be Great numbers imagine 10 TD's thrown in Hmmmm.