Cap Hell

[moosekill]

Agreed

The best time is when you have a qb on a rookie qb who is good enough and ready to win everything.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Why does it seem the Patriots are the only team who can't afford to pay players "due to the cap"

That is a perception - not reality.

They pay plenty of players.

They are fiscally disciplined and don't overpay based on projections

 

[lancerman]

It’s a multi-fold thing and people here have touched on factors of it.
The first is simple that yes there are many mechanisms to shift cap out in the future and kick the can down the world. Yes someday you have to pay the Piper so to speak….but…. the cap goes up substantially each year. This alleviates the burden and money later is always cheaper than money today. So in a lot of instances really bad situations projected in the future are somewhat mitigated by that. This is why Mahomes contract is not a real problem. It looks bad now, but it’s really team friendly because it’s not going to look awful with cap increases in the future. People were surprised he committed to 10 years because later on he’s not maxing his money potential. With us it’s more about willingness. We are rebuilding (as much as it sucks to hear), the team probably isn’t willing to push money out and play that game until they feel they have a baseline team that is winnable.

 

[NFL Mystique]

Why does it seem the Patriots are the only team who can't afford to pay players "due to the cap"

They paid alot of FA's during Brady's tenure. Moss. Welker. Revis. Gilmore. I'm probably missing some guys.

 

[NFL Mystique]

It’s a multi-fold thing and people here have touched on factors of it.
The first is simple that yes there are many mechanisms to shift cap out in the future and kick the can down the world. Yes someday you have to pay the Piper so to speak….but…. the cap goes up substantially each year. This alleviates the burden and money later is always cheaper than money today. So in a lot of instances really bad situations projected in the future are somewhat mitigated by that. This is why Mahomes contract is not a real problem. It looks bad now, but it’s really team friendly because it’s not going to look awful with cap increases in the future. People were surprised he committed to 10 years because later on he’s not maxing his money potential. With us it’s more about willingness. We are rebuilding (as much as it sucks to hear), the team probably isn’t willing to push money out and play that game until they feel they have a baseline team that is winnable.

KC also put in a stipulation where after so many years they could release Mahomes without a cap charge.

I don't know when it commences. Probably in a few years.

Obviously KC would never release him. So it'll likely not matter.

The Contract also includes a 100 million injury clause. So if Mahomes sustained a career ending injury in September (Knock on wood it doesn't happen obviously), he forfeits the future money. But gets 100 million.

 

[rochrist]

Chiefs window is open as long as Mahomes is QB. So another 10 years or so. Same for Buffalo. Same for Cincinnati. Maybe Chargers. Jmo. If you've got an elite QB, there's always an open window.

Patriots didn't have a rebuild with Brady between 2003 and 2018. Colts didn't have one with Manning. Packers were consistent playoff contenders with Favre then Rodgers.

Yes every team does eventually pay the piper. But it's usually not going to happen with smart management and coaches.

The QB salaries will continue to explode too.

It's hard to believe. But in 5 years or so, Mahomes may be like the 7th or 8th highest paid QB. That's not necessarily due to there being 6 or 7 better QB's. That's just the market. His salary will seem "Pedestrian".

Actually, they rebuilt twice in that time period.

 

[NFL Mystique]

Actually, they rebuilt twice in that time period.

They won the division from 03-07, and 09-19.

Brady's prime years.

Which years they rebuild?

Note: 2002 they barely missed the postseason. And Brady was hurt in 08.

 

[rochrist]

They won the division from 03-07, and 09-19.

Brady's prime years.

Which years they rebuild?

Note: 2002 they barely missed the postseason. And Brady was hurt in 08.

I missed Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison and Law on the 2018 team. I missed Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Givens, David Patton, Daniel Graham, Matt Light, Joe Andruzzi, Dan Koppen, Stephen Neal, Ty Warren, Richard Seymour, Willie McGinest and Ted Johnson on the 2018 team.

Winning the division does NOT mean you didn't rebuild. Replacing every freaking player other than QB DOES.

 

[crawhammer]

If "Cap Hell" was the reason for the stunning inactivity of the team then it's their own fault for creating the financial restraints. But I'm not buying it because there are endless ways of creating space to be active in free agency. The Mason trade being one example... usually you'll see a corresponding move on the other end of something like that. Otherwise you got rid of your best offensive lineman for absolutely no reason.

 

[RIpats88]

If "Cap Hell" was the reason for the stunning inactivity of the team then it's their own fault for creating the financial restraints. But I'm not buying it because there are endless ways of creating space to be active in free agency. The Mason trade being one example... usually you'll see a corresponding move on the other end of something like that. Otherwise you got rid of your best offensive lineman for absolutely no reason.

That's what doesn't make sense. Unless Kraft doesn't want to spend "real money" what's the point of trading mason for peanuts and creating a hole on your roster.

Even the $16mill for JC Jackson a young good CB isn't a bad amount. But we pay mccourty 9million?

I'd much rather have mason or JC Jackson than Mccourty

 

[Triumph]

The Saints were supposed to be in Cap hell this year and somehow got out of it without any cuts. So being cap cost conscious and waiting for the rest of the league to get into cap hell and have to cut or not resign really good players seems like a fools errand. I guess it happens occasionally, but not often.

The Saints dont have a QB.

Tamson Hill is it. Winston is a UFA. They are talking with Deshawn Watsons people.

Converting money owed on this years cap into signing bonus is essentially refinancing to get a lower payment. The money is still owed and in some cases you're digging a deeper financial hole. Salary isnt guaranteed unless stipulated. Salary converted to signing bonus is guaranteed. NFL teams structure contracts with high salaries so they can convert or cut the player moving his salary off the books.

Cap hell is for real. Remember when the Colts couldn't afford a defense because Payton Manning hogged up all the cap space? The same thing happened to the **** Vermeil KC Chiefs when they had no cap to man the defense with good players.

 

[Triumph]

That's what doesn't make sense. Unless Kraft doesn't want to spend "real money" what's the point of trading mason for peanuts and creating a hole on your roster.

Even the $16mill for JC Jackson a young good CB isn't a bad amount. But we pay mccourty 9million?

I'd much rather have mason or JC Jackson than Mccourty

Jagahlor counts for 10 million.

Id rather have Chad Jackson back.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

If "Cap Hell" was the reason for the stunning inactivity of the team then it's their own fault for creating the financial restraints. But I'm not buying it because there are endless ways of creating space to be active in free agency. The Mason trade being one example... usually you'll see a corresponding move on the other end of something like that. Otherwise you got rid of your best offensive lineman for absolutely no reason.

For Mason, the Pats judged that getting a 5th + $7m of cap relief this year + $9m of cap relief next year was a good move for them. I wouldn't 2nd guess that. As for letting our best corner walk at 26 years old, that we presumably could've resigned for what the Chargers paid him (under $17m/yr), that's more debatable for sure.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

I cancelled my subscription to them.

The question will be asked why I chose a subscription in the first place. Well I figured I need to know as much as possible about the Patriots in order to engage in discussions. Unfortunately I picked the wrong guys to listen too.

They are worse than sports dudes in other tough markets like Philly, NY, and Chicago. Felger tried to make the argument that winning the SB in 2018 wasn't that great because the Patriots struggled most of the year. Bittersweet he said.

I've never seen two guys show as much disrespect to a first class organization as these guys. You'd think the Patriots were the Browns the way they talk.

while making money off of the very organization they disrespect

They're disgusting

 

[skinnydog]

The Saints dont have a QB.

Tamson Hill is it. Winston is a UFA. They are talking with Deshawn Watsons people.

Converting money owed on this years cap into signing bonus is essentially refinancing to get a lower payment. The money is still owed and in some cases you're digging a deeper financial hole. Salary isnt guaranteed unless stipulated. Salary converted to signing bonus is guaranteed. NFL teams structure contracts with high salaries so they can convert or cut the player moving his salary off the books.

Cap hell is for real. Remember when the Colts couldn't afford a defense because Payton Manning hogged up all the cap space? The same thing happened to the **** Vermeil KC Chiefs when they had no cap to man the defense with good players.

Seems like there's a lot more cap manipulation now than even 5-10m years ago. Also, my point was very recently the Saints were about 60 million over the cap and now they are under without any significant cuts. Yeah, they don't have a lot of flexibility, but they didn't have to release a boatload of good players to get under the cap.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

The Patriots pretty much spend to the cap limit every year. Kraft's role as a spender or cheap sob is limited to cash flow, meaning that the total cost of these contracts is the same whether there's a bonus or not, it's just a matter of having to come up with some of the cash sooner than planned. Last year he said on the record that he had to come up with $60m cash (or whatever the FA bonuses came to), as if that were a big deal or hardship which kind of surprised me. Maybe he was just trying to sound important, that it takes a lot of business acumen or something. But if his team is worth billions, why doesn't he just have a line of credit with a bank for when he needs to come up with bonuses?

 

[crawhammer]

For Mason, the Pats judged that getting a 5th + $7m of cap relief this year + $9m of cap relief next year was a good move for them. I wouldn't 2nd guess that. As for letting our best corner walk at 26 years old, that we presumably could've resigned for what the Chargers paid him (under $17m/yr), that's more debatable for sure.

I don't care about the money the team saves unless they're putting it into retaining a player more valuable than Mason (like Jackson) or signing a new player who again would be more valuable than Mason. So far the only thing trading Mason accomplished was making the o-line worse. You're not getting a borderline pro bowl guard in the 5th round either.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I don't care about the money the team saves unless they're putting it into retaining a player more valuable than Mason (like Jackson) or signing a new player who again would be more valuable than Mason. So far the only thing trading Mason accomplished was making the o-line worse. You're not getting a borderline pro bowl guard in the 5th round either.

The cap savings is an integral part of the move. With that savings, they can sign a good player. The 5th isn't whey they traded him.

 

[Drunken Cicerone]

They paid alot of FA's during Brady's tenure. Moss. Welker. Revis. Gilmore. I'm probably missing some guys

Welker and Miss were both trades

 

[Drunken Cicerone]

Patriots always pretended to be smarter than everybody by buying scrap heap guys. To Bills credit some guys who were borderline starters or considered easily replaceable turned out to have productive careers here.

I honestly think Belichick has been able to out coach some bad decisions, and it certainly didn’t hurt having Brady

The fact he almost had a .500 with the Newton team it’s amazing. That could have been a 4 win team easy