J.C. Jackson - "It's time to get Mr. INT paid."

[zipster9]

He's walking... Rebuilding again...

 

[crawhammer]

Anyone care to explain how the Patriots will be replacing Jackson? Are we counting on another UDFA? Not good enough. Jackson's a worthy PB CB, you need players like that, especially in today's NFL. The AFC is littered with young elite(ish) quarterbacks and our division might have the best.

 

[amfootball]

Anyone care to explain how the Patriots will be replacing Jackson? Are we counting on another UDFA? Not good enough. Jackson's a worthy PB CB, you need players like that, especially in today's NFL. The AFC is littered with young elite(ish) quarterbacks and our division might have the best.

We are looking at a multi year rebuild. Paramount to the success of the rebuild will be the drafting starting this season and the next two seasons. It stinks because we have Mac on his rookie deal but we are really not in a position to take advantage of that. Not to mention the fact that all of our coaches have pretty much left leaving huge holes for Bill to sort out. In other words, get yourself strapped in, it’s going to be a long ride back to contention.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Anyone care to explain how the Patriots will be replacing Jackson? Are we counting on another UDFA? Not good enough. Jackson's a worthy PB CB, you need players like that, especially in today's NFL. The AFC is littered with young elite(ish) quarterbacks and our division might have the best.

OK, I'll bite. Replacing a single player like for like is not the Patriots way of doing business. The team is formed by adding pieces where the contract value is assessed vs. contribution on the field. If the team does not think that JC is worth Gilmore money based on performance, then the money will be invested elsewhere. I am not sure that JC is worth a top level contract, I do know that over paying because he will not be easy to replace is something that the Jets would do.

 

[crawhammer]

We are looking at a multi year rebuild. Paramount to the success of the rebuild will be the drafting starting this season and the next two seasons. It stinks because we have Mac on his rookie deal but we are really not in a position to take advantage of that. Not to mention the fact that all of our coaches have pretty much left leaving huge holes for Bill to sort out. In other words, get yourself strapped in, it’s going to be a long ride back to contention.

Is Belichick strapping himself in too? Because he's 3 weeks shy of age 70. This is the same guy who said he won't be coaching into his 70s like Marv Levy, who was 72 when he retired. I don't think Belichick has a multiple-year rebuild left in him. They threw the kitchen sink at the roster last offseason and lost one less game than the season prior which was a sh**show. I can't believe Belichick (and more importantly the Krafts) thought after the unprecedented spending of last offseason that they would yet still be looking at a multi-year rebuild.

OK, I'll bite. Replacing a single player like for like is not the Patriots way of doing business. The team is formed by adding pieces where the contract value is assessed vs. contribution on the field. If the team does not think that JC is worth Gilmore money based on performance, then the money will be invested elsewhere. I am not sure that JC is worth a top level contract, I do know that over paying because he will not be easy to replace is something that the Jets would do.

Ok then your defense is probably going to be worse. Since when did Jackson just not have an excellent season? He made Gilmore expendable. But now he's expendable too because of some nebulous value scale? The all-time elite quarterback isn't there anymore to compensate for all the holes in the roster. You can't afford to lose Jackson when it comes to wins vs losses.

 

[*ChungFu*]

Anyone care to explain how the Patriots will be replacing Jackson? Are we counting on another UDFA? Not good enough. Jackson's a worthy PB CB, you need players like that, especially in today's NFL. The AFC is littered with young elite(ish) quarterbacks and our division might have the best.

I'd love to be able to say a stronger pass rush, but that is equally lacking at the moment.

 

[PWRxWLF]

I know it hasn’t happened yet, but omfg does the thought of getting nothing but a comp pick for JC really grind my gears. The handling of the Gilmore situation was bad enough. When the team has assets, they’ve gotta get back to doing a good job on getting a return. Makes it a bit easier to swing and miss on some of those draft picks…

Bill needs to do a massive overhaul of the front 7. It’ll make things so much easier for the secondary.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Ok then your defense is probably going to be worse. Since when did Jackson just not have an excellent season? He made Gilmore expendable. But now he's expendable too because of some nebulous value scale? The all-time elite quarterback isn't there anymore to compensate for all the holes in the roster. You can't afford to lose Jackson when it comes to wins vs losses

WTF, why does everything have to revolve around a player who is no longer with the team? TB12 would not have made the team a super bowl contender, that is why he left. JC did not make Gilmore expendable, Gilmore's injuries made him no longer an elite player that deserves top money. As many other posters have pointed out, last years D that included JC, did not have what it takes when it counted. Assuming JC is not resigned, there will be $17m available for LB's or D-line to improve the pass rush or add weapons on offense. How that works out in terms of wins and losses is unknown at this point.

 

[crawhammer]

WTF, why does everything have to revolve around a player who is no longer with the team? TB12 would not have made the team a super bowl contender, that is why he left.

They would have won the division both seasons and would been a SB contender this season. Did you the watch the SB?... who wanted to lose more? Brady on virtually every other AFC team would have been better than Cincinnati.

My point however was you're not as good at quarterback as you once were (for nearly 20 years) so you will need to be better in other areas. Makes perfect sense.

JC did not make Gilmore expendable, Gilmore's injuries made him no longer an elite player that deserves top money. As many other posters have pointed out, last years D that included JC, did not have what it takes when it counted. Assuming JC is not resigned, there will be $17m available for LB's or D-line to improve the pass rush or add weapons on offense. How that works out in terms of wins and losses is unknown at this point.

Jackson is at least a very good CB, which is extremely important, so unless you replace him with another CB of equal capability, you're going to be weaker at that position. There's no guarantee spending that money elsewhere will make you better at those other positions whereas you know Jackson keeps you at least very good at that primary CB spot.

 

[venecol]

Money issues aside, I'm starting to wonder if there was some friction between JC and the D coaches. JC's comments about the Pats not wanting him back seem more telling now. The secondary depth was already thin w/ JC on the roster. Now, it's a joke. Having Jones / Mills as your top CBs is troubling.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Money issues aside, I'm starting to wonder if there was some friction between JC and the D coaches. JC's comments about the Pats not wanting him back seem more telling now. The secondary depth was already thin w/ JC on the roster. Now, it's a joke. Having Jones / Mills as your top CBs is troubling.

Its troubling but the immediate fix is pass rush and stopping the run. I dont think there is one cb in this draft that is going to replace JC production year one. Eventually it is a possibility but it will be a lot of luck if they do end up going cb in round 1 and he produces at an elite level.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Money issues aside, I'm starting to wonder if there was some friction between JC and the D coaches. JC's comments about the Pats not wanting him back seem more telling now. The secondary depth was already thin w/ JC on the roster. Now, it's a joke. Having Jones / Mills as your top CBs is troubling.

I think what he means is that they haven’t reached out to try to retain him before FA.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Its troubling but the immediate fix is pass rush and stopping the run. I dont think there is one cb in this draft that is going to replace JC production year one. Eventually it is a possibility but it will be a lot of luck if they do end up going cb in round 1 and he produces at an elite level.

Yup, I hope the front 7 is addressed first no matter what happens with JC.

 

[venecol]

I think what he means is that they haven’t reached out to try to retain him before FA.

Sure but why?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Sure but why?

That’s a good question.

 

[Wozzy]

They stayed relevant for two decades because they had the GOAT QB.

Stats say otherwise, but keep ignoring Ty Law’s struggles against the best. He also had many days where JAG’s had career days. He had two good years under Bill out of 4 1/2 years until he got injured in 2004. Had frequent no shows during the Carroll years.

Jalen Ramsey isn’t even worth Jalen Ramsey money. He got roasted in 4 out their 5 last games which includes the playoffs. JC was better than him this year.

CB’s are overpaid, but the market is the market and that’s why he’s asking for that ridiculous amount.

The Saints had Drew Brees, Packers Aaron Roger etc and they all had down years. The Pats didn’t because of how they handled the cap. The Pats won 3 rings when Brady was paid like a 6th round rookie, they won 3 more when he took a little less and the team borrowed against future cap to add at the trade deadline, went all in to win. In the decade in between when Tom was the among the highest paid in the league they were like every other team… close but no cigar.

Ty Law is in the HOF, he was a shutdown CB. Everyone gets beat or has a bad game, comparing UDFA Jackson to 1st round pick Law or Gilmore is a joke. Good player, not top of the market type player.

Chandler Jones was the best edge player in the league when they traded him, he wanted 100 million and nearly got it… the Pats would have been dumb to give it to him. “Great” has nothing to do with it, at some point overpaying is just overpaying.

 

[Wozzy]

2 bidding wars

ONE
between Jackson and the patriots

TWO
among other teams

there is no three, unless Jackson fails to get a decent/acceptable deal. Otherwise, there is no reason to come crawling back.

Nobody asking for 60-70 million guaranteed is “crawling” anywhere.

The Pats tell free agents to get the best deal they can and come back to see if they can match. This is common practice, it’s what they did with Hightower, Thuney and others.

This is negotiations, pride has nothing to do with it. Feelings mean dck in relation to millions of dollars.

 

[venecol]

The Saints had Drew Brees, Packers Aaron Roger etc and they all had down years. The Pats didn’t because of how they handled the cap. The Pats won 3 rings when Brady was paid like a 6th round rookie, they won 3 more when he took a little less and the team borrowed against future cap to add at the trade deadline, went all in to win. In the decade in between when Tom was the among the highest paid in the league they were like every other team… close but no cigar.

You keep saying this over and over. Let me ask you something. Do you think it's a coincidence that Belichick's teams as a HC have never won a division (0 for 9) w/o Brady as the starting QB? Or is it just bad luck?

CLE: 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 4th
NE: 5th, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd.

 

[mgteich]

Nobody asking for 60-70 million guaranteed is “crawling” anywhere.

The Pats tell free agents to get the best deal they can and come back to see if they can match. This is common practice, it’s what they did with Hightower, Thuney and others.

This is negotiations, pride has nothing to do with it. Feelings mean dck in relation to millions of dollars.

Yes, it is indeed common practice for the patriots to ask a player to give the team one last chance if they sign a contract elsewhere. That in NO way means that the player is anyway obligated to take a similar deal from the patriots, or even a higher deal from the patriots.

And yes, most agents don't mind give the team that courtesy, even if there is ZERO chance of the player signing with them.

 

[mgteich]

Nobody asking for 60-70 million guaranteed is “crawling” anywhere.

The Pats tell free agents to get the best deal they can and come back to see if they can match. This is common practice, it’s what they did with Hightower, Thuney and others.

This is negotiations, pride has nothing to do with it. Feelings mean dck in relation to millions of dollars.

What you don't seem is to understand is that the team cannot TELL free agents what to do. There is little reason for most to consider a serious counteroffer from the patriots.

Obviously, if Jackson gets what he wants or close, there is no reason to come back to the patriots. And yes, it is "crawling" if Jackson can't get what he wants elsewhere, and seriously then wants the patriots to give him a deal.
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Much can happen in a week, but if Jackson is a free agent, we (as fans) should just then consider him gone. The patriots have ZERO intention of signing the #2 free agent in the NFL once they allow him to be a free agent.